INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[omaebakabaka]

$5 Billion. That is the annual acquisition budget for the Navy. Right now. By 2026, when will be a $5 Trillion economy, that budget would be $8-9 Billion. By 2030, when we will be a $7.5 Trillion economy, that budget would be $12.5 Billion.
Building the carrier would take from 2023-2030, lets say. And the cost would be around $5 Billion (including the carrier air wing). That is $715 Million per year. Are you telling me that an annual budget in the range of $ 5-12 Billion is insufficient to pay for $715 Million every year?



LHD does make a lot of sense with defending Andaman and Nicobar. We can not afford to lose that. Agree with the rest though.

Once domestic MIC takes root to replace 40% of imports then we should increase defence budget to 5% of GDP to reinvest in ourself and securing our position as great power in the region

LHD does make a lot of sense with defending Andaman and Nicobar. We can not afford to lose that. Agree with the rest though.

How can we lose it in the first place, if we lose it that means it will be even harder to get it back....to me it does not make sense. I prefer attack and preempt rather than defence, so my investments will go mostly towards attack instruments.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

What else are they spending their money on? No subs, no helicopters, no LHD, no fighters, no mine sweepers, no MPA etc etc we are on the verge of Indian shipyards going dry from a lack of orders from IN, where is all the money going?

I do agree that almost no capital acquisitions are planned after the current Nilgiri and Visakhapatnam class are done.
But, hopefully they do buy LHD and helicopters at least. And then there is the corvettes and Fast Supply Ships. But none of that is outside the budgeted amounts for this decade. I mean imagine 8-9 frickin Billion on average every year for the rest of the friggin decade just for Naval acquisitions!

Once domestic MIC takes root to replace 40% of imports then we should increase defence budget to 5% of GDP to reinvest in ourself and securing our position as great power in the region

How can we lose it in the first place, if we lose it that means it will be even harder to get it back....to me it does not make sense. I prefer attack and preempt rather than defence, so my investments will go mostly towards attack instruments.

That is the only hope I have for indigenous MIC, especially the private sector: That once the money starts coming in from rising profit margins due to imports being substituted by DRDO ToTs to private sector, we see the private sector gain a monetary interest in ensuring that Forces buy Indian designed weapons. Because Private Sector can lobby the system to force the Forces to buy indigenous. Maybe we'll see senior officers of Forces being offered post-retirement jobs by Indian Private Sector (in return for them giving preference to indigenous stuff in SQR formation). Kind of like what happens in the US. Once this starts to happen, Chandigarh lobby will be decimated by Indian Private Sector Conglomerates.
.
But there is an activation hump before this snowball effect starts. I don't think Private Sector has yet pinned its hopes on selling to the Forces as a sure shot money making scheme. Which is a bad thing IMHO.

 

[johnj]

$5 Billion. That is the annual acquisition budget for the Navy. Right now. By 2026, when will be a $5 Trillion economy, that budget would be $8-9 Billion. By 2030, when we will be a $7.5 Trillion economy, that budget would be $12.5 Billion.
Building the carrier would take from 2023-2030, lets say. And the cost would be around $5 Billion (including the carrier air wing). That is $715 Million per year. Are you telling me that an annual budget in the range of $ 5-12 Billion is insufficient to pay for $715 Million every year?

You missing the point, IN not only need additional ac but other stuff too, from helios,aircrafts, jets, support ships,ffg,ddg etc, multiple type of drones to sub, and new ones- ssn plus r&d. also e2d etc
and who pays ? and how much ?
Bottom line - iac1 need its mf star/missiles/aew/air craft
Also maintain expenditure, salaries, logistics, supply cost also increasing, plus increasing salary, pensions etc.
a ddg need 250 crew & a ac need 1500-2500 crew.

 

[omaebakabaka]

I do agree that almost no capital acquisitions are planned after the current Nilgiri and Visakhapatnam class are done.
But, hopefully they do buy LHD and helicopters at least. And then there is the corvettes and Fast Supply Ships. But none of that is outside the budgeted amounts for this decade. I mean imagine 8-9 frickin Billion on average every year for the rest of the friggin decade just for Naval acquisitions!


That is the only hope I have for indigenous MIC, especially the private sector: That once the money starts coming in from rising profit margins due to imports being substituted by DRDO ToTs to private sector, we see the private sector gain a monetary interest in ensuring that Forces buy Indian designed weapons. Because Private Sector can lobby the system to force the Forces to buy indigenous. Maybe we'll see senior officers of Forces being offered post-retirement jobs by Indian Private Sector (in return for them giving preference to indigenous stuff in SQR formation). Kind of like what happens in the US. Once this starts to happen, Chandigarh lobby will be decimated by Indian Private Sector Conglomerates.
.
But there is an activation hump before this snowball effect starts. I don't think Private Sector has yet pinned its hopes on selling to the Forces as a sure shot money making scheme. Which is a bad thing IMHO.

Yes, initial ramp up or finding a catalyst that works is a very important aspect of any chemical reaction or ability to change state of something. I hope Yogiji like leader that can change ground reality takes charge after Modiji, we can not sustain imports and its clear to even most dumbest of politicians now and armed forces brass too, so they will make last run dash to maximize their self interests but defence industry will grow barring UPA at the center....

I want to extend the LHD rational a bit, they are useful as 2nd/3rd class citizens once you have a force that is attack oriented like offloading heli recon and landing operations and so on but rightnow they aren't very useful to us but will suck up finances....may be after we get 3 carriers

 

[omaebakabaka]

You missing the point, IN not only need additional ac but other stuff too, from helios,aircrafts, jets, support ships,ffg,ddg etc, multiple type of drones to sub, and new ones- ssn plus r&d. also e2d etc
and who pays ? and how much ?
Bottom line - iac1 need its mf star/missiles/aew/air craft
Also maintain expenditure, salaries, logistics, supply cost also increasing, plus increasing salary, pensions etc.
a ddg need 250 crew & a ac need 1500-2500 crew.

If inflation is under control to a reasonable degree then govt paying salaries is not a primary concern. It is the imports that we need to watch and the budget generally is impactful there as it requires foreign exchange. Imports dependency is our weak point

 

[johnj]

tired of this argument. You don’t pay for these things upfront and they aren’t available off the shelf. A sister ship to Vikrant will be built over 7-8 years and will be substantially cheaper than IAC-1 too. I’m sure GoI/IN can fund $100-200m/year

India’s economy today is where China’s was 15 years ago. But back then they were thinking 20-50 years ahead and their mammoth naval buildup seen today was provisioned for then. Can ANYONE point to evidence that the IN in 15 years from today will be even close to what the PLAN is today? PLAN is making 5 DDGs simultaneously right now, after P-15B IN has no plans to launch additional DDG, best case is there’s 1-2 P-18s floating 15 years from today. It’s a similar story with frigates

There will be 0 additional carriers by that time

can anyone even point to what the IN is planning to do after ~2027 when all 7 P17A, 4 11356 and 4 P-15B are completed? This is only 5 years away so efforts to fill those yards up should be occurring TODAY but we all know how this will go- they’ll wait to 2028-29 and then ‘sanction’ additional ships then to be in service by the mid 2030s.

and then people wonder why large private shipyards don’t exist in india

Wrong answer.
Q- who pays ?
A- IN, once GoI agress.
Rest plan/p18 etc not so important.
So the real question is when Gol pays ?
Here the important point - CSL don't depend on IN like other military dock yard, and can easy survive with out IN orders.
Second point - 36 carrier jets, Sensors, missile for iac1.
Third point - at the end it all about keeping the jobs, and showoff.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

You missing the point, IN not only need additional ac but other stuff too, from helios,aircrafts, jets, support ships,ffg,ddg etc, multiple type of drones to sub, and new ones- ssn plus r&d. also e2d etc
and who pays ? and how much ?
Bottom line - iac1 need its mf star/missiles/aew/air craft
Also maintain expenditure, salaries, logistics, supply cost also increasing, plus increasing salary, pensions etc.
a ddg need 250 crew & a ac need 1500-2500 crew.

Submarines:-
Project 75A: $6 Billion for first three
Project 75I: $3 Billion for first couple (all six can't be built within this decade)
Project 76: Not happening this decade
SSBN: Not under Naval acquisition budget, budgeted under NCA, PMO
.
Major Surface Combatants:-
DDG: None planned for this decade after P-15B
FFG: None planned for this decade after Talwar and Nilgiri class
NGMV: $2.2 Billion
NGC: $3 Billion?
ASW-SWC: $1.1 Billion
.
Other Surface vessels;
LHD: $2 Billion for first couple vessels (all four can't be built within decade)
Fleet Support Ships: $3 Billion
NGOPV: $1 Billion
.
Aircraft:
111 ALH for NUH: $3 Billion
26 MRCBF: $4 Billion?
Sea Guardian: $1 Billion?
.
TOTAL (for the rest of the decade): $29.5 Billion?
.
Total acquisition budget for Navy for this decade (@$8 Billion/year average): $64 Billion
.
Tell me where they'll spend all that remaining money? That is $34.5 Billion that we have no idea how the Navy will spend based on its current plans. Maybe I missed a few acquisitions that end up costing the Navy another $10 Billion. That is still $24.5 Billion more remaining. Where will it all go?

Second point - 36 carrier jets, Sensors, missile for iac1.
Third point - at the end it all about keeping the jobs, and showoff.

WT(actual)F?

 

[NutCracker]

Debate is repeating points .
Let's make few things crystal clear.
1.vikramditya will serve till 2050.
2. Emals only work with nuclear power pushing the total costs up.
3. Catobar is much better than stobar since jets can fly with full load and hence 20 jets from catobar can do the job of 40 on stobar.
Which means you save on jets and on pilot's and training much more.
4. Catobar + conventional power could work.

5. AWACS can be launched with catobar.

Regular tube lights?

They should be LED and its sufficient.

 

[johnj]

If inflation is under control to a reasonable degree then govt paying salaries is not a primary concern. It is the imports that we need to watch and the budget generally is impactful there as it requires foreign exchange. Imports dependency is our weak point

And how is going those far.
IA stuck.
IAF want to spend billions abroad and not giving enough importance local ones
Only left is IN, and lacking minesweepers, lhd & hospital ship.
Insisted of other AC[additional iac1| better focus on lhd, hospital ship, ssk with tot, and rest minesweepers, support vessel later

 

[johnj]

WT(actual)F?

Chinese. Not irrelevant for Indian side

 

[omaebakabaka]

And how is going those far.
IA stuck.
IAF want to spend billions abroad and not giving enough importance local ones
Only left is IN, and lacking minesweepers, lhd & hospital ship.
Insisted of other AC[additional iac1| better focus on lhd, hospital ship, ssk with tot, and rest minesweepers, support vessel later

IN is in a state due to UPA that neglected and depleted the fleet along with couple of bad admirals. No quick fix available, on the bright side, ssbn's are coming out nicely. IAC-1 is a big accomplishment and worthy of encore. Rest all no matter what is going to be painfully time consuming....IAF has a path forward with Tejas and its follow ups into the next decade and GOI made sure by signing orders....delays for sure but its set. I am ok spending money to replenish sqauds since we have a baselined plan with Tejas. IA is a total fuck up....other than infrastructure development, they are a mess

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Chinese. Not irrelevant for Indian side

I have no idea what you just said. But more importantly, answer this instead of ignoring it:-

Submarines:-
Project 75A: $6 Billion for first three
Project 75I: $3 Billion for first couple (all six can't be built within this decade)
Project 76: Not happening this decade
SSBN: Not under Naval acquisition budget, budgeted under NCA, PMO
.
Major Surface Combatants:-
DDG: None planned for this decade after P-15B
FFG: None planned for this decade after Talwar and Nilgiri class
NGMV: $2.2 Billion
NGC: $3 Billion?
ASW-SWC: $1.1 Billion
.
Other Surface vessels;
LHD: $2 Billion for first couple vessels (all four can't be built within decade)
Fleet Support Ships: $3 Billion
NGOPV: $1 Billion
.
Aircraft:
111 ALH for NUH: $3 Billion
26 MRCBF: $4 Billion?
Sea Guardian: $1 Billion?
.
TOTAL (for the rest of the decade): $29.5 Billion?
.
Total acquisition budget for Navy for this decade (@$8 Billion/year average): $64 Billion
.
Tell me where they'll spend all that remaining money? That is $34.5 Billion that we have no idea how the Navy will spend based on its current plans. Maybe I missed a few acquisitions that end up costing the Navy another $10 Billion. That is still $24.5 Billion more remaining. Where will it all go?

 

[Adm Kenobi]

IEP itself is facing a lot of issues in the real world (I’m sure you’re aware of the T45 debacle)

Very interesting, you choose to give a unique example that does not contribute to the discussion at hand. The problem with type 45 is unique to itself, there are other boats like QEC, Zumwalt, Juan Carlos I and several vessels in JMSDF, RN & RAN which work fine with their IEP/IFEP

it’s a question that deserves serious thought especially when you consider most seem to think that EMALS would need nuclear propulsion to be optimised, that’s an entirely new set of complications.

Reality doesn't care about what the majority thinks.

this rate IAC-2 will be all singing and dancing but entering service in the 2050s

Are you willing to bet a million on that or it's just your usual shitposting?

the IN needs carriers quickly too

The cabinet needs to approve a fleet of 3 carriers for that to happen!

A sister ship to Vikrant will be built over 7-8 years and will be substantially cheaper than IAC-1 too.

No it won't, the level of inflation that this growing country has witnessed/is witnessing/will witness will not allow that to happen. Even the projected cost of P17A repeat order (expected to be placed in 2024-25) is going to be 20-30% more expensive!

Can ANYONE point to evidence that the IN in 15 years from today will be even close to what the PLAN is today?

Different requirement results in different goals, we don't need 50-60 submarines, 40 DDG & 50 FFG in the next 15 yrs. Our in the next 15 yrs is more in line with 25-30 submarines, 20 DDG, 30 FFG.

PLAN is making 5 DDGs simultaneously right now

IN is building 9 FFG & 3 DDG simultaneously right now, under different stages of completion.

after P-15B IN has no plans to launch additional DDG, best case is there’s 1-2 P-18s floating 15 years from today. It’s a similar story with frigates

Maybe ask your friends in the cabinet to approve a larger fleet for the Navy? Maybe they'll listen to you, you seem very knowledgeable, I'm sure they won't be able to resist whatever you have to offer. & NGD is to start construction in 2026-28, the last P-15B DDG will be delivered in 2025. As for the frigate fleet, IN will achieve 23 out of the 24 currently sanctioned & has been contemplating the case for a repeat order of P-17A as confirmed by MDL, it is now upto the cabinet to approve it, but you couldn't read that because YOUR BITCHY ARSE CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT

There will be 0 additional carriers by that time

Get the cabinet to approve a fleet of 3 carrier tomorrow and I'll personally make sure that you'll see a new carrier by 2035-36 (<15 yrs). Deal?

can anyone even point to what the IN is planning to do after ~2027 when all 7 P17A, 4 11356 and 4 P-15B are completed?

8 NGC will be ordered in 2024-25, will provide capability that is far superior when compared to Talwar repeat in every dimension, 11356 by GSL are to be delivered by 2026-27.
6 NGMV, similar ASuW, better AAW capability when compared to Talwar class 'frigate'. ASW capability isn't present because it's not required for this type of role, order to be placed in this fiscal or early-mid next FY.
Autonomous minesweepers, under development & expected to be completed around 2027, it can be manufactured quickly thereafter. Initiative is taken by the Navy, so don't come with your BS of 'they'll take 10 more years to test'.
11 NG OPV, shipyards finalised, will help relieve some capital ships that have to go on foreign deployment therefore increasing the readiness of the Navy to fight, every ship contributes.
16 ASW SWC, they'll play a key role for the protection of our coast, don't dis them by saying 'it's just a <1000T corvette' every ship contributes.
5 NGD, order to be placed in 2026-28 as said earlier, the case is already present with the cabinet, Navy is seeking approval this FY. You will get all 5 of these in next 15 years if the cabinet approves everything on time!

This is only 5 years away so efforts to fill those yards up should be occurring TODAY but we all know how this will go- they’ll wait to 2028-29 and then ‘sanction’ additional ships then to be in service by the mid 2030s.

Navy HQ has been making effort for a larger fleet for years now, it's upto thr CCS to sanction a larger fleet, not the Navy. Maybe start ranting on the people who are actually to blame rather than just blaming the IN for civil cabinet's fault.

and then people wonder why large private shipyards don’t exist in india

Because they bankrupt themselves even before entering the market? Everybody knows what happened with 'large pvt shipyard' known as Pipavav, it was their undoing. Another pvt shipyard was involved in a scam recently, ABG AGS something. Pvt entities aren't free of blame, & it's not IN' responsibility to keep every pvt shipyard alive, that demand is to come from the transport services.

Why can't we have a nuclear powered carrier powered by 2* 190MWt CLWR-B2 reactors ?? Charles deGaulle weighs 42.5K tons and has 2*150MWt reactors, we can also have a IAC-1 class ship with nuclear power & CATOBAR

CDG is a compromised aircraft carrier, the recent refit with K-15 only allows it to run on full speed for some time, short bursts. 2×190mW (th) are not enough for a ship spanning around 300m long, you'll need a new reactors (2×220mW or above), and our production capacity is another bottleneck, we have to produce reactors for 9 nuclear powered submarines in the 15 yr timeframe. Anything less than 280m & 15,000m² is a compromise. You'll get a clean sheet design if you go ahead and try to modify IAC-1' design for catapults and nuclear reactors. Conventional IAC-2 is more feasible when compared to a CVN IAC-1.

What else are they spending their money on? No subs, no helicopters, no LHD, no fighters, no mine sweepers, no MPA etc etc we are on the verge of Indian shipyards going dry from a lack of orders from IN, where is all the money going?

You have no minesweepers because of the GSL, sub contract will be signed in the next 5 years with assurance from IN that the next sub class will be indigenous (with some consultancy). Navy only got the budget bump in FY21-22, budget was limited before that, the reason why we went with 24 NMRH instead of 123. & ALH/LUH has been finalised for NUH. There will be no additional P-8I because the govt delays in the deal signing in mid 2010s.
Navy has been overspending for the past 2 years, the liabilities (for projects already signed) is more than 1.7L cr, shipyards aren't going dry because of orders. All 4 shipyards under MoD are making something & have won the bid for more. GSL, MDL, GRSE, HSL all ARE busy with ongoing projects & will REMAIN busy with 8 NGC (they aren't 'small') 6 NGMV, 11 NG OPV, & 7 P-17A r/O. CSL is a commercial yard under GoI, & Navy has already made the case for another IAC.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

5% of GDP

& collapse like how USSR did, right? Military isn't the only sector in India, I have already pointed this out in a previous post just a couple of days ago!

How can we lose it in the first place, if we lose it that means it will be even harder to get it back....to me it does not make sense. I prefer attack and preempt rather than defence, so my investments will go mostly towards attack instruments.

Yes, no need for AAW escorts or any kind of retaliatory strike option like SSBNs, just fill the ships up with BruhMos & you'll be alright, right?
HADR is the most important thing that an LPD/LHD does, govt of Odisha & Maharashtra should buy one for themselves.
& the ASW capabilities that an LHD can provide for a theatre is unmatched when compared to any other type of vessels.

Submarines:-
Project 75A: $6 Billion for first three
Project 75I: $3 Billion for first couple (all six can't be built within this decade)
Project 76: Not happening this decade
SSBN: Not under Naval acquisition budget, budgeted under NCA, PMO
.
Major Surface Combatants:-
DDG: None planned for this decade after P-15B
FFG: None planned for this decade after Talwar and Nilgiri class
NGMV: $2.2 Billion
NGC: $3 Billion?
ASW-SWC: $1.1 Billion
.
Other Surface vessels;
LHD: $2 Billion for first couple vessels (all four can't be built within decade)
Fleet Support Ships: $3 Billion
NGOPV: $1 Billion
.
Aircraft:
111 ALH for NUH: $3 Billion
26 MRCBF: $4 Billion?
Sea Guardian: $1 Billion?
.
TOTAL (for the rest of the decade): $29.5 Billion?
.
Total acquisition budget for Navy for this decade (@$8 Billion/year average): $64 Billion
.
Tell me where they'll spend all that remaining money? That is $34.5 Billion that we have no idea how the Navy will spend based on its current plans. Maybe I missed a few acquisitions that end up costing the Navy another $10 Billion. That is still $24.5 Billion more remaining. Where will it all go?

I'll answer this tomorrow, a small advice, use INR instead of USD for indigenous platforms & USD only for foreign equipments, like MRCBF.

 

[jai jaganath]

Very interesting, you choose to give a unique example that does not contribute to the discussion at hand. The problem with type 45 is unique to itself, there are other boats like QEC, Zumwalt, Juan Carlos I and several vessels in JMSDF, RN & RAN which work fine with their IEP/IFEP

Reality doesn't care about what the majority thinks.

Are you willing to bet a million on that or it's just your usual shitposting?

The cabinet needs to approve a fleet of 3 carriers for that to happen!

No it won't, the level of inflation that this growing country has witnessed/is witnessing/will witness will not allow that to happen. Even the projected cost of P17A repeat order (expected to be placed in 2024-25) is going to be 20-30% more expensive!


Different requirement results in different goals, we don't need 50-60 submarines, 40 DDG & 50 FFG in the next 15 yrs. Our in the next 15 yrs is more in line with 25-30 submarines, 20 DDG, 30 FFG.

IN is building 9 FFG & 3 DDG simultaneously right now, under different stages of completion.

Maybe ask your friends in the cabinet to approve a larger fleet for the Navy? Maybe they'll listen to you, you seem very knowledgeable, I'm sure they won't be able to resist whatever you have to offer. & NGD is to start construction in 2026-28, the last P-15B DDG will be delivered in 2025. As for the frigate fleet, IN will achieve 23 out of the 24 currently sanctioned & has been contemplating the case for a repeat order of P-17A as confirmed by MDL, it is now upto the cabinet to approve it, but you couldn't read that because YOUR BITCHY ARSE CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT

Get the cabinet to approve a fleet of 3 carrier tomorrow and I'll personally make sure that you'll see a new carrier by 2035-36 (<15 yrs). Deal?

8 NGC will be ordered in 2024-25, will provide capability that is far superior when compared to Talwar repeat in every dimension, 11356 by GSL are to be delivered by 2026-27.
6 NGMV, similar ASuW, better AAW capability when compared to Talwar class 'frigate'. ASW capability isn't present because it's not required for this type of role, order to be placed in this fiscal or early-mid next FY.
Autonomous minesweepers, under development & expected to be completed around 2027, it can be manufactured quickly thereafter. Initiative is taken by the Navy, so don't come with your BS of 'they'll take 10 more years to test'.
11 NG OPV, shipyards finalised, will help relieve some capital ships that have to go on foreign deployment therefore increasing the readiness of the Navy to fight, every ship contributes.
16 ASW SWC, they'll play a key role for the protection of our coast, don't dis them by saying 'it's just a <1000T corvette' every ship contributes.
5 NGD, order to be placed in 2026-28 as said earlier, the case is already present with the cabinet, Navy is seeking approval this FY. You will get all 5 of these in next 15 years if the cabinet approves everything on time!

Navy HQ has been making effort for a larger fleet for years now, it's upto thr CCS to sanction a larger fleet, not the Navy. Maybe start ranting on the people who are actually to blame rather than just blaming the IN for civil cabinet's fault.

Because they bankrupt themselves even before entering the market? Everybody knows what happened with 'large pvt shipyard' known as Pipavav, it was their undoing. Another pvt shipyard was involved in a scam recently, ABG AGS something. Pvt entities aren't free of blame, & it's not IN' responsibility to keep every pvt shipyard alive, that demand is to come from the transport services.

CDG is a compromised aircraft carrier, the recent refit with K-15 only allows it to run on full speed for some time, short bursts. 2×190mW (th) are not enough for a ship spanning around 300m long, you'll need a new reactors (2×220mW or above), and our production capacity is another bottleneck, we have to produce reactors for 9 nuclear powered submarines in the 15 yr timeframe. Anything less than 280m & 15,000m² is a compromise. You'll get a clean sheet design if you go ahead and try to modify IAC-1' design for catapults and nuclear reactors. Conventional IAC-2 is more feasible when compared to a CVN IAC-1.

You have no minesweepers because of the GSL, sub contract will be signed in the next 5 years with assurance from IN that the next sub class will be indigenous (with some consultancy). Navy only got the budget bump in FY21-22, budget was limited before that, the reason why we went with 24 NMRH instead of 123. & ALH/LUH has been finalised for NUH. There will be no additional P-8I because the govt delays in the deal signing in mid 2010s.
Navy has been overspending for the past 2 years, the liabilities (for projects already signed) is more than 1.7L cr, shipyards aren't going dry because of orders. All 4 shipyards under MoD are making something & have won the bid for more. GSL, MDL, GRSE, HSL all ARE busy with ongoing projects & will REMAIN busy with 8 NGC (they aren't 'small') 6 NGMV, 11 NG OPV, & 7 P-17A r/O. CSL is a commercial yard under GoI, & Navy has already made the case for another IAC.

I have a doubt in recent article it's written that repeat orders for p-17a class frigates or p-17b will be given this decade so can we expect construction to begin this decade

 

[omaebakabaka]

@Adm Kenobi

I remember seeing similar plans back in mid to late 2000's, so your optimism will not translate into reality in time especially for projects that have not already produced a lead ship. I agree its cabinet that need to set this in motion, they should fund anything including follow up to IAC-1 with improved characteristics as one is produced already. Your argument about inflation is not serious. Rupee is not a strong currency and with decent foreign reserves and more local content, increase in cost is bearable. You have not presented an argument why it makes sense not to do IAC1 follow up and relying on IAC-2 which is still in design phase.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Yes, no need for AAW escorts or any kind of retaliatory strike option like SSBNs, just fill the ships up with BruhMos & you'll be alright, right?
HADR is the most important thing that an LPD/LHD does, govt of Odisha & Maharashtra should buy one for themselves.
& the ASW capabilities that an LHD can provide for a theatre is unmatched when compared to any other type of vessels.

Right, all SSBN activity by every navy that has them is dependent on having LHD recon, what crap of bs and a stretch. An lhd is not going to get the andaman back if we were to lose it in the context of war.....I agree with ASW capabilities of recon helis but if money is limited then I would prioritize attack instruments over lhd's. Recon can be done via other means, we are mostly IOR navy. Sure if you have money and we can build LHD quicker than other ships then go for it.....LHD's can also be purchased if necessary, carriers are hard to come by in terms of need or time.

 

[johnj]

IN is in a state due to UPA that neglected and depleted the fleet along with couple of bad admirals. No quick fix available, on the bright side, ssbn's are coming out nicely. IAC-1 is a big accomplishment and worthy of encore. Rest all no matter what is going to be painfully time consuming....IAF has a path forward with Tejas and its follow ups into the next decade and GOI made sure by signing orders....delays for sure but its set. I am ok spending money to replenish sqauds since we have a baselined plan with Tejas. IA is a total fuck up....other than infrastructure development, they are a mess

IN have no economical issue so far.
If you go back, CDS asked about naval planning, considering new CV[iac2], and articles about ssk vs iac2.
So question still remains - who is going to pay for additional iac1 ?
IA faced economical issues, they made some modification, now ok
IAF comes with afnet
IN reduced its requirement.

 

[omaebakabaka]

IN have no economical issue so far.
If you go back, CDS asked about naval planning, considering new CV[iac2], and articles about ssk vs iac2.
So question still remains - who is going to pay for additional iac1 ?
IA faced economical issues, they made some modification, now ok
IAF comes with afnet
IN reduced its requirement.

All the more reason for IN to focus on encore's when lead ships of a class are already built knowing the cabinet decision making as part of the original plan. No reason to deviate unless they casually wrote the proposals that were approved by cabinet. Single class ships are luxury we should not be doing. Let the ship yards do it on their dime. I am not following your complaint here....if IAC-1 was approved, then was it approved based on just one ship of the class followed by a totally different IAC-2? If so who wrote this proposal and why it was approved.....we are not USSR or US. Not building a ship on time that we need and that we could is a costly mistake....there is no replacement for that

 

[johnj]

I have no idea what you just said. But more importantly, answer this instead of ignoring it:-

what about on going ones ?
iac2.
mcmv
uav
Hospital Ship and other vessels
P17b.
chakra
Q- list involves missiles ?
by the thanks for the list
Also there is no additional iac1 so far. and last time I read- goi/cds giving importance to ssk/ssn and asked[cds] how navy going to afford all these ?
who is going to pay for additional iac1 ?