INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[shekhar]

@Pulkit sir,

1 Stock A modular stock which is Adjustable at different positions,side folding,can be fired from folded position ,has a recoil compensation system which reduce the felt recoil ,adjustable cheek rest etc etc.

2 Handguard A light weight modular handguard with detachable P rail on upside and down ,and slot rail sections in sides where more rails can be added as per need.This will help to mount multiple sights,laser ,fore grip,UGBL and various other accessories as per need.

3 Transparent magazine

The final product will look like this

Really...& how do u know that exactly

 

[ghost]

Really...& how do u know that exactly

Sir,

Little knowledge,little common sense ,and some of my personal preference .Keep your mind ,eyes and ear open . It's not rocket science to know that 1500cc car will be faster than 800cc car ,same way adjustable stock provide you better options in place of a rigid stock is not a big revelation ,just like a hand guard which has more rails provide you better option to mount accessories in place of one with none is easy to understand .Still if you have other views post your detailed view instead of asking about credentials " exactly " .These are my views you have your brain to analyze them and agree and disagree as per your wish.

Educate me I am always open to learn.

 

[ghost]

I was watching an interview of Baba kalyani,he is a passionate,visionary and go getter. I was impressed by his attitude and I am sure if given a chance will develop a world class assault rifle in one year, just like he has developed howitzer .He has the zeal and dream to do big things .Indian govt better provide incentive to Indian private defense companies, if it is serious in manufacturing and exporting arms .Over dependence on drdo and ofb will not get us where we dream to be in defense manufacturing. A good rifle will not only full fill our armed forces need but we can export it to various African,middle east and Asian countries .It's my dream to see at least 10 to 15 countries army using Indian assault rifle as their standard issue.Time frame is also one of the biggest concern in arde, they develop, develop more and then develop some more in endless time cycle, take the case of MSMC or JVPC as it is being called now ,I have given hope of it ever being seen in field deployment.

 

[Blood+]

I was watching an interview of Baba kalyani,he is a passionate,visionary and go getter. I was impressed by his attitude and I am sure if given a chance will develop a world class assault rifle in one year, just like he has developed howitzer ..

Totally wrong info,you better check your sources again on this mate.The Kalyani did not develop shit,their Bharat 52 is nothing other than a license assembled version of the GC 45 ,developed by a Canadian Jerald Bull's company,Space Research Corporation,way back in the 70s.

 

[Hari Sud]

Totally wrong info,you better check your sources again on this mate.The Kalyani did not develop shit,their Bharat 52 is nothing other than a license assembled version of the GC 45 ,developed by a Canadian Jerald Bull's company,Space Research Corporation,way back in the 70s.

I agree everything you said except that Kalyani gun to be produced in India is not "licensed assembled version". Kalyani or India do not owe any license fees to anybody. They have relocated the factory which produced the GC-45 of seventies design in Germany/Austria to India and have added their own innovations or purchased electronics and sighting mechanisms etc. from elsewhere and updated it to look most upto date.

The issue here is manufacturing capabIlity, which nobody in India had until BOFOR gun design surfaced three years back. Even that information was insufficient to produce a gun barrel and other electronics. Only time will tell whether Indian made BOFOR gun barrel will survive the rigours of war, a few firings aside.

Now Kalyani with confidence say that they have the know how and machine tools to do it.

 

[Blood+]

I agree everything you said except that Kalyani gun to be produced in India is not "licensed assembled version". Kalyani or India do not owe any license fees to anybody. They have relocated the factory which produced the GC-45 of seventies design in Germany/Austria to India and have added their own innovations or purchased electronics and sighting mechanisms etc. from elsewhere and updated it to look most upto date.

The issue here is manufacturing capabIlity, which nobody in India had until BOFOR gun design surfaced three years back. Even that information was insufficient to produce a gun barrel and other electronics. Only time will tell whether Indian made BOFOR gun barrel will survive the rigours of war, a few firings aside.

Now Kalyani with confidence say that they have the know how and machine tools to do it.

Sorry about that part.What I meant was that it was not their development to be honest.And the gun barrel of the FH 77B02 (aka Dhanush) was obtained from Soltam,as a part of the Metamorphosis project.So the barrel will hold,that's for sure.

 

[Shadow]

Don't know whether this video was posted before.The corner shot derivative of DRDO seems to be a bit bulky.

 

[Shaitan]

ARDE JVPV Prototype

ARDE MCIWS Prototype

ARDE MCIWS & Cornershot Prototypes

ARDE Cornshot Prototype

 

[Shaitan]

ARDE MCIWS Prototype

ARDE MSMC/JVPC

 

[tejas warrior]

Build quality of MCIWS looks very good compared to Excalibur. How's was performance of these in field ? Any update if they have been tested by Army ?

 

[ezsasa]

^^^^^^^
i am pretty sure this ARDE corner shot prototype version(as per the GIF above) will never go into production, There seems to too many things wrong with it. For a start both the camera and LCD screen is over size.

What is the deal with the wire on both MSMC and JVPC? Is this standard with similar accessories?

 

[pmaitra]

Where are those constantly complaining about DRDO's quality? Moreover, importantly, where is he who keeps posting videos of Dimple Kapadia?

 

[Shaitan]

She is so purrrddyyyy

 

[pmaitra]

She is so purrrddyyyy

Looking at your smileys, I am reminded of an old proverb: "Naach na jaane, angan tera."

 

[SafedSagar]

Hmmm.... not that different unlike JVPC/MSMC. The production quality looks fab tho. But i still hate the buttstock lol.

 

[ghost]

Totally wrong info,you better check your sources again on this mate.The Kalyani did not develop shit,their Bharat 52 is nothing other than a license assembled version of the GC 45 ,developed by a Canadian Jerald Bull's company,Space Research Corporation,way back in the 70s.

What i meant from developing was producing the gun in India by themselves instead of assembling it. Of course in their light howitzer the technology of soft recoil is from US, but the actual manufacturing ,forging of special steel all have been done by them in India. In the beginning all pvt firms will take help of technologies from abroad but once they get hold of technology ,they are ready for further R&D of their own, manufacturing and development of their own.

Regarding assault rifle I am confused on what the heck is going on!we have got a good product in form of mciws ,why don't army work on it along with arde ?army should tell them about the changes they wish after testing the product and get a final product ready for large scale manufacturing within one year.Why are there news of excalibur mk2 or new tender for assault rifle.What is going on ?Indian army tend to complicate things when it comes to procurement.

 

[Shaitan]

Col ( Retd ) Danvir Singh reviewing DRDO's ARDE Multi Caliber Indian Weapon System ( MCIWS) developed by ARDE that was unveiled last year in defencexpo .

Some differences from these prototypes. Like non transparent mag, fixed iron sight, straight gas block, and the barrel is further modified.

 

[pmaitra]

What i meant from developing was producing the gun in India by themselves instead of assembling it. Of course in their light howitzer the technology of soft recoil is from US, but the actual manufacturing ,forging of special steel all have been done by them in India. In the beginning all pvt firms will take help of technologies from abroad but once they get hold of technology ,they are ready for further R&D of their own, manufacturing and development of their own.

Regarding assault rifle I am confused on what the heck is going on!we have got a good product in form of mciws ,why don't army work on it along with arde ?army should tell them about the changes they wish after testing the product and get a final product ready for large scale manufacturing within one year.Why are there news of excalibur mk2 or new tender for assault rifle.What is going on ?Indian army tend to complicate things when it comes to procurement.

I absolutely love the MCIWS. The only thing here is, I like it because it looks cool—tacticool. I just don't know how reliable it is. I would prefer a rifle that works well without being a showpiece (like the INSAS, although the newer models look very good) than a rifle that looks like a supermodel but flounders. Let them perfect it. I wish ARDE all the best.

 

[ghost]

I absolutely love the MCIWS. The only thing here is, I like it because it looks cool—tacticool. I just don't know how reliable it is. I would prefer a rifle that works well without being a showpiece (like the INSAS, although the newer models look very good) than a rifle that looks like a supermodel but flounders. Let them perfect it. I wish ARDE all the best.

Sir,

When we talk about assault rifle looks it is all about design ,finish and materials used in its manufacturing.manufacturing. Of-course reliability and internal mechanism is of utmost importance as in the end it has to fire to kill.

Regarding Insas if I would sum total all that has been said by its end user it will equal to average.

"INSAS family which was considered to be a poor demonstration of research and production by our DRDO and the Ordinance Factories, so much so for developing our indigenous capabilities. "

Danvir Singh
Associate Editor, Indian Defence Review, former Commanding Officer, 9 Sikh LI .(has combat experience)

Whatever Insas might be it is has served enough .Time has come for evolution of Insas.

Design ,fit and finish of rifle shows how much attention and skill have gone into manufacturing the rifle ,poor fit and finish raises doubt about the internals to be of the same standard,it just reflect on professionalism and craftsmanship of the manufacturer.Hence when we see lettering as if scratched by hands ,it reflects poorly on the craftsmanship and attention paid to detail by the manufacturer.

"The upper hand guard. This is a flimsy piece of plastic thats always getting lost or breaking in two".As per a reviewer of the weapon.


When I say MCIWS seem like a good product ,I say by what I see and hoping internals to be better than Insas .It comes from the developers of Insas , as per law of evolution it should be better than what its predecessor were.

Let's see:

1 Stock

Insas has a fixed traditional stock. .

MCIWS has a collapsible telescopic stock.Every soldier have different body build and preference, he can adjust the rifle stock as per his requirement .It also make it easier to transport rifle or fight in CQB by adjusting stock.Bullet proof vest may also necessitate the adjustment of the length of pull on your rifle stock. Having anywhere from 1/2 ” to 2″ of extra thickness alters how you mount your rifle.


2 Receiver

Insas has a stamped steel receiver.

MCIWS has a milled aluminium receiver .It is created from a single piece of high quality aluminum alloy that is lighter than steel but has a very high tensile strength. The result is a very light component, that has no weak points and is as strong as steel. That means the rifle will be lighter and easier to shoot.

Another advantage of aluminum over stamped steel is ,it is much more resistant to rust and corrosion than steel components. Aluminum forms its own oxide layer that protects it from further oxidation and corrosion in almost all environments, unlike steel and other types of metal that are prone to rust and other types of corrosion and deteriorate over time. The combination of high tensile strength, resistance to rust and corrosion and virtually no weak points caused by the manufacturing process makes MCIWS receiver superior to its traditionally built steel counterparts.

A properly manufactured MILLED receiver of MCIWS is superior in all aspects to a stamped receiver of Insas, for the following reasons:

a. Rigidity. It doesn’t get any more rigid than this.
b. Strength. Considerably more tensile, shear, cross stress strength. Milled, forged steel is just plain stronger and more durable than any stamped assembly (regardless of how “thick” the stamping is).
c. Part/action alignment. The part and action alignment is consistent throughout the life cycle of the rifle. Being milled from one piece, there is nothing in the frame to loosen or shift out of alignment.
d. Much more stable platform. Fixed mating surfaces ensure alignment and function.
e. Longer service life. Stronger, more rigid, consistently aligned frame retards part wear and extends service life of action parts.

3 Magazine well

Insas magazine well is open.

MCIWS magazine well is a flared one ,which helps in fast magazine insertions,It makes
the reloading more easier and faster specially at times of stress.It also protect from dust getting into magazine well.It also act as a forward balanced grip for the shooter,particularly at times when hand guard becomes hot.

4 Picatinny rails

In Insas it is generally missing ,sometimes a small rail is attached to receiver which can hold only one attachment.

MCIWS has multiple picatinny rails which allow to customize your rifle as per the mission requirement.Right from laser,magnifiers,reflex sight to vertical foregrip ,light etc.


5 Modular

Insas is not modular

MCIWS can be modified as per individual need right from caliber to barrel length ,to length of stock.

6 Ambidextrous

Insas is not ambidextrous.

MCIWS has ambidextrous cocking,change lever and magazine release.

7 length

Insas 960 mm

MCIWS less than 910mm (improved version seem to be much more smaller with shorter barrel.

8 Weight

Insas 4.15kg (without magazine)

MCIWS Less than 3.4 kg(without magazine)

9 Effective range

Insas 400m

MCIWS 500m


10 Mode of fire

Insas single and burst

MCIWS single and automatic:I had read a book by a us navy seal from team 6 (most elite),he said you very rarely fire on auto, but still there are certain circumstances in which full auto is required,hence it is necessary there should be full auto option on a rifle.


In today's battlefield firefight can take place anywhere ,jungle,plain,open,built up areas ,cqb etc Insas with its weight and outdated design is not fit to maneuver in all fields .Firefight does not happen at place of our choice ,hence we need a Versatile weapon like MCIWS which is lighter ,stronger,rugged, have better ergonomics,ease in reflex shooting under pressure,better build quality and which can adapt to every situation and scenario which a soldier might face due to its modular and ease of customization.


Time has changed and we should better change along with it.

See what Russian used to propgate:

But they also realized the importance of change from field experience and now:

Russian soldier AK.


I know a bullet irrespective of which weapon it is fired will do the same damage but you can't deny the advantages of a modern rifle.


As much as internal mechanism do,the outer design of TAVOR also plays a big part in making it such a hit. it's not because it looks cool that's a bonus but because it makes handling ,maneuverability and reflex shooting so much simple and easy due to its ergonomic design.

"looking good is not bad ,however if you have to look bad then it better be badass"


Perfect examples of Looks,performance,reliability packed into one.

 

[pmaitra]

@ghost, why are you posting a ten year old prototype when there are plenty of pictures of newer INSAS rifles that look much better?

What's wrong with fit and finish here?

Tell me, in what way does this look any worse than the other examples you have posted?