INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

Okkay Newbie question: Is the MSMC in service anywhere in the forces??

 

[SilentKiller]

Okkay Newbie question: Is the MSMC in service anywhere in the forces??

Nope, it lost the race!!

 

[sayareakd]

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Carl Zeiss Optronics Hensoldt Reflex Sight RSA-S

Specifications

Magnification, x 1
Dot size @ 100 yds 3,6"
Field of View (FOV) @100yds 56.4'
Parallax free at, yds 110
Min. quadr. adjustment range at 100 yds 4.2"
Transmission in the range 400-1000 nn 78%
Power supply solar cell + 3 V CR 2032
Length, in 2.5"
Weight, oz 3.53 oz.
Height, in 1.75"
Width, in 1.42"

As per this website it cost $749.00
Carl Zeiss Optronics Hensoldt Reflex Sight RSA-S 334106-9907-000 - EuroOptic.com

which comes to 41033.96 Indian Rupee :shocked:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I haven't heard when it lost ? Do you have a link ..

Or its your presumption..

Nope, it lost the race!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

An Aim-point do just fine..

As per this website it cost $749.00
Carl Zeiss Optronics Hensoldt Reflex Sight RSA-S 334106-9907-000 - EuroOptic.com

which comes to 41033.96 Indian Rupee :shocked:

 

[sayareakd]

kunal sir i am seeing this Carl Zeiss Optronics Hensoldt Reflex Sight RSA-S as standard red dot for all MP5 with commandos.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Very high Cost for State Police / Police branch ..

kunal sir i am seeing this Carl Zeiss Optronics Hensoldt Reflex Sight RSA-S as standard red dot for all MP5 with commandos.

 

[WMD]

Very high Cost for State Police / Police branch ..

sir, can u shed some light on in which stage the variants of INSAS such as excalibur, kalantak, amogh amd MSMC r in?
whether all of them got cancelled or some will see service in IA.

 

[Decklander]

sir, can u shed some light on in which stage the variants of INSAS such as excalibur, kalantak, amogh amd MSMC r in?
whether all of them got cancelled or some will see service in IA.

They all are being tried out by our para military forces. based on their report, a decision will be taken to induct them. No such requirement exists of trials for foreign weapons in India. That shud tell you how greasing of wheels of a file by use of bribe can really make files fly in MOD to kill domestic industry in India.

 

[sayareakd]

INSAS Excalibur is full auto, for para military forces.

 

[SilentKiller]

I haven't heard when it lost ? Do you have a link ..

Or its your presumption..

Well there is a reason why i said so, in last post it was to be tested in 7-8 months.
Post date May 2011 and its now almost 24 months, what else u can expect.

another 24 months?

either it failed or army is going for foreign made.
INSAS was inducted in late 90's and it lost its charm with army.....
Indian army officers are becoming pathetic day by day....
My friend in DRDO told me that they had to install black boxes in Arjun MK1 tanks as someone was playing with them during trials.
Same case happened with Nag, missile most of the worked great, but army wasn't happy with vehicle which was in fact a BMP 2 which army is using with so much faith.

When ever there is a foreign supplier ready for competition, some high officers from army takes bribes and ruins the deal.
Army is always 1 step ahead to bash govt (not favoring govt) but its high time that army is to get its stuff corrected.

Bring all private players along with DRDO in any defence acqusition and just let army know, u have to buy 1 of these that it and set trials duration.
Set fines if trials r failed becoz of product or fine army officers if they keep delaying them....

If u don't bring competition and not give initial orders, how can u improve...

One needs encouragement to succeed future not always scrutiny.

 

[Decklander]

INSAS is best in its class in 5.56 in the world. Excaliber and MSMC are best in their class so our Generals from IA & baboos from MOD came out with a reqt of multicalibre gun to ensure that our DRDO is thrown out of the race. This is how this game of bribes in weapon purchases work. You design such QRs which domestic Industry fails to meet with existing equipment and needs time to develop one. Than you quietly release top secret letters regarding reqt of weapons to press to garner public support to buy weapons in a hurry with a justification that they will come with TOT. Buying weapons in a hurry shoots up the price and TOT adds further to that cost. If you do a short term import without TOT and allow domestic companies to develop such weapons, the overall cost of import of such weapons will reduce drastically.
But when the buying cost goes down, the amount of bribes also goes down. So it is better to have India reduced to a license manufacturer of weapons without really increasing the knowledge base and tech base of our own scientists.

 

[sayareakd]

I am happy that Ambani brother is in Defence business, hope he will take over OFB then our military will jump over each other in praising desi systems and our scientists wont be discouraged.

 

[SilentKiller]

sir, can u shed some light on in which stage the variants of INSAS such as excalibur, kalantak, amogh amd MSMC r in?
whether all of them got cancelled or some will see service in IA.

Well Excalibur lost in trails as army was not happy with flash!!
And why the heck is army is going for Assault rifle and Carbines if its serious to buy new INSAS?

Why we bought Tavor?.....for me new trials for carbines are waste of money.
quickly choose 1 good assualt rifle with all parts of trails filmed and examined by neutral Gun experts...
and take Tavor as standard carbine....

What u guys say?

 

[sayareakd]

Well Excalibur lost in trails as army was not happy with flash!!
And why the heck is army is going for Assault rifle and Carbines if its serious to buy new INSAS?

Why we bought Tavor?.....for me new trials for carbines are waste of money.
quickly choose 1 good assualt rifle with all parts of trails filmed and examined by neutral Gun experts...
and take Tavor as standard carbine....

What u guys say?

Tavor optics cost 1600 USD.

 

[SilentKiller]

so our Generals from IA & baboos from MOD came out with a reqt of multicalibre gun to ensure that our DRDO is thrown out of the race.

Trials are not conducted by babus or by generals....
its like brig/colonels etc...now 6th pay commission is implemented, don't know why they r becoming so shelfish now...
They manipulate trials for favoritism etc.

So it is better to have India reduced to a license manufacturer of weapons without really increasing the knowledge base and tech base of our own scientists.

Highly disagree with this.....
Well bring private players, bring indian as well as foreign. Set timelines and fines of anything that happens wrong.
Video tape every thing in trials for future study too.
any foreign player has to have 1 indian player as collaborator...DRDO can also group with private players and improve and present its design in better ways.

What u r suggesting is short term solution Sir.

INSAS is best in its class in 5.56 in the world.

Might be when it was inducted as some of the concepts it brought like transparent magazine are great.
but u need to improve, not just change body etc and change name.

Had it gone modular way, it would have been great!!

 

[SilentKiller]

Tavor optics cost 1600 USD.

What if we have TOT for its manufature in india?
then will its cost not decrease?

way IA is buying guns is that we will have 100 diff types of rifles and it will cost us logitical issues in future.
They should think in such a way...

Well, whole army should have 1 type of Assault rifle, carbine, SMG, Bolt action sniper, Semi/full Auto sniper, High caliber rifle etc.
special forces can have max 2 types as per needs as whole army need not be special!!

 

[WMD]

i am not sure abt other variants of INSAS like Excalibur or kalantak but i think MSMC will see service in IA,
as far as ordering new carbines go, no contract is signed till now and its pretty low key i.e we don't know much abt the deal.
another thing is that IA has around 600000 INSAS ARs, so it'll see service for the coming foreseeable future, even if new ARs get inducted.
and we also use ak-47,74,103 along with INSAS ARs, so it prompts me to say that even if a new foreign made carbines gets selected it shouldn't affect the induction of MSMC.

 

[sayareakd]

i am not sure abt other variants of INSAS like Excalibur or kalantak but i think MSMC will see service in IA,
as far as ordering new carbines go, no contract is signed till now and its pretty low key i.e we don't know much abt the deal.
another thing is that IA has around 600000 INSAS ARs, so it'll see service for the coming foreseeable future, even if new ARs get inducted.
and we also use ak-47,74,103 along with INSAS ARs, so it prompts me to say that even if a new foreign made carbines gets selected it shouldn't affect the induction of MSMC.

At max it will served with tank crew, drivers, radio operator and other support people including commander in the field who dont need to carry Assault rifle, this will be their personal defence weapon. BTW this MSMC is made for para military for anti terror operations. It is light weight, as i have lifted this MSMC and it is light weight

 

[Decklander]

Pls read these.
Modern Sub Machine Carbine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
DRDO develops close-quarter combat guns for Army - Brahmand.com
5.56×30mm MINSAS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many carbines in the world have a range of 300 meters and can penetrate standard NATO armour?
We are still the a$$lickers of gori chamadi. We don't find anything good about our own products. Pls see the muzzle velocity of MSMC also.