INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[pmaitra]

So that will be parking space then? More room for fighter or is that for ballast against the extended deck to the port side?

Not sure what that extra space is for but i looks like it can comfortably park a few fighters there.

I think starboard side extension was needed to balance the extended deck on the port side.

I doubt that space on the starboard side, adjacent to the island, can be used for parking fighters, but front of it, and behind it, fighters can be parked, as in the diagram I posted earlier.

 

[pmaitra]

We are expecting Russia to deliver like they did during Soviet era,but the truth is that
infrastructure is gone now they are buying ships from France and UAV from Israel.

I get the impression they are building up their infrastrcture, much of which was lost or went into disrepair after the collapse of the USSR. Regarding buying ships, I think Russia is only getting two Mistrals from France and building the rest (2 or 3?) in Russia itself. They decided to go for Israeli UAVs because domestic productions had already started but their performance was pathetic.

 

[noob101]

While selling their old junk to us at current prices, while buying new stuff from outside as well as putting our money into their R&D, we keep on buying Sukhoi's and T-90's while they dont even buy anything, even though their forces are crumbling, they have decided to move ahead and make a new defense industry at our expense.

I wouldn't be so cynical of the Russians, we need them as much as they need us. Plus they do provide a lot of Technology and production to us.... for example the Talwar class frigates there is no way we would have been able to meet the production of these vessels even with a delayed timeline.....

Ultimately India benefits in some way or form from what ever kind of research takes place, some times their help has been priceless ex Brahmos .......
if we still want this cow to keep giving us milk then we should keep feeding it grass!!!!!!!

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I think starboard side extension was needed to balance the extended deck on the port side.

I doubt that space on the starboard side, adjacent to the island, can be used for parking fighters, but front of it, and behind it, fighters can be parked, as in the diagram I posted earlier.

Defiantly LCAs can be parked in tandem, more over it would be a bad ballast for the extra weight.

 

[Adux]

I wouldn't be so cynical of the Russians, we need them as much as they need us. Plus they do provide a lot of Technology and production to us.... for example the Talwar class frigates there is no way we would have been able to meet the production of these vessels even with a delayed timeline.....

Ultimately India benefits in some way or form from what ever kind of research takes place, some times their help has been priceless ex Brahmos .......
if we still want this cow to keep giving us milk then we should keep feeding it grass!!!!!!!

I nearly got involved in the defense industry before, trust me I know. Russians are ready to sell anything to anyone. Ask the Chinese.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I get th eimpression they are building up their infrastrcture, much of which was lost or went into disrepair after the collapse of the USSR. Regarding buying ships, I think Russia is only getting two Mistrals from France and building the rest (2 or 3?) in Russia itself. They decided to go for Israeli UAVs because domestic productions had already started but their performance was pathetic.

Many navy yards in Russia have closed. The Gorshokov was originally sold cheaply to
keep one of their last yards open. The deal was made the yard stayed open and the price
of gorshokov was raised (but Russia did not plan it like that?)

 

[pmaitra]

Many navy yards in Russia have closed. The Gorshokov was originally sold cheaply to
keep one of their last yards open. The deal was made the yard stayed open and the price
of gorshokov was raised (but Russia did not plan it like that?)

From what I hear, they had many issues:

• The rusting bulk of metal was offered for free, but the repairs were not.
• Russia gave one estimate for the repairs, but later discovered that it needed more repairs. So it was their fault that they did not give good estimates.
• I assume the estimate also included refurbishing their shipyard, because many of the machinery were not in working condition.
• After the collapse of the USSR, many of the trained staff were not available. Many had migrated, while others were doing something else.
• I recall someone claiming that Russia, after the mid-term price escalation, offered to return the money and sell it to the Chinese. I am not sure how much of this is true.
• The estimates, that were already faulty, also suffered from the fact that the delays and rise in per capita income in Russia forced the Russians to hire workers at higher wages and thus raise the price. This is true. The windfall from energy sales actually boosted the Russian economy.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

 

[LETHALFORCE]

3 carrier comparisions (kitty hawk no longer offered)

 

[pmaitra]

Aircraft carrier or aviation cruiser?

Why is Baku or Admiral Gorshkov not quite an aircraft carrier, but an aviation cruiser or aircraft carrying cruiser?

INS Vikramaditya will be different though!

Very interesting stuff!

Unlike American or British carriers, the Kiev class is a combination of a cruiser and a carrier. In the Soviet Navy this class of ships was specifically designated as a heavy aviation cruiser rather than just an aircraft carrier. Although the ships were designed with an island superstructure to starboard, with a 2/3 length angled flight deck, the foredeck was taken up with the heavy missile armament. The intended mission of the Kiev class was support for strategic missile submarines, other surface ships and naval aviation; it was capable of engaging in anti-aircraft, anti-submarine and surface warfare.

Source: Kiev class aircraft carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess, we cannot call INS Vikramaditya Kiev Class anymore. Perhaps we can call it Kiev 2 Class?

Baku aka Admiral Gorshkov, a Kiev Class Aviation Cruiser:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Adux]

I recall someone claiming that Russia, after the mid-term price escalation, offered to return the money and sell it to the Chinese. I am not sure how much of this is true.

wow, thats nice of a strategic friend

 

[Godless-Kafir]

I got an IDEA, That Island is really as big as an ship, such an waste of space.

Cant we open up the flight deck floor of the island to park more fighters there??

We can surely park 10 more fighters in the ground floor(flight deck) if it is opened up instead of being sealed that way.

 

[latsar]

This should the last aircraft carrier that India brought from other countries ,India should stick to its own home grown program

 

[john70]

Vikramaditya sea trials to begin on may 25 :

INS Vikramaditya, which is currently undergoing harbor trials, will start sea trails as scheduled on May 25, and be handed over to India on December 4, 2012, Russia's Sevmash shipyard announced on April 6, 2012. [via Ria Novosti]

For the sea trials, the ship will sail to the White Sea and then on to the Barents Sea where it will stay for three to four months.

Flight operations will start two or three weeks into the sea trials.

It was earlier reported that a MiG-35D demonstrator (side number 154) fitted with an arrester hook will take part in the sea trials, replacing the two-seat MiG-29KUB side number 951, which crashed at Akhtubinsk earlier in 2011.

A single-seat MiG-29K side number 941 will also fly in the trials. It earlier flew trials on Russia's only aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kutnetsov.

"After sea trials are complete, we plan to transfer the carrier to India by December 4," Sevmash said today.

User (Indian Navy) trials of the ship will run concurrently with the sea trials.

At present, the Vikramaditya's main power generators are being tested and the sleeping and living quarters are being finished. Crew training was completed in late March, Sevmash said.

Sea trials were earlier scheduled to start in November 2011 and be wrapped by December 2012.

However, in September 2011, Sevmash announced that Sea Trials had been pushed back to May 25, 2012.

Sevmash had earlier said the crew will need to start living on board the ship 90 days prior to the commencement of the sea trials.

However, in its new statement Sevmash admits that the 2,350 crew quarters are still not finished! It's not clear if a decision has been taken to sail without giving the crew 90 days familiarization, or some of the crew is already on board while the remaining crew quarters are completed.

On completion of the trials in November 2012, the ship will return to Sevmash and be dry-docked in floating dock PD-50 for maintenance inspection.

In addition to $2.2 billion for refurbishment of the ship, the Russians had asked for $600 million to conduct one year sea trials in the Barents Sea. India is reported to have reduced the cost by holding part of the trials in Indian waters, which maybe the reason why Defense Minister AK Antony said on April 4 during the commissioning of INS Chakra that the Vikramaditya will be commissioned into the Indian Navy early in 2013.

 

[Adux]

I got an IDEA, That Island is really as big as an ship, such an waste of space.

Cant we open up the flight deck floor of the island to park more fighters there??

We can surely park 10 more fighters in the ground floor(flight deck) if it is opened up instead of being sealed that way.

Like Car Parking Structure, Good Idea, but I am sure there is some reason it is not done, pillar strength? Other important structures? Engine Outlets?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Like Car Parking Structure, Good Idea, but I am sure there is some reason it is not done, pillar strength? Other important structures? Engine Outlets?

Those are valid reasons but no one would cut across a pillar, only remove the outter clading to allow jets inside, If not gut the whole ground floor we could have two openings for entry and exit?

The exaust seems to be on the outer side not on the same side, either way it is a terrible design. Wonder what is there in that huge island.

One more idea would be that we could use the landing for take off if we had a hydraulic sky jump which can be raised when required. That way we could launch 2 aircrafts at the same time.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

This is the Kuzentovs island, would this be of the same size or is the Vikramadityas island larger? Anyone?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kuzentovs class CV are different from Kiev class CV, Kiev class were aircraft battle cruisers which is modified for dedicated CV, Kiev class are smaller..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Kuzentovs class CV are different from Kiev class CV, Kiev class were aircraft battle cruisers which is modified for dedicated CV, Kiev class are smaller..

I am talking of the island or the control tower alone, do you think the kevis control tower is larger or smaller?