INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

vampyrbladez

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Based on my observations, I believe that given budget and COVID restrictions, Indian Army was given a choice of either a repeat order of Sig 716i or the CAR 816 for FTP.

Indian Army would be fighting professional armies at the border in mountains with LVL III+/IV armor plates.

Thus the .308 steel core round with an AR10 platform for automatic/semi auto fire made sense. The .223 (5.56x45 mm) would not be able to perform this role and since the Negev 7 is also a .308 SAW/LMG being purchased for the Indian Army, the choice was obvious.

With OFB strike, the ARDE carbine will not be selected. I am thinking either GALIL ACE due to the similarity with INSAS or a surprise offering from SSD Defence.
 

Flying Dagger

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Based on my observations, I believe that given budget and COVID restrictions, Indian Army was given a choice of either a repeat order of Sig 716i or the CAR 816 for FTP.

Indian Army would be fighting professional armies at the border in mountains with LVL III+/IV armor plates.

Thus the .308 steel core round with an AR10 platform for automatic/semi auto fire made sense. The .223 (5.56x45 mm) would not be able to perform this role and since the Negev 7 is also a .308 SAW/LMG being purchased for the Indian Army, the choice was obvious.

With OFB strike, the ARDE carbine will not be selected. I am thinking either GALIL ACE due to the similarity with INSAS or a surprise offering from SSD Defence.
If they are going for Galil then the question must be raised why not Galil Ace for AK replacement too ? Infact they have an entire range for diff cal. Round and can even provide barrel with 6.8 if asked for as the army wanted.

And since we already Have Russian Israeli American ARs AKS Negev I think the fourth one should be from a diff country too. 🙂
 

vampyrbladez

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If they are going for Galil then the question must be raised why not Galil Ace for AK replacement too ? Infact they have an entire range for diff cal. Round and can even provide barrel with 6.8 if asked for as the army wanted.

And since we already Have Russian Israeli American ARs AKS Negev I think the fourth one should be from a diff country too. 🙂
India is familiar with AKs and on a per unit cost, the AK is cheaper than the GALIL due to less licensing fees ($1100 vs $1600 for initial batch).

As for 6.8 mm, until the US Army inducts it and NATO also begins standardization, it will be a very uncommon caliber.

Coincidentally, UAE Caracal owned Haenel won the German Army tender for their next generation infantry rifle with the MK556 which is similar to the CAR816. This is a cheaper and slightly more refined variant of the HK416A7.

I really hope that the 4th country is India with Aste Defence and SSS Defence weapons however Indian Babudom aka the cancer of defence procurement has put the entire process in limbo.
 

Flying Dagger

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India is familiar with AKs and on a per unit cost, the AK is cheaper than the GALIL due to less licensing fees ($1100 vs $1600 for initial batch).

As for 6.8 mm, until the US Army inducts it and NATO also begins standardization, it will be a very uncommon caliber.

Coincidentally, UAE Caracal owned Haenel won the German Army tender for their next generation infantry rifle with the MK556 which is similar to the CAR816. This is a cheaper and slightly more refined variant of the HK416A7.

I really hope that the 4th country is India with Aste Defence and SSS Defence weapons however Indian Babudom aka the cancer of defence procurement has put the entire process in limbo.
You sure Galil Carbine was for 1600 ?

Between those who operate Aks would have loved Galil Ace. And we do operate them in small numbers.

Between ARAD and Carmel are new offerings from PLR and need a look. May be we can build our future small arms around them.

Sig had their dealers here the deal was confirmed from the moment go ... Caracal should have been brought through Make in India route for Carbine and Assault rifle both with Full TOT and production facility as good as any western one.
 

ALBY

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That is because of the design of 7.62x54mm which is a rimmed round and also PKM and the way it feeds

on conventional Rimless rounds (e.g. 7.62 NATO, 5.56 NATO) the way it feeds mostly is the forwarding bolt pushes it from back and feeds from front,the rimless round that is (mostly) cylindrical would pass through belt's link and feed directly inside the chamber etc...and if the belt is made of ;disintegrating link; then the emptied link would get detached from rest of the belt as the cartridge holding it all together is now inside chamber,thus a push by feeding mechanism that shifts belt on side to bring next round in feeding way would throw that link out

example being FN MAG, FN M249 etc...

and in case it's regular non-disintegrating link it would be just pushing belt ahead...

While here,in 7.62x54mm rimmed round (and other such rimmed rounds in soviet service) you cannot push the round forward so the way it feeds is, rearward-moving bolt carrier would already have grabbed a round from belt via a grabber-mechanism that would be later put on feeding path,then when it moves forward the round is chambered in link, belt is pushed forward and a fresh round is again grabbed by grabber.

View attachment 59772
View attachment 59771
View attachment 59773

While it is perfectly possible to make a non-disintegrating link belt for even PKM and so, it seems the russians just prefer this way of keeping belt intact rather than loosing it in form of separated links,even with the rimless rounds they just use non-disintegrated linked belts (for eg. RPD which feeds from rimless 7.62x39mm)
Thanks man for the info man.
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Army faces a carbine shortage in Ladakh, seeks urgent supply to aid close combat
The army requires a limited number of close-quarter battle rifles on an immediate basis, given current tensions on the Line of Actual Control (LAC) where troops are deployed at close range and have even engaged in hand-to-hand fighting over the past months.


Sources have told ET that a larger order for over 350,000 close quarter battle carbines has been reserved for the Indian industry but an immediate requirement of 93,895 carbines that has been processed since 2018 is vital for a combative edge.


The army has been without a close-quarter battle weapon for years, with officials saying that regular assault rifles are being used for the role, reducing the operational efficiency of troops. While the weapons are particularly useful in anti-terrorist operations, they also have immense utility in border operations where a clash between troops can take place at close quarters.


Sources said that the army supports initiatives by the private and public sector in developing these weapons in-house and has started engaging with companies for a larger order of 350,000 rifles that will be fully made in India, with options for exports too.


However, this process is likely to take at least two to three years before the local industry can offer viable options, with enough capacity to produce the weapons. “The present and immediate necessity cannot be compromised. The weapons are an absolute immediate requirement and only one-fifth of the total numbers needed are being processed through a fast-track procurement,” officials who did not wish to be named said.


As reported by ET, in a meeting held last week, chaired by the defence secretary, it was decided that plans in the works since 2018 to import a limited number of close quarter battle carbines to meet immediate requirements are to be shelved in favour of a Make-in-India plan. The high-powered Defence Acquisition Council, however, still has to ratify the decision.


The fast-track process initiated in 2018 for 93,895 carbines envisaged a shortened delivery period from an active assembly line. Since no Indian company had a viable option, foreign companies had been chosen for the trial and evaluation process.


Sources said that the capacity to make such weapons is being acquired by Indian companies and over the course of the next 2-3 years options will be available.
 

ALBY

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No Pm Md 63/65 Romanian
I doubt that because only Russians have been sported with the plum/orange mags. Romanian ones comes with steel.mags.Marcos have been using the very same ones from late 80s itself as their standard ARs.So most probably chance is that we might have procured limited numbers of these Aks from Russia in late 80s or early 90s for various Capfs and, state police forces.
 

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