INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[sydsnyper]

It probably is because the INSAS does not have full-auto which does not help in spray and suppress roles.....

OR they have not been issued the 1B uphraded versions yet.

What are your thoughts...

@Ray sir & @Kunal Biswas sir....please comment

New Delhi: CRPF, which is deployed for anti- Naxal operations, has decided to shun its standard weapon of combat, the indigenous INSAS rifle, and henceforth arm its troops exclusively with the AK series of assault rifles.
The force has also sought to procure 20,000 new AK series rifles for its troops deployed in the Left Wing Extremism (LWE) affected areas in various states and counter-insurgency theatres in the North-East after it found that the INSAS rifle was not proving to be as "operationally suitable" as the Russian made AK-47 and -56 series of combat rifles.
The country's largest paramilitary force, with its three lakh personnel, is now planning to reduce the numbers of INSAS rifles in its armoury after a technical and scientific comparison with the sophisticated AK rifles found that the latter was more effective.
Field commanders of the force deployed in the anti-Naxal operations grid said they were increasingly sending the INSAS to the weapon repairs store of the force.

The Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) rifle has been the primary weapon of the force for a number of years now and it is even relied upon by the Indian Army for use by its troops in various combat theatres.
The INSAS was developed for the first time in late 1980s by the Ordnance Factories Board (OFB) for aid of the Indian infantry forces.
"INSAS was never the preferred weapon for us in operational areas like in the Left Wing Extremism theatre. We have found that our men are more confident with the AK series rifles," Central Reserve Police Force chief Dilip Trivedi told PTI.
The Director General, however, said INSAS will continue to remain in the force as CRPF has a multi-faceted role in the internal security domain of the country which includes dealing with law and order problems and conduct of elections among others.

Anti-Naxal ops: CRPF prefers AK rifles to INSAS, bulk purchase on cards

 

[Kunal Biswas]

AK is preferred coz IA and other forces lack good Carbine, AK solves this problem as its shorter and has full auto capability for spare and pray tactics ..

AK comes between somewhere INSAS and a Carbine, INSAS 1B1 is more a Rifle for fighting more of a conventional war ..

Though when it comes to medium and longer ranges over CT area INSAS are preferred, That is why a Unit over CT area have both firearms ..

 

[sbm]

Kunal, would appreciate your input in dealing with the issues raised in this article on an INSAS hating blog:

India’s Prototype MCIWS Rifle In Detail - The Firearm Blog

 

[cobra commando]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I have pointed out such errors long time back in previous INSAS threads also, I won`t participate in blogs or some Fb pages ..

Still if you have some points, Do ask here ..

India's Prototype MCIWS Rifle In Detail - The Firearm Blog

 

[Ray]

It probably is because the INSAS does not have full-auto which does not help in spray and suppress roles.....

OR they have not been issued the 1B uphraded versions yet.

What are your thoughts...

@Ray sir & @Kunal Biswas sir....please comment

Full auto is not advocated in the IA since it goes contrary to the dictum = Ek Goli, Ek Dushan and thus conservation of ammunition..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

firearm blog is just a propoganda tool and the commments are pure filth.anyways any news about trials and production of mciws

 

[sbm]

My question is about the accuracy and entry of dirt.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A average solider in IA can make a nice grouping with 1B1 using Iron sight from a distance of 150mts and beyond if one is good with his skills ..

From a distance of 200ms

From a distance of 280ms

People do better ..

=============================

If one maintain his rifle well over field, His rifle should be working just fine, Maintaining a 1B1 over field takes 15 - 20mins including oiling and cleaning of almost every major part ..

My question is about the accuracy and entry of dirt.

 

[sbm]

Thanks for that. I was asking more about the MCIWS design. To my thinking accuracy would be improved. But does the design offer a bit too much opportunity for the entry of dirt ?

No matter how many times I hear it, I still cannot fathom the hatred some commentators have for INSAS. Half-truths and incidents are overblown and turn into a nasty set of comments for a weapon that has had no more problems than the M-16 and SA-80 and has had a decent production run with relatively few incidents.

 

[hitesh]

Thanks for that. I was asking more about the MCIWS design. To my thinking accuracy would be improved. But does the design offer a bit too much opportunity for the entry of dirt ?

No matter how many times I hear it, I still cannot fathom the hatred some commentators have for INSAS. Half-truths and incidents are overblown and turn into a nasty set of comments for a weapon that has had no more problems than the M-16 and SA-80 and has had a decent production run with relatively few incidents.

MCIWS uses same barrel as of INSAS so i don't see improvement of accuracy compared to INSAS but i have concern regarding the heating up of barrel as INSAS was designed as semi auto so the barrel thickness was made accordingly but when the same barrel is firing in full auto them surely it will cause trouble .

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

The heavier barrel has less vibration, so the accuracy, at least in theory, will be better than a thinner barrel. For most shooters, this is purely academic. but Light barrels shoot just as accurately as heavy barrels. but when it comes to heating issues Heavy barrels take longer to heat up

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Using full auto in any AR without a Heavy barrel would lead to malfunction, TAR-21 can only shoot no more than 60 rnds continuously at full auto after it needs cooling, If one kept on firing the barrel would be Cheery red hot even bend ..

MCIWS uses same barrel as of INSAS so i don't see improvement of accuracy compared to INSAS but i have concern regarding the heating up of barrel as INSAS was designed as semi auto so the barrel thickness was made accordingly but when the same barrel is firing in full auto them surely it will cause trouble .

 

[Twinblade]

Has anyone seen ARDE's 40mm UBGL attached to an in service AKM ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I think its posted here only ..

 

[hitesh]

Using full auto in any AR without a Heavy barrel would lead to malfunction, TAR-21 can only shoot no more than 60 rnds continuously at full auto after it needs cooling, If one kept on firing the barrel would be Cheery red hot even bend ..

TAR 21

INSAS

M14

INSAS LMG

Among all the INSAS seems to have the thinnest barrel among all ,if TAR21 supports only 60 rounds in full auto then the barrel that has taken from insas into MCWIS would surely fail in few rounds of firing in full auto ,did the manufacturer took this thing into account or they just did it deliberately as manufacturing new barrel would involve change in barrel manufacturing process which the gov org are too lazy to implement .I wonder if this gun could pass the IA's field trials as it is intended to replace AK's ,INSAS as a single weapon

 

[abingdonboy]

TAR 21

INSAS

M14

INSAS LMG

Among all the INSAS seems to have the thinnest barrel among all ,if TAR21 supports only 60 rounds in full auto then the barrel that has taken from insas into MCWIS would surely fail in few rounds of firing in full auto ,did the manufacturer took this thing into account or they just did it deliberately as manufacturing new barrel would involve change in barrel manufacturing process which the gov org are too lazy to implement .I wonder if this gun could pass the IA's field trials as it is intended to replace AK's ,INSAS as a single weapon

Your comparison is FAR too simplistic mate. It is not purely about barrel thickness but the type of metals used in the barrel also. The INSAS LMG has the same barrel as the standard INSAS but I know for a fact it can have more than 60 rounds fired on full auto,with only a rest for a mag change, in one go.


Anyway even IF the MCWIS couldn't fire 60 rounds on full auto that is not necessarily a terminal failure. When do you think the IA troops are firing that many rounds on full auto? No professional troops will fire more than 3-4 rounds in one go when engaged in a firefight, most of the time professional soldiers stick to single, well aimed, shots. Even with the AKs the IA troops aren't emptying 2+ mags in one go- what an incredible waste of ammo that would be.

 

[abingdonboy]

Thanks for that. I was asking more about the MCIWS design. To my thinking accuracy would be improved. But does the design offer a bit too much opportunity for the entry of dirt ?

No matter how many times I hear it, I still cannot fathom the hatred some commentators have for INSAS. Half-truths and incidents are overblown and turn into a nasty set of comments for a weapon that has had no more problems than the M-16 and SA-80 and has had a decent production run with relatively few incidents.

The SA-80 was a complete flop when it first entered service, it took a complete overhaul by Heckler and Koch to address the serious issues with the A2 version.

 

[abingdonboy]

Regarding the INSAS UBGL:




Pretty nice vid.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

INSAS so does many other Firearms barrel are made by an Austrian origin barrel making machine with a twist rate of 1 : 7.8 inches, It makes two-three barrel an hour, INSAS Rifle never need to change barrel as during its whole life time it does not wear off so much regardless of thousand of Round fired through its life .. , Indian Metallurgy is better compare to those foreign ..

INSAS and TAR-21 ARs both have 18inch barrel and thickness is same, Though INSAS is barrel is better coz it can shoot at-least 200rnds in cyclic under burst mode, That is a big achievement and many Rifle cannot even do half of it for example G-36 in German Army ..

Among all the INSAS seems to have the thinnest barrel among all ,if TAR21 supports only 60 rounds in full auto then the barrel that has taken from insas into MCWIS would surely fail in few rounds of firing in full auto ,did the manufacturer took this thing into account or they just did it deliberately as manufacturing new barrel would involve change in barrel manufacturing process which the gov org are too lazy to implement .I wonder if this gun could pass the IA's field trials as it is intended to replace AK's ,INSAS as a single weapon

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LMG use 21inch barrel and its thicker and heavy, Where as 1B1 use 18.3inch barrel, Though both share same twist rate ..

Your comparison is FAR too simplistic mate. It is not purely about barrel thickness but the type of metals used in the barrel also. The INSAS LMG has the same barrel as the standard INSAS but I know for a fact it can have more than 60 rounds fired on full auto,with only a rest for a mag change, in one go.