INSAS Indian Small Arms System

[sayareakd]

Sri, Saya is talking about poster not real gun in Ajai sir hand. Gun in Ajai sir hand is MMSC about which Saya can never go wrong as he have seen it from inches also probably touched it like me..hehehe!!!!!!!

touch it, pull the trigger, extended the butt and took picture you can see those at 0.59 frame of the video
they did not allow to pose with gun.............

 

[sayareakd]

rahul check the FINSAS poster on the bottom right

By null at 2010-07-25

 

[tarunraju]

700 mm with butt extended? There will be some serious ergonomics problems. The operator's trigger-hand will be retracted further away from the body than what he's used to with regular assault rifles. It will be tough to operate with the butt retracted, because being a carbine it will have high kickback (it's not like MP5 with its 9mm ammo that has lesser kickback). It will take quite some training to adjust. It's not even like Uzi that has a milder kickback, and hence you can operate it like a uSMG.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

The Uzi type gun in the hand of reporter is MSMC which fires a 5.56x30 mm low powered round and is a replacement of Sten (Sterling) 9mm carbine. The interesting thing is the poster in the background which shows a new assault rifle to replace INSAS. the top left also shows that it can use multiple barrel lengths. The mid left picure which shows the FINSAS rifle field stripped is very unclear. These were more important pics compared to MSMC which are now old hat

 

[plugwater]

rahul check the FINSAS poster on the bottom right

By null at 2010-07-25

both pictures look similar to me.

 

[sayareakd]

TR check this

therefore length is good for butt, i have myself checked with butt and without, it is good and light weight.

 

[tarunraju]

TR check this...

...therefore length is good for butt, i have myself checked with butt and without, it is good and light weight.

Probably it is good to hold, but unlike MP5 or Uzi, this is neither an SMG nor a uSMG. It's a 5.56 carbine that tends to have recoil comparable to assault rifles (much higher than recoil on .45 SMGs like UMP45, 9mm Uzi). The user of this weapon will have to use just one hand (the trigger-hand) for grip because the handle is too small for grip with both hands and the weapon is heaver than a handgun, and position it away from the body (which is difficult if you're used to rifles or even proper SMGs like MP5 or UMP). Like Manc said, this weapon doesn't even have a forearm grip like Steyr TMP that helps your body absorb some of the recoil energy, increasing accuracy. I guess we'll have to wait for feedback from its operators.

I think if this weapon is given a forearm grip, it won't need that awkward butt.

 

[Agantrope]

TR check this

My Damn, it is in Russian and mentioned as DRDO?

is it DRDO product or any russian product made by OFB?

 

[Rage]

The new gun looks insane. I was given to understand that it would look similar to the XM-25, but this is quite different.

Also any word on whether it will feature the new 6.8mm caliber?

 

[Agantrope]

The new gun looks insane. I was given to understand that it would look similar to the XM-25, but this is quite different.

Also any word on whether it will feature the new 6.8mm caliber?

Carbine will be used in urban operation like Operation black tornado, which the maximum range will be 60-70m and this will be fine use of it.

 

[sayareakd]

sri that pic is from Russian magazine, that is why the caption in russian it is DRDO, MSMC.

 

[sayareakd]

TR i also thought that multi caliber rifle will be something like the K11 of south korea or that failed US with integration of bullpup and regular rifle (i though only then two caliber is possible) put the pic is showing something else as posted by Rahul.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

The pic with Russian is just an old design of MSMC. Nothing Russian about the carbine.


Now the F-INSAS weapon looks good. Seems to have changable barrel, barrel screwed in upper receiver, forward handle option, collapsible stock and conventional layout.

 

[sayareakd]

@RM it appears that multi caliber rifle means to DRDO, something on which multiple bullets can be used by change of barrel rather then integration of different caliber bullets into one rifle.

I am disappointed that DNA video on youtube for FINSAS shows different rifle.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Also any word on whether it will feature the new 6.8mm caliber?

I believe you talking about MSMC(gun in hands not in poster). No, there are no plans for 6.8mm bullets. I myself talked to guy standing in front of this gun at DEFEXPO 10, he said " 5.56 is ultimate for any carbine" he added "to reduce recoil and increase killing power we have developed special 5.56mm bullets".

 

[sayareakd]

@rahul that one is for FINSAS rifle.

 

[flaming arrow]

well i need a more high quality pic of that weapon...

 

[Raj Malhotra]

With reference to the poster behind Ajai Schukla:-


The new rifle seems to have fully collapsible butt stock (with rubber butt plate and cheek rest?). It has a picatinny rail on top with dual sight system. The iron sights seem to be removable & perhaps to be fixed on picatinny rail. There seems to be option for mounting a forehandle on lower recevier, so there should be picatinny rail on lower receiver also. Seems to have options to fit multiple barrel lengths (quick change?). The upper receiver seems to be detachable for quick change. The forend looks like G36, so does it have plastic body? There seem to be details about a new 5.56mm round which are not clear. Even the grenade launcher seems a new design as it has a handle.

I hope these pics are not just diagrammatic representations from some other compay, cut and pasted. Interesting a very dim picture next to FINSAS soldier seems like a bullpub rifle.

Multicaliber normally means that by changing the upper receiver, one change the caliber. In this way 5.56mmx45, 5.56mmmx30, 6.8-6.5-6 or even 9 mm can be adopted with the same lower receiver. For the 7.62mm round, one would new rifle as the changes would be too many.

My guess would be it is mixture of G36 looks, INSAS mechanism and collapsible stock like HK416 sub carbine

 

[prateikf]

would this MSMC ever be inducted into our forces? it was supposed to be inducted after trials in december 2009. But till now we have not seen it even in the hands of a single soldier. what's the need to develop a carabine spending crores of rupees if it isnt going to be inducted?

 

[Rahul Singh]

Nein Rahul. I'm talking about the multi caliber individual weapon system on the right-hand corner poster. The 6.8mm calibre is under development for the first time in India, and if I do remember right was expected to be one of four calubers on the system.

We know close to nothing about that Multi Caliber Individual Weapon System. Pic is in ultra low resolution to see anything. So i can't and i think nobody can unless we see high resolution pic. I have posted a request on that Blog lets see what comes out. BTW, i personally fell it will better to develop a gun with changeable barrels than one with two barrels.