INSAS Indian Small Arms System

[Kunal Biswas]

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Deigned for Insas by MKU..

 

[Sumonmitra20]

Some Pics i took during DEFEXPO-2010..

I want this gun as a replacement for our 9mm carbine..

A fore grip would have been nice.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

Its not the indigenous technology which is working good ( Insas ) hold us but our own mentality..

There are many who are yet to decide that Arty is really needed in IA ? seriously..

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We may see there technology which can enhance our soldiers too but the mentality and bunch of stupid question does block all progress than there is even more stupid MOD official..

If we are getting anything is because of kick backs other wise these people would fight more for there EGOs than Country..

That is contrary to the reality...
IA never blocked INSAS..... It is OFB which produced such muck that IA was forced to raise their hands. IA is not the only agency, every one is dissatisfied with it where it was introduced.
It is not bad merely due to the fact that it was ill designed and ill manufactured but it was further thrust on others due to commercials interests of OFB without consideration to what users want !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

That is contrary to the reality...IA never blocked INSAS..... It is OFB which produced such muck that IA was forced to raise their hands. IA is not the only agency, every one is dissatisfied with it where it was introduced.

No arguments, Regarding IA..

But not the other part..

It is not bad merely due to the fact that it was ill designed and ill manufactured but it was further thrust on others due to commercials interests of OFB without consideration to what users want !

Crap and untruth..

Its deign is better than those of M16 & M4 so does AK, And it was not thrust but accepted by IA and others after improvements..

 

[Bhadra]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

No arguments, Regarding IA..

But not the other part..



Crap and untruth..

Its deign is better than those of M16 & M4 so does AK, And it was not thrust but accepted by IA and others after improvements..

your crap is busted by number of INSAS sold to other countries and its international market ....
All those pointing out faults in INSAS are not agents of Videshi mal. There are soldiers down there on ground who do not prefer it to AK. Let INSAS be competitive and come through bidding.

Let INSAS participate in selection process.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

your crap is busted by number of INSAS sold to other countries and its international market ....
All those pointing out faults in INSAS are not agents of Videshi mal. There are soldiers down there on ground who do not prefer it to AK. Let INSAS be competitive and come through bidding.Let INSAS participate in selection process.

Are you Videshi mal.?

Insas was primarily deigned for Indian forces also Insas was never showcased in International market coz its deign as per Indian requirement..

And those who use Insas are fine with its preform-ace, Other wise it would have replaced and re-sold to some other place..


Why not. Put it against M16, M4 , G36 , Galil in terms of its accuracy and reliability so does maintenance time..

 

[Bhadra]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

Insas was primarily deigned for Indian forces also Insas was never showcased in International market coz its deign as per Indian requirement..

And those who use Insas are fine with its preform-ace, Other wise it would have replaced and re-sold to some other place..


Why not. Put it against M16, M4 , G36 , Galil in terms of its accuracy and reliability so does maintenance time, I use Insas i am confident about it..

That is what the whole point is...
OFB produces for a captive market rather than a competitive market so who cares what the product is !!
Why should the Forces be allowed that kind of lack of choice... you mean to say IA exists so that OFB survives !!

 

[Jim Street]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

That is what the whole point is...
OFB produces for a captive market rather than a competitive market so who cares what the product is !!
Why should the Forces be allowed that kind of lack of choice... you mean to say IA exists so that OFB survives !!

Isn't IA is infamous for its preference of foreign maal. Aren't Arjun test being sabotaged and many other instances enough.

May be INSAS is good for Indian conditions as said by Kunal.

Why is anything Indian should be seen in suspicion every time ?

 

[Apollyon]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

Isn't IA is infamous for its preference of foreign maal. Aren't Arjun test being sabotaged and many other instances enough.

The Army was clearly told to make sure that the seeker locked on and followed the target before the missile was fired. But, in both the instances, the missiles were fired before the seeker locked on the target.

Induction of Nag missile likely to be delayed further

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

That is what the whole point is...OFB produces for a captive market rather than a competitive market so who cares what the product is !!!

I care about the rifle one use, How it preform and does it ended up with problem when in use, I have nothing to do with foreign market and business aspect much..

All i know how it preform and keep up with me, that matters to me, About Insas upgrade OFB have Insas Excalibur but not used by Army..

And i dislike when people say something which is not something happening on field..

 

[Bhadra]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

Isn't IA is infamous for its preference of foreign maal. Aren't Arjun test being sabotaged and many other instances enough.

May be INSAS is good for Indian conditions as said by Kunal.

Why is anything Indian should be seen in suspicion every time ?

INSAS was accepted and introduced in IA some 20 years back.... in very large numbers ..
It is the standard issue for all soldiers...
But bulk of them today are fighting their real wars with AK. Why??

User is not satisfied with INSAS . Ask them the reasons and make another one !!
Make AK if INSAS has failed in design parameters. Why get stuck to it !!

 

[p2prada]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

Isn't IA is infamous for its preference of foreign maal.

No. IA is famous for buying the right equipment, desi or videshi.

Aren't Arjun test being sabotaged and many other instances enough.

It was a fake claim. The Army had a number of reasons to reject Arjun and the success or failure of the engine would have done nothing to alleviate other issues the tank is facing. Meaning nothing would have happened even if the Arjun was successful during the engine sabotage trials. The current plan for Mk2s would have continued with the Mk1s being capped at 124.

After the failure in Winter trials in 2007, the following AUCRT summer trials saw similar engine failures. So, engines were failing throughout the year and not just once. Engine issues, or rather transmission issues were fixed only in 2008 trials. By 2010, most of the teething problems were fixed but the tank was still not up to specification. Nothing the Army can do about these things.

Even after Nag failed people were blaming the Army. I don't know for what reasons??? Nag failed because of DRDO, not because of the Army.

May be INSAS is good for Indian conditions as said by Kunal.

INSAS wasn't the best, but it was satisfactory.

Why is anything Indian should be seen in suspicion every time ?

It is not. Media makes up stories and sensationalizes small issues like the T-90s FCS issue which was fixed back in 2005-06 but never reported. It is just that the number of successful projects is outnumbered by the failed ones. So, there is a certain level of credibility issue.

Some departments have delivered while some departments have not.

 

[p2prada]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

INSAS was accepted and introduced in IA some 20 years back.... in very large numbers ..
It is the standard issue for all soldiers...
But bulk of them today are fighting their real wars with AK. Why??

User is not satisfied with INSAS . Ask them the reasons and make another one !!
Make AK if INSAS has failed in design parameters. Why get stuck to it !!

Ray sir said soldiers are jumping on to AKs because it is very easy to use. INSAS requires more maintenance and soldiers are too lazy to do the extra work. The gun itself is good enough for the IA to have bought it.

For the F-INSAS program INSAS is obsolete and cannot be used anymore. It is obvious because even older foreign guns better than INSAS won't conform to F-INSAS requirements.

 

[Jim Street]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

Ray sir said soldiers are jumping on to AKs because it is very easy to use. INSAS requires more maintenance and soldiers are too lazy to do the extra work. The gun itself is good enough for the IA to have bought it.

For the F-INSAS program INSAS is obsolete and cannot be used anymore. It is obvious because even older foreign guns better than INSAS won't conform to F-INSAS requirements.

If INSAS requires more maintenance, what about in war, the enemy will keep on firing their AKs and these "lazy" soldiers will be busy cleaning their guns.

For F-INSAS, your assessment is right.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

User is not satisfied with INSAS . Ask them the reasons and make another one !! Make AK if INSAS has failed in design parameters. Why get stuck to it !!

Ask them will tell you nicely..

AK is used in CT coz of 7.62m43 round mainly..

Maintenance time is same for two rifles..

And Insas deign is better than AK even M16, G36, M4..

 

[sayareakd]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

If INSAS requires more maintenance, what about in war, the enemy will keep on firing their AKs and these "lazy" soldiers will be busy cleaning their guns.

For F-INSAS, your assessment is right.

In war, when the enemy is 400 meters away and enemy soldier with AK on full auto firing, would empty his magazine in one go, without hitting any bullets to our guy, when three bust INSAS is fired at enemy at 400 meters, very small chance that our guy will miss enemy, even if he miss, he can fire another 3 bust and get his target. So with 3-6 bullets our guy can get enemy but enemy with full auto empty magazine wont get our guy.

FINSAS is total system, it include new rifle, BPJ, communication, boots etc.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

FINSAS is total system, it include new rifle, BPJ, communication, boots etc.

That statement bears repeating. I was not aware of the fact until recently.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

In war, when the enemy is 400 meters away and enemy soldier with AK on full auto firing, would empty his magazine in one go, without hitting any bullets to our guy, when three bust INSAS is fired at enemy at 400 meters, very small chance that our guy will miss enemy, even if he miss, he can fire another 3 bust and get his target. So with 3-6 bullets our guy can get enemy but enemy with full auto empty magazine wont get our guy.

FINSAS is total system, it include new rifle, BPJ, communication, boots etc.

Firstly, no one with INSAS is supposed to or trained to fire three round burst at 400 m. That is highly inaccurate. At 400m soldiers fire single aimed round or by the time enemy reached from 400 to 200m, the soldier can only fire his other gun (due to ammunition having been exhausted)....

No one fires AK on auto at more than 100m....
Single shot AK at 300 m is as accurate as INSAS.

But the problem is that at 400m if enemy is hit by 5.56 he would not even be injured..

Enemy hit by AK at 300m may die....

Saya Ji, do not propagate new theories ... and based on those advance your arguments.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: F-INSAS Futuristic Infantry Soldier As a System

Firstly, no one with INSAS is supposed to or trained to fire three round burst at 400 m. That is highly inaccurate.[/U]

Are you sure.. People use Insas and its LMG shooting targets at 350-400m range both day and night, Very good accuracy even at night...

But the problem is that at 400m if enemy is hit by 5.56 he would not even be injured..

Single shot AK at 300 m is as accurate as INSAS.

Stop making fact of your own..

It sound ridiculous..

 

[Immanuel]

Actually though the 5.56 doesn't necessarily kill at one shot, it does damage while being stuck in the body, AK passes through clean and offcourse leaves a nice clean hole, many have survived AK shots while die quickly to 5.56 shots. AK-74 5.56 are among the deadliest 5.56 shots to take since they tumble in your body causing extensive organ damage. For CQB it is useful to drop your enemy, AK does that well, the enemy will drop to the ground, not necessarily dead but on the ground nevertheless. But for CQB and urban combat AKs are large and bulky. Perhaps a proper KRISS .45 would suffice with immence stopping/ dropping power. First shot AK is nice to have a 300m but to have accuracy in subsequent shots is not easy and requires a very well trained person to make good use of the AK in all situations but at 300 to 400m the INSAS/ AR style rifle do well due to accuracy, proper semi auto shots at the target can allow for accurate hits. However, at 400 m one will need good aiming skills to accomplish kill shots through the INSAS/ AR etc. Training yet again is everything.

I think on the long run the infantry would benefit from 6.5/6.8 mm calibers since they allow for long range kills with exceptional ballistic performance and stopping power. Moreover, in our cases scopes have to become a standard for all soldiers. ACOG/ red dot, holo and relxes have to become standards for all soldiers.