INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Shaitan]

Look at firing from one of the developer at ARDE.

It's sad to find out MCIWS is dead.

 

[sayareakd]

Very True....in Area of recoil mitigation it is not far behind to KRISS Vector...but i think it's much closer in concept and execution to HK MP7, which is much more reputed and accepted......

But as per me the real advantage of this platform and what will result in it's wide acceptance (atleast with CAPFs)...is the caliber (5.56x30mm)......5.56mm projectile technology has progressed so much, that now 9mm Submachine guns are being replaced by 5.56mm carbines everywhere (one example is European police forces)...Specialized non ricocheting, hollowpoint 5.56mm is devasting in CQC and anti terror operations....even if this platform uses the same ball projectiles used by INSAS platform, it would be a huge cost advantage......also, police forces all over world are not bound to use the standard ball ammunition (like army), but they can use and they can use the Open-Tipped /Hollow-Point ammo which is devastating....

I lifted old version in 2004, that time i had only Chuck Norris image in my mind,

It was slightly heavy, still i was able to lift with one hand. This will be great in CQB, plus for support soldiers and officers or used as side arm for special forces snipers.

New JVPC looks light weight and refined.

 

[devhensh]

The JVPC indeed looks very refined and comparable to the two most reputed and widely used PDW weapon systems today (HK MP7 and FN P90)....

However, these two reputed PDWs calibers are sometimes thought to have poor terminal performance..

The JVPC(5.56x30mm), i think will have an advantage. With high pressure loadings, and with proper projectiles, it will be comparatively much more effective......

All credit goes to OFB/DRDO, but a similar concept has been tried before....A very good article speaks volumes about the capabilities of such a platform...It is an old article, thus our JVPC should be much more capable....

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=1239

Two most reputed PDWs

HK MP7 (4.6x30mm)
FN P90 (5.7x28mm)

 

[Rahul Singh]

This shows layman what i mean in post No. #2958

Waiting for the day when NSG replaces its MP5s with JVPC.

 

[sayareakd]

Waiting for the day when NSG replaces its MP5s with JVPC.

Now a days NSG is over rated counter terror unit. Its capabilities has diminished due to VIP duties. Last few operations from them is not up to mark, this is happening on home turf.

Any way lets hope they take this rifle.

 

[Gessler]

Now a days NSG is over rated counter terror unit. Its capabilities has diminished due to VIP duties. Last few operations from them is not up to mark, this is happening on home turf.

NSG has two distinct groups within it: Special Action Group and Special Rangers Group. It's the SRG which handles VIP protection details, the SAG is dedicated for anti-terror activities. One group does not do the other role.

There's no such thing as NSG's capabilities diminishing due to VIP duties. SRG has been guarding VIPs since time immemorial...but NSG's capabilities as a whole have only improved tremendously this past decade.

How can you say the operations were not up to mark?

Any way lets hope they take this rifle.

PDW/Carbine. I'd want the JVPC to demonstrate the kind of reliability needed for SOFs weapons (frequency of stoppages, reliable operation after being submerged etc.) before the NSG adopts it.

For any Special unit, it shouldn't matter if it's indigenous or not - how much money it saves or anything like that. Only thing that should matter is capability - if a foreign weapon delivers better capability then we should buy it. JVPC will have enough customers within CAPFs and Army...maybe even Coast Guard & Navy VBSS teams.

If NSG puts forward a need to replace their 9x19 SMGs with something more powerful...they'll have plenty of options on the market.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Can anybody identify all the guns shown in the above pic

 

[Johny_Baba]

Can anybody identify all the guns shown in the above pic

From left to right,
1st one is German Heckler and Koch G41 assault rifle,chambered in 5.56 x 45mm NATO cartridge
2nd one is Finnish Valmet Rk 76F assault rifle,chambered in 7.62 x 39mm cartridge
3rd one is American M16A1 assault rifle,chambered in 5.56 x 45mm NATO cartridge
finally,4th one is same as 1st one.

 

[Suryavanshi]

From left to right,
1st one is German Heckler and Koch G41 assault rifle,chambered in 5.56 x 45mm NATO cartridge
2nd one is Finnish Valmet Rk 76F assault rifle,chambered in 7.62 x 39mm cartridge
3rd one is American M16A1 assault rifle,chambered in 5.56 x 45mm NATO cartridge
finally,4th one is same as 1st one.

Where did these Rohingays get it from?

 

[devhensh]

NSG has two distinct groups within it: Special Action Group and Special Rangers Group. It's the SRG which handles VIP protection details, the SAG is dedicated for anti-terror activities. One group does not do the other role.

There's no such thing as NSG's capabilities diminishing due to VIP duties. SRG has been guarding VIPs since time immemorial...but NSG's capabilities as a whole have only improved tremendously this past decade.

How can you say the operations were not up to mark?



PDW/Carbine. I'd want the JVPC to demonstrate the kind of reliability needed for SOFs weapons (frequency of stoppages, reliable operation after being submerged etc.) before the NSG adopts it.

For any Special unit, it shouldn't matter if it's indigenous or not - how much money it saves or anything like that. Only thing that should matter is capability - if a foreign weapon delivers better capability then we should buy it. JVPC will have enough customers within CAPFs and Army...maybe even Coast Guard & Navy VBSS teams.

If NSG puts forward a need to replace their 9x19 SMGs with something more powerful...they'll have plenty of options on the market.

I agree that NSGs capabilities have improved a lot in past decade and after 26/11.....

But the SRG doesn't only do VIP protection...They are active part of many NSG operations...for example they lay the cordon and secure /hold areas whereas the SAG does the actual assaulting.......

I think, it's taken for granted, that any weapon system which is to be inducted in big numbers (even if for CAPFs), has to go through and clear all the standard tests for relaibility and other parameters for acceptance in service....Whether it's for CAPFs or NSG..

But as per me, it would be the icing on cake, if it's accepted by NSG...Because..

1. NSG is the biggest user of MP5 and HK of Germany has lately refused foreign sales...

2. The 9mm Submachine gun is being replaced all over the world with diffrent Carbine/PDW platforms with high velocity rifle calibers. Our indian 5.56x30mm certainly qualifies....

3. The two leading PDW platforms ( HK MP7 & FN P90) are very similar in concept and use. These are widely used by some of the best antiterrorist , police forces and Close protection units..

 

[Johny_Baba]

Where did these Rohingays get it from?

The H&K guns are being licensed manufactured in various countries including Saudi Arabia,Iran and most importantly,Porkistan.

About Finnish Valmet,Their armed forces don't use 5.56 x 45mm chambered variant of same gun as it is intended for exports only.

As for M16A1,China North Industries,more commonly known as Norinco,manufactures copies of M16 en masse,or it might be an original one as Many asian armies adopted M16 or its derivatives as standard issue firearm on those days.

 

[Gessler]

I agree that NSGs capabilities have improved a lot in past decade and after 26/11.....

But the SRG doesn't only do VIP protection...They are active part of many NSG operations...for example they lay the cordon and secure /hold areas whereas the SAG does the actual assaulting.......

SRG may secure the areas/venues where VIPs may be present...but I haven't heard of them securing perimeters around SAG AOs in general.

Either way, they are separate. How is SRG's VIP detail operations hampering SAG's anti-terror ops? If anything the SAG is actually getting most of the new goodies whether they are weapons, vehicles or other equipment.

I think, it's taken for granted, that any weapon system which is to be inducted in big numbers (even if for CAPFs), has to go through and clear all the standard tests for relaibility and other parameters for acceptance in service....Whether it's for CAPFs or NSG..

CAPFs/Army have their own tests & trials for weapons of course. But it doesn't hurt if the weapons used by SOFs are of better quality & more reliable. When OFB makes weapons for the infantry they need to find a balance between quality & affordability when they are required to mass-produce the firearms.

SOFs need not compromise on anything.

 

[devhensh]

SRG may secure the areas/venues where VIPs may be present...but I haven't heard of them securing perimeters around SAG AOs in general.

Either way, they are separate. How is SRG's VIP detail operations hampering SAG's anti-terror ops? If anything the SAG is actually getting most of the new goodies whether they are weapons, vehicles or other equipment.



CAPFs/Army have their own tests & trials for weapons of course. But it doesn't hurt if the weapons used by SOFs are of better quality & more reliable. When OFB makes weapons for the infantry they need to find a balance between quality & affordability when they are required to mass-produce the firearms.

SOFs need not compromise on anything.

NSG SRG does support the SAG in active operations, by laying cordons and securing off areas whereas the SAG does the actual assaulting...I have heard it word of mouth as well as there are quite a few mentions in media(see below).....

I haven't mentioned anywhere, that SRGs security details duties affect SAG's capabilities....On the other hand, i have mentioned that NSG has become much better and capable post 26/11....

Also, i believe, that if a weapon system that has passed Army's stringent tests, is good enough for any force, whether Army SF or NSG.....

Yes , the SOF needs are special, and that's why they need a special weapon like this one.... Design and Functionality wise i don't see a diffrence between a HK MP7(next generation of MP5) and our JVPC...We can always pay special attention to QC..but for how long will we depend on other countries for small arms !!

 

[Kchontha]

If NSG puts forward a need to replace their 9x19 SMGs with something more powerful...they'll have plenty of options on the market.

You don't need to look for other options available in the international gun market all the time when domestic quality products are available.

 

[soikot banerjee]

I see, the US army (Gora skin) just gave positive comments a.k.a approval of the INSAS rifle, maybe some fanboys can now die in peace.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/yud...exclusive-video-of-india-us-war-games-1755441

Go to given link for video.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Now a days NSG is over rated counter terror unit. Its capabilities has diminished due to VIP duties. Last few operations from them is not up to mark, this is happening on home turf.

NSG has different units for different units for special roles. One deputed on VIP security mainly comprises of personals from paramilitary forces. One on Anti-Hijack / hostage rescue is from Army. There are special units for special roles and they train rigorously throughout the year. I don't think there is any such case diminishing in skills.

Pathankot, as we know, has seen some KIAs but that can not be the reference point. SFs also has losses. Highly trained highly experienced RR units also sees KIAs.

So, I humbly disagree. NSG is what it was, the only difference is nowadays due to the increased rate of terrorist activities its operations are regularly discussed. Hence faults are overly highlighted.

Any way lets hope they take this rifle.

There is no reason for any agency in India to replace an MP5 with any other PDW even MP7. So logical choice for NSG should be JVPC.

 

[sayareakd]

Lets focus back to INSAS............................

 

[devhensh]

Quote
There is no reason for any agency in India to replace an MP5 with any other PDW even MP7. So logical choice for NSG should be JVPC.
Unquote
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I have said the same thing but in a diffrent way...I would rephrase.... The MP5 and other Submachine guns with diffrent CAPFs (and NSG) need to be replaced as they are quite old and outdated..

The JVPC seems like the best candidate on merit and not only becuase it's built in India(although that is also very important, because of huge numbers).......

I mentioned that JVPC is very very similar and even more powerful than HK MP7(a very modern and popular design)...So JVPC has a very good chance of being accepted atleast by CAPFs...I didn't say ANYWHERE that we should buy HK MP7(HK won't sell, even if we wanted to)..

I would imagine, the acceptance of JVPC in service, would open the floodgates for acceptance of all other made in India platforms (Latest INSAS, LMG and most importantly MCIWS ...which is another world class product like JVPC).

 

[Kchontha]

Ofb/arde/drdo shouldn't drag their feet in embracing technology such as box magazine for its new 7.62 belt fed LMG. This is not rocket science. Are they going to wait for a requirement from the end user?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

If that is LMG, I am expecting only magazine feed ..

GPMG is belt feed ..

View attachment 20431
Ofb/arde/drdo shouldn't drag their feet in embracing technology such as box magazine for its new 7.62 belt fed LMG. This is not rocket science. Are they going to wait for a requirement from the end user?