INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[utubekhiladi]

Check,m......... . ....... .........

heavy recoil. completely useless for burst and full auto modes

 

[Lonewarrior]

heavy recoil. completely useless for burst and full auto modes

That is just an usual Kalashnikov, with usual recoil and completely useful for burst and full auto modes.

As of now, no one in this solar system has the technology to lower the recoil and make a Kalashnikov more useful for burst and full auto mode by swapping just the gas tube, handguard, magazine, pistol grip, dust cover and stock.

 

[vishnugupt]

There are many, but as you asked for why. The answer is pretty straightforward.

Small arms are designed by committee and made by government owned entities.

Btw enjoy this video

You are suffering from inferiority complex which need urgent medical treatment. For you everything should should be approved from Gora. You have nothing to do what is our requirements, affordability and how we become self-sufficient. You are a another JNU type person who have habit of ask questions and run away from responsibility.
A recent survey says Indian Armed forces use 65% foreign weapons, Navy 45% , IAF 65% and Army more than 85%. DRDO building Aircraft carrier for Navy whereas Army even import KarlGustaf rocket launcher and its says lot about Army.

 

[Lonewarrior]

You are suffering from inferiority complex which need urgent medical treatment. For you everything should should be approved from Gora. You have nothing to do what is our requirements, affordability and how we become self-sufficient. You are a another JNU type person who have habit of ask questions and run away from responsibility.
A recent survey says Indian Armed forces use 65% foreign weapons, Navy 45% , IAF 65% and Army more than 85%. DRDO building Aircraft carrier for Navy whereas Army even import KarlGustaf rocket launcher and its says lot about Army.

Oh, so now you will talk shit.
Good

Khisiyani billi khamba noche.

 

[utubekhiladi]

That is just an usual Kalashnikov, with usual recoil and completely useful for burst and full auto modes.

As of now, no one in this solar system has the technology to lower the recoil and make a Kalashnikov more useful for burst and full auto mode by swapping just the gas tube, handguard, magazine, pistol grip, dust cover and stock.

i hope you meant to say completely useless for burst and full auto modes.

 

[vishnugupt]

Oh, so now you will talk shit.
Good

Khisiyani billi khamba noche.

What you have to talk except what your foreign masters says. Pranam karo unko or so jao.

 

[Lonewarrior]

i hope you meant to say completely useless for burst and full auto modes.

In general an assault rifle is never designed keeping full-auto fire in mind.

So whatever it gives you, is quite useful by its standards.

 

[utubekhiladi]

In general an assault rifle is never designed keeping full-auto fire in mind.

So whatever it gives you, is quite useful by its standards.

I agree, and its impossible to develop rifle with zero recoil. but the recoil should be at manageable levels. maybe switch to standard .223/5.45 instead?

 

[Lonewarrior]

I agree, and its impossible to develop rifle with zero recoil. but the recoil should be at manageable levels. maybe switch to standard .223/5.45 instead?

If your sole motive is to lower the recoil then ya, switching to .223 is justified.

But then you won't get the superior CQC performance that's offered by 7.62x39mm. Only reason AKs and Vz.s are de facto weapons for CI/CT Ops.

Everything in weapon designing is a compromise.

 

[utubekhiladi]

If your sole motive is to lower the recoil then ya, switching to .223 is justified.

But then you won't get the superior CQC performance that's offered by 7.62x39mm. Only reason AKs and Vz.s are de facto weapons for CI/CT Ops.

Everything in weapon designing is a compromise.

not entirely, I have been in CQC pits using both types..
both type of rounds are equally good.

USMC use .223 rifles for CQC to give one such example:

 

[Lonewarrior]

not entirely, I have been in CQC pits using both types..
both type of rounds are equally good.

USMC use .223 rifles for CQC to give one such example:

Well IIRC the last time USMC used .223 in CQC they were so disappointed that US ammo manufacturers developed .300 BLK.

 

[utubekhiladi]

Well IIRC the last time USMC used .223 in CQC they were so disappointed that US ammo manufacturers developed .300 BLK.

that ammo was developed for some other purpose and reason. I am not familiar with that ammo history though.

Americans were successful in CQC in iraq and afgan etc.. there are 1000s of videos of USMC owning noobs using 5.56 in CQC to point an example/ m4 was most popular choice back then.
even back in IA, we were trained using good old INSAS for CQC..

 

[Lonewarrior]

that ammo was developed for some other purpose and reason. I am not familiar with that ammo history though.

Americans were successful in CQC in iraq and afgan etc.. there are 1000s of videos of USMC owning noobs using 5.56 in CQC to point an example/ m4 was most popular choice back then.
even back in IA, we were trained using good old INSAS for CQC..

.223 was designed to neutralise typical infantry type target wearing armour, at typical infantry engagement ranges.

When engaging half-drugged half-lunatic terrorist in extreme close ranges 5.56mm tends to transfer very less energy in the target. Though the rounds are designed to tumble in soft tissues and make a big wound channel, for some reason the end result is not always satisfactory.

There are numerous accounts from Iraq where terrorist kept firing despite taking a full mag hit.

7.62x39mm is infamous in accuracy and range, but in 200m range it produces devastating terminal ballistics.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

CISF
INSAS LMG

 

[Baabaai]

Seems like the AR platform is better


AK failed the same test

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

OFB INSAS 1B & Excalibur MK-1 Rifles

 

[vishnugupt]

Seems like the AR platform is better


AK failed the same test

If I'm not wrong, there were several occasions during Vietnam war where US Army personals thrown their AR 15/ M16 riffle and grab AK-47 from dead Viet Cong comrades for very same reason. Reliability is the only best feature of AK

 

[ALBY]

1. Really!? You want me to blabber everything again.

2. Believe me, if something is even more dubious than SSS Defense then it's this 'thing'. The offer is not from INDRA, the rifle itself is called INDRA. We don't even know who makes them. They were displayed by a firm called "ASTR Defense" but in booth of VEM Technologies.
Isn't it weird that a company incorporated on 10th of September, 2019 and with a paid up capital of just 1 lakh comes up with such a refined assault rifle. But interestingly no one is allowed to thouch it.

3. INSAS 1C, MCIWS and Carbine are just self-competing products launched as a last ditch effort to save Indian small arms manufacturing's face. Sadly military is in no mood to buy an assault rifle in 5.56x45mm. For replacement of Sterlings we're already having competitions for a foreign design. And these rifles are not adequate enough to compete in international market.

4. Only rifles with true potential are Ghatak and TAR. They can cater a huge market of police forces and CAPF, and they are already doing that. Moreover they can also compete with Kalashnikov Concern and Arsenal in international markets.

Very valid points about SS defence weapons.Many have similar doubts about their quality and authenticity.
Concerning Ghatak and Tar both are worse than the Iranian or N.Korean models which offers better innovation. If anything of hope then it is Ak203.Also with a slight improvements we can market the excaliber also among other third world countries.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Very valid points about SS defence weapons.Many have similar doubts about their quality and authenticity.
Concerning Ghatak and Tar both are worse than the Iranian or N.Korean models which offers better innovation. If anything of hope then it is Ak203.Also with a slight improvements we can market the excaliber also among other third world countries.

Ghatak definitely looks hideous, but it's not "that" bad. TAR looks much more refined.
May be one reason for this is the way they were developed. TAR was developed with just one motive, copying Arsenal AR-M1F41 as perfectly as possible. But in case of Ghatak OFB tried to improve AKM and ya we know what happens whenever OFB tries to innovate.

By replacing just the handguard assembly, grip, dust cover and stock (which OFB has already tried) TAR can very well compete with AK-103M.

TAR will always be compared to AK/AKM before being adopted by any country. And it will provide same ergonomic and controls of AK, parts interchangeability and most importantly use of existing magazine.
So it's kinda perfect for a (add third-world) country looking to replace their existing stock of Kalashnikovs with a modern AK.

Now take Excalibur or 1C. What's the defacto 5.56x45mm rifle? M4 carbine.
Compare Excalibur with M4.
Proprietary magazines (biggest drawback of Excalibur), no bolt hold open, no forward assist, less controllable, no third party support.

TAR even without any modifications, will easily outsell Excalibur no matter what country you try.

 

[ALBY]

Ghatak definitely looks hideous, but it's not "that" bad. TAR looks much more refined.
May be one reason for this is the way they were developed. TAR was developed with just one motive, copying Arsenal AR-M1F41 as perfectly as possible. But in case of Ghatak OFB tried to improve AKM and ya we know what happens whenever OFB tries to innovate.

By replacing just the handguard assembly, grip, dust cover and stock (which OFB has already tried) TAR can very well compete with AK-103M.

TAR will always be compared to AK/AKM before being adopted by any country. And it will provide same ergonomic and controls of AK, parts interchangeability and most importantly use of existing magazine.
So it's kinda perfect for a (add third-world) country looking to replace their existing stock of Kalashnikovs with a modern AK.

Now take Excalibur or 1C. What's the defacto 5.56x45mm rifle? M4 carbine.
Compare Excalibur with M4.
Proprietary magazines (biggest drawback of Excalibur), no bolt hold open, no forward assist, less controllable, no third party support.

TAR even without any modifications, will easily outsell Excalibur no matter what country you try.

There are many countries in the world which uses 5.56 Aks, Galils, Fncs Fals who couldnt afford M4s.with refinement and cosmetic changes in hand guards addition of rails and 30 round mags excalibers could be sold to them.Ofcourse not at the price at which they are sold to police forces.
Dont know why Ofb copied Akm when they could have just copied much lighter Vz58s if they need something in 7.62