INSAS Indian Small Arms System

[Logan]

Since a decade old news are in use in this thread for supporting cause against INSAS IAR i thought posting this 5 year old news will not be wrong..

But i do not think the 5.56mm ammunition suits Indian cause.

 

[Rahul Singh]

If this ammo is suitable for US army fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan then how it is not suitable for IA?

I feel 7.62 cause pops-up again and again because it is associated with AK and its heavenly fame.

 

[Logan]

If this ammo is suitable for US army fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan then how it is not suitable for IA?

I feel 7.62 cause pops-up again and again because it is associated with AK and its heavenly fame.

But US would soon be moving on to the 6.8mm ammunition i suppose as a lot of such assault rifles are in development

 

[Rahul Singh]

But yet there is no concrete signs for this transition. I think better option will be to adapt 5.56mm for anti-insurgency and keeping basic design for regular duties...

 

[Rahul Singh]

RNA on Kathmandu roads with all black INSAS IAR.

 

[Logan]

But yet there is no concrete signs for this transition. I think better option will be to adapt 5.56mm for anti-insurgency and keeping basic design for regular duties...

But a country like India where insurgency has been a malignant problem since long i really feel ammo capable of one shot kill should be used as terrorists don't give a damn about an injured colleague.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

But yet there is no concrete signs for this transition. I think better option will be to adapt 5.56mm for anti-insurgency and keeping basic design for regular duties...

@Rahul,
The reason M43 is chosen for CT operation is because it can stop a suicide attacker, The stopping power is more in M43 than 5.56mm, Mostly a 5.56mm wound is fetal but it don't give the tango quick death, the terrorist may fire back, M43 ensure kill!, that's the reason we see 47 in J&k operations..

Unlike the soldiers' reports after Afghanistan, Marines in Iraq said the 5.56 mm round fired from the M-16 "definitely answered the mail" and "as long as shots were in the head or chest, they went down." The Marine reports said many were initially skeptical of the small rounds' performance against the heavier 7.62 mm round fired from AK-47s. There were reports of enemy being shot and not going down,

http://www.stripes.com/news/army-marines-rate-weapon-success-1.7546

 

[Rahul Singh]

@ LOGAN.
There are talks around that 5.56 doesn't deliver enough K.E in comparison to 7.62 which kills instantly. I had asked this to an associated guy and he answered " True 7.62 kills because of high K.E but that said 7.62 with AK is not lethal at rages where 5.56 is" he adds "above all where you hit is what matters most...... an AK shot will not kill if you hit foe in leg and AKs are not that accurate in comparison to 5.56 or INSAS"

 

[Logan]

@ LOGAN.
There are talks around that 5.56 doesn't deliver enough K.E in comparison to 7.62 which kills instantly. I had asked this to an associated guy and he answered " True 7.62 kills because of high K.E but that said 7.62 with AK is not lethal at rages where 5.56 is" he adds "above all where you hit is what matters most...... an AK shot will not kill if you hit foe in leg and AKs are not that accurate in comparison to 5.56 or INSAS"

It's not just about an AK ,,it is about adopting a new ammo being fired from whichever weapon.If DRDO can modify the INSAS to fit the 6.8mm ammo then well and good otherwise we need to keep our options open.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It's not just about an AK ,,it is about adopting a new ammo being fired from whichever weapon.If DRDO can modify the INSAS to fit the 6.8mm ammo then well and good otherwise we need to keep our options open.

a new 6.8 mm under-development for the first time in India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-INSAS

 

[SATISH]

Sir,
But the 5.45mm round used by the Russias in the AK 74 is light weight and lethal and as accurate as a 5.56mm and easier to handle. Why dosent the Indian army try to use a lighter round with a small airspace infront of it. The Ballistic Gelatin brick has proven that the bullet tends to give the person at the recieving end a verry terrible pain and is more successful destruction of all the internal organs. The bullet in the AK 74 tends to yaw causing a severe pain.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sir,
But the 5.45mm round used by the Russias in the AK 74 is light weight and lethal and as accurate as a 5.56mm and easier to handle. Why dosent the Indian army try to use a lighter round with a small airspace infront of it. The Ballistic Gelatin brick has proven that the bullet tends to give the person at the recieving end a verry terrible pain and is more successful destruction of all the internal organs. The bullet in the AK 74 tends to yaw causing a severe pain.

Actually both 5.45 & 5.56 are spire point bullet and have almost same ballistics, range and weight, SS109 ( Indian Army ) is improved 5.56mm meant for extended range with more energy and velocity which enable the bullet to shred BP jackets also it have a steel core, Though both rounds gives the terrible pain and fatal wounds, When the bullet impacts at high velocity and yaws in tissue, fragmentation creates a rapid transfer of energy which can result in massive wounding but relatively low hydrostatic shock effects, which enable these tangos to keep fighting on, until someone shoot him on head or chest,

Where as M43 ( 7.62X39mm ) round of AK on impact High hydrostatic shock effects put liquid ( Blood ) in motion by 'shock waves' or hydraulic effects... with liquid filled tissues, the effects and destruction of tissues extend in all directions far beyond the wound axis, hydrostatic shock can produce remote neural damage and produce incapacitation more quickly than blood loss effects ( Hence effective than 5.56mm in terms of incapacitation ). The debate between proponents of bullets that are "light and fast" versus bullets that are "slow and heavy" often refers to this phenomenon.

Links between brain injury and ballistic pressure waves

BOTH the rounds have a tendency to yaws in tissue, fragmentation creates a rapid transfer of energy which can result in massive wounding..



NEW 6.8x43/45mm will have same range and same velocity of 5.56x45mm round and also the effects of 7.62x39mm on impact, hence its the better round!

 

[sayareakd]

INSAS Rifle (an abbreviation of Indian Small Arms System) is a family of infantry arms comprising an assault rifle, a light machine gun and a carbine. It is manufactured by the Ordnance Factories Board (OFB) at Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli, Small Arms Factory Kanpur and Ishapore Rifle Factory.

The Insas Assault Rifle is the standard infantry weapon of the Indian Armed Forces.


Picture poster of FINSAS gun and lethal 5.56 for INSAS along with submachine carbine

guys check first picture poster of FINSAS gun (multi cabaler individual weapon system) gun on top right corner and 5.56 lethal bullet for INSAS at background and sub machine carbine by DRDO.

 

[Agantrope]

Carbine??? But doesnt looks like one?

 

[sayareakd]

By null at 2010-07-25

 

[Rahul Singh]

Carbine??? But doesnt looks like one?

See within cross hair. Wow the gun looks decent. Alas Ajai Sir didn't gave attention to that.

 

[sayareakd]

Rahul this rifle is not combination of bullpup and the regular rifle. Therefore i am not impressed, i will wait till they show this to the world. Till them i will fancy K11 from South korea.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Why Saya? To me the gun looks very good something close to US army land warrior gun. To be honest, i hate bullpups and to me they don't give any signs of being modern or anything. All they offer is length advantage, which in my opinion any IAR with fordable/ collapsing-extending butt will offer and concerned gun seems to have that.

 

[Agantrope]

Rahul this rifle is not combination of bullpup and the regular rifle. Therefore i am not impressed, i will wait till they show this to the world. Till them i will fancy K11 from South korea.

Some kinda of Hybrid with Uzi. Still the scope looks nice

 

[Rahul Singh]

Some kinda of Hybrid with Uzi. Still the scope looks nice

Sri, Saya is talking about poster not real gun in Ajai sir hand. Gun in Ajai sir hand is MMSC about which Saya can never go wrong as he has seen it from inches also probably touched it like me..hehehe!!!!!!!