INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[abingdonboy]

There is a big difference between being operational and being able to undertake high tempo high endurance operations when shit hits the roof. Vikramaditya is just a trainer carrier. That's it

Vikky is being treated like MiG-21s- used as infrequently as possible to keep the likelihood of disaster as low as possible. But if conflict is inevitable they’ll be used and fully operational

it’s not going anywhere for at least 15 years, I doubt the IN can afford to go back to 1 carrier given their need to have continuous at-sea carrier experience and the expertise that goes with it.

that said I’m 100% convinced the IN will be a 2 carrier force at least until the mid 2040s (when IAC-2 becomes a reality Vikky will be gone) by which time PLAN will have >6 CBG. GoI is eliminating any advantage IN had in IOR and ceding the entire AO to them. No carriers, no subs, no ISR and few ASW assets. It’s not even funny how big the disparity will be in a decade, right Now PLAN has 7 destroyers under simultaneous production whilst IN struggles to induct 4 they ordered a decade back

 

[Blademaster]

Vikky is being treated like MiG-21s- used as infrequently as possible to keep the likelihood of disaster as low as possible. But if conflict is inevitable they’ll be used and fully operational

it’s not going anywhere for at least 15 years, I doubt the IN can afford to go back to 1 carrier given their need to have continuous at-sea carrier experience and the expertise that goes with it.

that said I’m 100% convinced the IN will be a 2 carrier force at least until the mid 2040s (when IAC-2 becomes a reality Vikky will be gone) by which time PLAN will have >6 CBG. GoI is eliminating any advantage IN had in IOR and ceding the entire AO to them. No carriers, no subs, no ISR and few ASW assets. It’s not even funny how big the disparity will be in a decade, right Now PLAN has 7 destroyers under simultaneous production whilst IN struggles to induct 4 they ordered a decade back

I think GoI's plan is to ride the coattails of USN with QUAD cheaply as possible.

 

[abingdonboy]

I think GoI's plan is to ride the coattails of USN with QUAD cheaply as possible.

Good joke. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has already shown that india and the US aren’t on the same page strategically speaking.

the US will sell india out to China the moment it is convenient to do so

 

[abingdonboy]

Does the new INS Vikrant has aircrafts on it or not.

The order for F-18 or Naval Rafale is not coming so soon as their is a money shortage. Hence how will this large ship be used in case of trouble.

It’s not even about money so much as neither option really works.

it’s highly unlikely both IN carriers will be put to sea simultaneously (other than for some PR and high level exercises). They’ll just flog the ~40 odd MIG-29K to death (sadly this is quite literal). The 2020s and 2030s are going to be a very rough time for Indian carrier history, there will be a lot of tragedy and shortcomings but IN only has themselves to blame for this

 

[abingdonboy]

One guy in that thread..
I didnt verify yet .

More like they gave the contract to Russia who turned around and designed the entire complex around the 29K knowing this would leave IN with no option but to buy more 29Ks. IN then found 29Ks unsuitable for high intensity carrier Ops and this entire debacle about lifts became a fanboys’ favourite pastime. I notice no one ever mentions the RGS on the 2 carriers that too is only designed for the 29K. The lifts are just emblematic of the issue, the root cause is the IN being myopic and dare I say compromised (how many Russian honey traps are out there? )

 

[abingdonboy]

That would be bad idea. Take the Vikrant as a baseline, expand it slightly and convert to EMALS catobar. a 50k tonne CATOBAR carrier that can carry 30+ fixed wing fighters.

Instead of getting obsessed with unobtainable goals that will only lead to delays and massive cost. Why not go for proven tech like steam cats

IN is not the USN with 11 carriers that can afford to have 2-3 experimenting with futuristic tech like EMALS.

as usual perfect is the enemy of good enough to Indian armed forces. They’d rather limp along with 1.5 carriers than make a compromise

 

[abingdonboy]

Current talks are about getting a new carrier asap which is possible with Vikrant class only.

new catobar carrier will make them go to design phase which will alone take long time and construction start to completion will take 10-15 yrs easily.

There are no such talks. It’s a genuine offer from CSL but it’s nothing new, they’ve been saying this openly for a few years so one can imagine they’ve been telling IN privately this for many years before that but IN only has eyes for their 65K ton EMALS equipped all singing all dancing super carrier, even if it’s not coming for 2 decades.

 

[abingdonboy]

Regarding the 3rd AC, it will be a 60k-65k tonne conventionally powered carrier. Most probably CATOBAR. Although heard from some corners that BEL is working on EMALS. The new 300m long dry dock is being constructed at a rapid pace in Kochi.

Even the US is struggling to make EMALS work, BEL might deliver something useful in the 2060s.

what’s absurd about all this is that once again we/IN are only talking about a single carrier class, why are they inducting carriers like this? It ensures they’ll never have more than 2-3 in service at any one time. If they want such a radical departure from IAC-1 then the IAC-2 class should at least have 2 vessels otherwise it’ll be another 15-20 year break after IAC-2 is inducted.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Instead of getting obsessed with unobtainable goals that will only lead to delays and massive cost. Why not go for proven tech like steam cats

IN is not the USN with 11 carriers that can afford to have 2-3 experimenting with futuristic tech like EMALS.

as usual perfect is the enemy of good enough to Indian armed forces. They’d rather limp along with 1.5 carriers than make a compromise

Whoever is talking emals need to chill out.....all signs indicate another 2 carriers are on the plate and will definitely come. Get the hornets and put the fire under the tedbf program....really only choices. China may build 100s of ships but they can't really control IOR unless they build bases around us which is what they are tryig to do....we just need to invest in denial aspects massively (missiles) and scuttle them from land in the first few hours of any war. Not doing anything is definitely a defeat like Nepal and SL.

 

[abingdonboy]

Whoever is talking emals need to chill out.....all signs indicate another 2 carriers are on the plate and will definitely come. Get the hornets and put the fire under the tedbf program....really only choices. China may build 100s of ships but they can't really control IOR unless they build bases around us which is what they are tryig to do....we just need to invest in denial aspects massively (missiles) and scuttle them from land in the first few hours of any war. Not doing anything is definitely a defeat like Nepal and SL.

If you have a choice I have no idea why you’d go for SH over Rafale-M especially if you are going to also make additional carriers and this time can avoid making the absurd decision to design the entire thing around the 29K

 

[omaebakabaka]

If you have a choice I have no idea why you’d go for SH over Rafale-M especially if you are going to also make additional carriers and this time can avoid making the absurd decision to design the entire thing around the 29K

Rafale-M would be the ideal option considering we already have them but its just may not be ready based on IN not giving it much attention, probably lot of refinements need to be made by Dassault and may not ready for export quality yet. Hornets may be old but for our threats, its more than enough and they are proven too. Just the need of the hour and bump the tedbf to equal priority as mk2.....we need 5 carriers for 1 trillion of economy and unfriendly neighbors and vast coast line and 6 ssbn's and another 6 to 8 ssns....serious navy is what we need and AF mostly against China. Navy should choke the fuck out of Pakis

Ofcourse I pulled these numbers out of my ass but I really do think we need MIC to get the bitches around us in line and we can only do that if we create a decent deterrent against west with an export potential

 

[WolfPack86]

INDIA'S 1ST INDIGENOUS AIRCRAFT CARRIER 'VIKRANT' TO BE COMMISSIONED ON SEPTEMBER 2: REPORT
Kochi: Prime Minister Narendra Modi will commission the country's first indigenously-built aircraft carrier (IAC) Vikrant on September 2, official sources said.

The Prime Minister will officially induct the vessel to the Indian Navy at a specially arranged venue inside the Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL) here, which manufactured the over ₹ 20,000 crore warship.

The Indian Navy had on July 28 taken delivery of the carrier from CSL after it had successfully completed the fourth and the final phase of the sea trials last month.

"The event is currently scheduled to be held on September 2 at CSL jetty. The retired staff of INS Vikrant, India's first aircraft carrier, officials of defence, shipping ministries and the state government among others are set to participate," sources told PTI.

They said an attendance of 1500-2000 people is likely.

The IAC would serve to bolster India's position in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and its quest for a blue water Navy.

Fighter jets have been brought to the aircraft which is set to operate MiG-29K fighter jets, Kamov-31 helicopters and MH-60R multi-role helicopters.

With the delivery of 'Vikrant', India has joined a select group of nations having the niche capability to indigenously design and build an aircraft carrier.

Designed by Indian Navy's in-house Directorate of Naval Design (DND) and built by the CSL, a Public Sector Shipyard under the Ministry of Ports, Shipping and Waterways, the carrier is christened after her illustrious predecessor, India's first Aircraft Carrier which played a vital role in the 1971 Indo-Pak war.

It has over 2,300 compartments, designed for a crew of around 1700 people, including specialised cabins to accommodate women officers.

Vikrant has a top speed of around 28 knots and a cruising speed of 18 knots with an endurance of about 7,500 nautical miles.

The IAC is 262 metres long, 62 metres wide and has a height of 59 metres. Its construction began in 2009.

The flight deck of the IAC is comparable to two football grounds and by walking through the corridors of the massive vessel, one will cover eight kilometres.

The eight power generators onboard IAC are enough to light up Kochi city and the warship contains a dedicated hospital complex with all facilities.

India's 1st Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 'Vikrant' To Be Commissioned On September 2: Report

PM Modi will officially induct 'IAC Vikrant' to the Indian Navy Kochi: Prime Minister Narendra Modi will commission the country's first ind...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[binayak95]

Instead of getting obsessed with unobtainable goals that will only lead to delays and massive cost. Why not go for proven tech like steam cats

IN is not the USN with 11 carriers that can afford to have 2-3 experimenting with futuristic tech like EMALS.

as usual perfect is the enemy of good enough to Indian armed forces. They’d rather limp along with 1.5 carriers than make a compromise

Because steam cats need boilers. Fuel oil/diesel fired boilers that make life on board hell.

First of all, it's a bloody nightmare to maintain the things, second, it's incapable of rapid deployment. It takes half a day straight to get the boilers running from a cold start.


AND then we come to the detrimental effects of steam cats on aircraft. More wear, more stress than EMALS.

You combine IEP with say the RR M30, and not only do you get the benefits of EMALS but also pave the way for DEW.

IEP is the future. P18 and NGF will have them.

 

[Adm Kenobi]

Instead of getting obsessed with unobtainable goals that will only lead to delays and massive cost. Why not go for proven tech like steam cats

IN is not the USN with 11 carriers that can afford to have 2-3 experimenting with futuristic tech like EMALS.

as usual perfect is the enemy of good enough to Indian armed forces. They’d rather limp along with 1.5 carriers than make a compromise

So you want IN to go for a CVN with steam catapults? Because a separate steam generating system will eat up a lot of space, the space that could be used to store fuel and ammunition. Steam catapults on a conventionally powered carrier is even more retarded idea than EM catapults on a CV. GA's EM catapults will be mature enough to procure in the coming years, there's no more 'experimenting' when going with EM catapults compared to steam.

& IAC-2 isn't 2 decades away.

 

[binayak95]

Even the US is struggling to make EMALS work, BEL might deliver something useful in the 2060s.

what’s absurd about all this is that once again we/IN are only talking about a single carrier class, why are they inducting carriers like this? It ensures they’ll never have more than 2-3 in service at any one time. If they want such a radical departure from IAC-1 then the IAC-2 class should at least have 2 vessels otherwise it’ll be another 15-20 year break after IAC-2 is inducted.

We have congressional clearance to get EMALS from GA. Don't see any reason whatsoever to develop a niche use case item in India.

 

[Javelin_Sam]

Yes. Steam Catapaults on a conventionally powered AC is not an optimal solution. The space required and fuel that has to be burned is HUGE..

 

[IndianHawk]

Debate is repeating points .
Let's make few things crystal clear.
1.vikramditya will serve till 2050.
2. Emals only work with nuclear power pushing the total costs up.
3. Catobar is much better than stobar since jets can fly with full load and hence 20 jets from catobar can do the job of 40 on stobar.
Which means you save on jets and on pilot's and training much more.
4. Catobar + conventional power could work.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Debate is repeating points .
Let's make few things crystal clear.
1.vikramditya will serve till 2050.
2. Emals only work with nuclear power pushing the total costs up.
3. Catobar is much better than stobar since jets can fly with full load and hence 20 jets from catobar can do the job of 40 on stobar.
Which means you save on jets and on pilot's and training much more.
4. Catobar + conventional power could work.

Whole thread is repeat loop of the mentioned points in regular interval.

 

[Bhaubai]

More images

 

[IndianHawk]

French ??lol, they are buying from USA.
France buying EMALS & AAG for 2 carrier from USA.

Only one Carrier ! French have plan to replace de gulle withe one only one PANG carrier which will be nuclear powered and with emals. It will come by 2040.