INSAS Indian Small Arms System

[Kunal Biswas]

1: insas has better accuracy than AK47 as it has longer barrel than AK47's ,does it has better accuracy than a M4 which has a smaller barrel ? ans is no.

2: a semi auto rifle with 20 round mag off course less chance of getting over heating & stoppage .
Thread INSAS vs AK47 vs M16? | World Affairs Board - Discussion forum for political, military, economicand social topics. | BoardReader

1. The answer is YES! Insas precision too is greater than M4 so does accuracy at longer ranges, Reson is barrel but also the Round it fires, Serach for SS109 nato..

2. Any of them ever fired a Insas ? In Nepal their was a Issue with jamming, OFB guys went there and fired 250-1000 rnds without jamming, A well maintain gun will preform better..

 

[Ray]

WAB is hardly the expert on INSAS or any matter that is beyond the US.

 

[Killswitch]

At the least, every INSAS needs an upgrade package, my ideas:

30 round mag

picanny rail

black/grey furniture

ubgl

a decent scope that can go on picanny rails (acog refelx red dot.....depends on the combat scenarios)

better slings so you can:

remove the carrying handle


If this isn't done then:

I cant wait to see the INSAS replaced.

Who knows, maybe the ARDE/DRDO multi cal will be accepted by the army and get the tender.

If not, plenty of foreign systems can do the job.

 

[ALBY]

The length of the barrel does not govern accuracy as much as the sight radius. The sight radius is the distance between the fore-sight and rear-sight. The bigger the sight radius the more accurate the rifle. The AK is not as accurate as the INSAS or M4 due to the small sight radius and open V sights.

will the accuracy of an ak improve if it is equipped by a rear sight?

 

[Ray]

It must be understood that the weight that the soldier carries is ALSO a criterion for designing.

Unlike other Armies in the world, the IA operates, not as a chance mission but as a routine, in high altitude and inclement weather.

It is not that there are roads to the posts or through the high altitude areas along the FDLs and so, all the weight including rations, def stores, communication eqpt etc are to be carried manpack.

The heavier the weapons, less is the weight for other necessities.

Therefore, to have various attachments or increased ammunition in magazines, scopes is desirable, but has to be within the weight constraint the man can carry.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

At the least, every INSAS needs an upgrade package, my ideas:
30 round mag
picanny rail
black/grey furniture
ubgl
a decent scope that can go on picanny rails (acog refelx red dot.....depends on the combat scenarios)
better slings so you can:
remove the carrying handle

Carrying handle is important..

When you are adding Rail which must be P-rail of full length, you need to have good flip up iron sights, Optics are plenty available, UBGL can be fitted..

Sling is not a issue either, rest is fine..

I personally liked Excalibur, It should be the rifle of Regulars on first place, But OFB marketing greed or some thing else made this gun go down..




And Insas does have UBGL:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Most people think of AK 47 as a cheap inaccurate weapon only used for open firing by untrained civilian rebels, terrorists and third world armies.

Launched in 1947 with currently priced at just around $150 and available even less than half of it via black marketing is the most successful rifle ever made with over more than 75 million units manufactured around the world. Its the cost, handling, reliability and LETHALITY which makes it famous among`st everyone who wishes to raise arms

As far as its accuracy is concerned then above all other things comes the hands which uses it. In an able hands, it is the most dangerous weapon ever, out of all those which operates on this earth.

Watch below vid, an extract from Deadliest Warrior, from 2:25. A BRIEF DESCRIPTION what accuracy actually means !
[video=youtube_share;R_rN4yDYpqw]http://youtu.be/R_rN4yDYpqw[/video]

 

[niharjhatn]

1. The answer is YES! Insas precision too is greater than M4 so does accuracy at longer ranges, Reson is barrel but also the Round it fires, Serach for SS109 nato..

2. Any of them ever fired a Insas ? In Nepal their was a Issue with jamming, OFB guys went there and fired 250-1000 rnds without jamming, A well maintain gun will preform better..

Yes, accuracy is affected by both barrel length, how the barrel is constructed, and ammo.

This is an interesting table comparing different snipers:

Now does it make a difference at the level the INSAS, M4 etc operate in? I am not so sure! Its a complex interplay of factors, and IMO one that cannot be "rationalised" or theorised, but has to compared via practical testing and most importantly, standardised controls.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Yes, accuracy is affected by both barrel length, how the barrel is constructed, and ammo.

Now does it make a difference at the level the INSAS, M4 etc operate in? I am not so sure! Its a complex interplay of factors, and IMO one that cannot be "rationalised" or theorised, but has to compared via practical testing and most importantly, standardised controls.

The chart shows what i told, The ammo the barrel makes the difference..



Barrel is constructed in similar way as it for AKM or M16 or Insas or any-other Rifle..

The length of the barrel matters as the longer barrel round gain more energy while rifling through the barrel..

So does the Ammo, It counts how much heavy it is, What are its aerodynamic properties which decide the ballistic of the bullet hitting...

It does make some difference specially with ammo, SS109 is good in longer ranges where other-one is in close range..



why Insas is better than M4:

1. Length of barrel..

2. Ammo used..

 

[niharjhatn]

Wiki says effective range of INSAS only 450 compared to M4 500-600

I daresay INSAS is filling a slightly different role than M4 (INSAS is more akin to M16, M4 was made shorter for urban combat specifically), but the issues with the M4 is noted by the US as they are trying to develop an alternative, but both the interesting OICW and FN SCAR's have largely failed to replace the M16/M4 as the huge costs have failed to justify the relatively small improvements made...

Am not entirely sure of the cost comparison (as it is really the first current gen rifle made by India I am not sure how appropriate that would be) But it is quite impressive that they have comparable statistics, and augurs well for the future.

IMO modular assault rifles that can be quickly changed on field will be the rifle of the future... modern warfare is all about squad warfare of highly trained infantry units, and having a diverse rifle will only augment such changes in tactics.

Good video displaying power of ACR:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Wiki says effective range of INSAS only 450 compared to M4 500-600

Wiki can be manipulated, though Insas range can be more than 600m coz you can elevate if the target is far and your rounds are not hitting it, same for M4..

I daresay INSAS is filling a slightly different role than M4 (INSAS is more akin to M16, M4 was made shorter for urban combat specifically), but the issues with the M4 is noted by the US as they are trying to develop an alternative, but both the interesting OICW and FN SCAR's have largely failed to replace the M16/M4 as the huge costs have failed to justify the relatively small improvements made...

Actually both are same roles coz Insas length is slightly longer than AKM and shorter than M16, M4 lack the range and the punch where M16 does..

But now when taking tangos the 5.56mm is worth as long you shoot them in head or heart, where as AKM do the job better coz it create better shock through blood vessels and muscles which cause Man to hit the ground faster, M43 bullets are slow and heavy hence more stopping power..

IMO modular assault rifles that can be quickly changed on field will be the rifle of the future... modern warfare is all about squad warfare of highly trained infantry units, and having a diverse rifle will only augment such changes in tactics.

Insas is very good rifle, It could have been updated but no one did so Army is replacing it..

 

[sayareakd]

guys you are getting info from persons who have used the rifle, so please listen to what they are saying.

 

[Killswitch]

Carrying handle is important..

When you are adding Rail which must be P-rail of full length, you need to have good flip up iron sights, Optics are plenty available, UBGL can be fitted..

Sling is not a issue either, rest is fine..


I personally liked Excalibur, It should be the rifle of Regulars on first place, But OFB marketing greed or some thing else made this gun go down..




And Insas does have UBGL:




Hm....



I have never seen a soldier with the UBGL, not even at the border areas with Pakistan. If its being issued, its being issued very slowly. It also appears to be crudely made and (as usual) not made with ergonomics in mind. It looks like it would throw a persons aim off if they tried to use the rifle with the ubgl on it.

Excalibur looks slightly better but still looks like a half hearted attempt at making a modern rifle.

I might be wrong ( I hope I am), hopefully the newer multi-cal rifles can replace the INSAS asap.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It also appears to be crudely made and (as usual) not made with ergonomics in mind. It looks like it would throw a persons aim off if they tried to use the rifle with the ubgl on it..

 

[jackprince]

I have never seen a soldier with the UBGL, not even at the border areas with Pakistan. If its being issued, its being issued very slowly. It also appears to be crudely made and (as usual) not made with ergonomics in mind. It looks like it would throw a persons aim off if they tried to use the rifle with the ubgl on it.

Excalibur looks slightly better but still looks like a half hearted attempt at making a modern rifle.

I might be wrong ( I hope I am), hopefully the newer multi-cal rifles can replace the INSAS asap.

It 'LOOKS' like, 'APPEARS' to be. Man, why don't you just stop your rambling and 'PROVE' something. The person you have quoted, 'USES' the rifles you 'THINK' not up to the per, and 'FINDS' them OK. He and the million like him, who actually will be using them at the time of need. If they find it OK, what is you problem? If the rifle doesn't look sexy enough, doesn't mean it can't kill when and what a competent person shoots it.

 

[Ray]

The ungainly Shermans and Centurions knocked the living hell out of the 'sexy' Pattons.

In golf, a poor shot that even so traverses a long distance is called the female N word . Why? Fanny Adams to look at, but goes a long way for satisfaction!

Pretty looking weapons does not mean that they deliver as prettily!

If one does not see soldiers on the border with UBGL, does not mean that they are not used.

And which border did you visit, where and when?

 

[sayareakd]

@Kill you have no idea what you are talking about, you better join the Indian Army, then you will know what it is. (BTW if you dont know anything, then better dont make comment about it, at least it will not make you look stupid).

 

[sayareakd]

this pic says it all.

 

[Killswitch]

Hahaha face palm (good one).

The pic of the troops in snow gear is great, never seen that at a parade before.

If the INSAS meets all requirements why is the army asking for it to be replaced after only 12 years in service? Seems odd considering the FAL was in service for over 40 years.

If its so great the army wouldn't want to replace it right?