INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

[chandrahass]

Relatively the Nimitz class would need to carry a lot more ammunition for 16 planes than what the INS Vikramaditya would require for its 16 planes, Nimitz is a strike carrier, and the Vikramaditya will be a air defense carrier.

The only picture which shows the schematics of the hanger space on the INS VK is
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Images/Gorshkov4.jpg

Other than that i have never come across any schematics showing how the space was utilized on the Gorshkov.

well pal i guess it is my fault that i put it wrong i am not comparing nimitz and Vikramadtya there is no comparison at all . In terms of size, payload and role .

IMHO As u said that primary role of INS vikrmaditya would be air defense . their is no point that it does not carry it's Main tool without full payload ..

 

[kuku]

I just want to know how much time will it take for the Launch of aircrafts...the time in between. Because a lot of air vortexes are formed if a flight takes off. How much time will it take between take offs.

have seen harrier vids documenting 45-60 second gaps.
will dig them up and post.

well pal i guess it is my fault that i put it wrong i am not comparing nimitz and Vikramadtya there is no comparison at all . In terms of size, payload and role .

IMHO As u said that primary role of INS vikrmaditya would be air defense . their is no point that it does not carry it's Main tool without full payload ..

Even if the Vik was to go heavy on the fixed wing fighters with a air defence and secondary strike role i doubt it will be short of ammunition, fuel may be, but then refueling and resupplying such ships at sea is not new to the indian navy.

 

[Yusuf]

I dont know why would you call the Vikramaditya an air defense ship. What is it defending in the sea? Its obvious that it will use its complement of MiG 29s in a strike role. The MiG 29s are not interceptors that it will be used for defense. That role will be taken care by the naval LCA.

 

[SATISH]

Well I think it is for fleet defence as the fixed wing component is too small. It might be more effective in the fleet defence roles.

 

[kuku]

I dont know why would you call the Vikramaditya an air defense ship. What is it defending in the sea? Its obvious that it will use its complement of MiG 29s in a strike role. The MiG 29s are not interceptors that it will be used for defense. That role will be taken care by the naval LCA.

The fleet in the sea.
A secondary land strike role will be there, however with a ski jump takeoff its strike ability would be limited.

 

[Yusuf]

A squad of fighters is good enough for strike. Fleet defense is i feel a secondary role. There wont be a fleet or carrier group to defend if there was no aircraft carrier. Besides the fleet has its own defensive measures.

Aircraft Carriers operated by India after the addition of the two indigenous carriers will be used for power projection. That means offensive strike role that strikes fear in the heart of the enemy.

 

[SATISH]

Well Yusuf sir....The CBG is a whole unit...the carriers provide air defence while the destroyers and the subs are the Missile deterrent and self defence is provided by frigates and corvettes...We still dont know how the Vikramaditya or Vikrant are going to function.

 

[kuku]

A squad of fighters is good enough for strike. Fleet defense is i feel a secondary role. There wont be a fleet or carrier group to defend if there was no aircraft carrier. Besides the fleet has its own defensive measures.

Aircraft Carriers operated by India after the addition of the two indigenous carriers will be used for power projection. That means offensive strike role that strikes fear in the heart of the enemy.

For a strike fighter unit/strike carrier role one would need to generate a good enough sortie rate to be worthy of given a primary strike role.
Sortie rate= 24 hours / (Flight Time +Turnaround Time + Maintenance Time)

considering 2 hours flight time and a 2 hour check, rest, rearm, refuel plus a highly optimistic 5 hour maintenance time we have

=24/9=2.67 sorties per day= 16*2.67
that is roughly 42 sorties per day per carrier

That is no power projection or primary strike role especially if the fuel and weapon carrying capacity is limited due to a ski jump.

We will need the fleet to respond to strike aircrafts, or missile-armed LRMP which threaten the fleet with long ranged anti ship weapons (in case we are establishing a naval blockade), and strike at any enemy surface vessels that are planning to get near the fleet.

 

[nitesh]

more negotiations:

Def Secy to visit Russia to break deadlock over Gorshkov price

New Delhi, May 01: India is sending its Defence Secretary Vijay Singh to Russia on Sunday to break a deadlock over Moscow's hiked price of USD 2.9 billion for the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier.

During the three-day visit, Singh is likely to meet his counterpart in Moscow, apart from negotiating with officials from the Sevmash Shipyard, where the aircraft carrier is currently undergoing refit and repair, sources said here today.

The deal was initially signed for a price of USD 974 million in January 2004. Thereafter Russia hiked it to USD 2.1 billion in 2007 and further increased it to USD 2.9 billion in February this year.

The negotiations came a cropper this February, hitting India's efforts to induct the warship into its fleet by 2012.

The Russian decision to seek USD 700 million had been conveyed to India on February 10 during a bilateral meeting to re-negotiate the Russian demand for additional payment for the 44,500-tonne warship.

The Sevmash Shipyard was also stressing on an immediate release of USD 190 million for continuing the repair work, which had slowed down due to the fresh price negotiations.

Russia had informed that a final total price of $ 2.9 billion would be agreeable to it, but India, which has already paid $ 500 million for Admiral Gorshkov, had balked over such a high demand that could push the cost of the warship to three times its contracted price.

The warship, rechristened by India as INS Vikramaditya, was originally planned for delivery this year, but the demand for more payments by Russia had led to the delivery schedule being pushed to 2012.

India had till December last held that it needed time to consider the issue. However, the Cabinet Committee on Security that month gave its approval to renegotiate the deal.

It was agreed by both sides, during the then state visit of Russian President Dmitrey Medvedev, that the revised price should be finalised by March 2009.

The Russians had first made the demand for additional payment of USD 1.2 billion for the warship in November 2007, pushing the cost of the aircraft carrier to USD 2.1 billion.

The revised offer of USD 2.9 billion did come as a surprise for India, which was expecting Moscow to agree on a middle-ground on its earlier proposal for USD 2.1 billion.

The Navy was hoping that the first sea trails of the Gorshkov would be carried out in early 2010, but if the negotiations are further delayed, then the sea trials schedule could be pushed back further.

 

[Yusuf]

I don't understand why India does not issue a threat that the precondition to the MiG 35s participation in the MRCA tender is the completion of this damned carrier!

 

[Yusuf]

Our own carriers are go ing along. We don't see potential threat as of now and we are making do with the sole carrier we have. Take our money back and redouble our efforts to build our own carriers. The rate at which the Russians are going their is a fair chance that our carrier will hit the waters before Vikramaditya

 

[chandrahass]

Some Pics Dated 21 april 2009 -:

 

[SATISH]

Can anyone tell me which are all the dry docks that are capable of building a aircraft carrier?

 

[chandrahass]

Can anyone tell me which are all the dry docks that are capable of building a aircraft carrier?

In which country are you asking of course in india it it only mazadon

 

[nitesh]

UPA-2 set to clear ?new? Gorshkov deal by July-end - India - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: The first big defence procurement decision the new UPA government will take is likely to be the whopping cost escalation in the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov deal.

India and Russia have now cranked up negotiations to settle the bitter wrangling over the ongoing refit of Gorshkov — rechristened INS Vikramaditya after India paid an initial $500 million — at Sevmash shipyard in north Russia.

Sources say three top Indian defence teams will visit Russia in quick succession, within 30 days, to ensure the ‘‘new’’ Gorshkov deal is sent to the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval by end-July. Russia wants as much as $2 billion more to deliver the 44,570 tonne Gorshkov by end-2012, over and above the original $1.5 billion package deal signed in January 2004, as was first reported by TOI in July 2008.

Gorshkov’s refit was pegged at $974 million in the original $1.5 billion deal, with the rest for 16 MiG-29K fighters to operate from the carrier and other things. But Russia stunned India by first asking for $1.2 billion more for the warship’s refit in 2007, and then further hiked it to $ 2 billion last year. India, of course, has been banking upon Gorshkov for its long-standing aim to have two operational ‘carrier battle-groups’ by 2015 or so.

‘‘So, while Russia is asking for $2.9 billion for the refit alone, India is negotiating around the $2.2-billion mark. The final figure is in sight now,’’ said a source.

The first team, headed by Navy’s assistant controller of warship production and acquisition, in fact, will be leaving for Russia on Monday itself for ‘‘a detailed item-by-item costing’’ of the refit.

Then, a high-powered delegation led by defence secretary Vijay Singh will leave for Russia on June 1. Though ‘‘the entire range of issues’’ in the expansive Indo-Russia military relationship will be reviewed, Gorshkov’s refit will figure high in the talks. Finally, a team led by Navy’s controller of warship production and acquisition, Vice Admiral Ganesh Mahadevan, in mid-June will ‘‘negotiate the scope’’ of Gorshkov’s year-long sea trials in Barents Sea in 2011.

This is important since the finance ministry has objected to the $600-million figure listed by Russia for the trials in its overall $2.9 billion demand. ‘‘It will be decided what trials are essential in Russia and what can be done in India. Navy pilots will, for instance, have to practice take-offs and landings from Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov,’’ said the source.

India, on its part, has told Russia it wants ‘‘a final fixed sum and delivery schedule’’ at the end of the three visits. ‘‘With 2,000 workers engaged in its refit, Gorshkov is doing quite well at Sevmash at present. Its harbour trials should begin by end-2010,’’ he said.

 

[jayadev]

India agrees to allocate extra funds for 'Gorshkov' refitting

Moscow, Jun 1 (PTI) India and Russia have finalised a new price for the aircraft carrier 'Admiral Gorshkov' after months of protracted negotiations and the refitted warship would be delivered to the Indian Navy by 2012, top Russian officials said today.

"New Delhi has agreed to allocate extra funds for the carrier which would be delivered to the Indian Navy in 2012, four years behind schedule," they said.

Though the officials did not spell out the new price for the carrier, they said India has agreed to release extra funds for the upgradation works on the Kiev class carrier after an assessment by a naval team led by Rear Admiral P K Nair and a group of Russian experts of contractors and vendors.

The new deal could be tied up later this week after Indian Defence Secretary Vijay Singh's negotiations with his Russian counterpart. Singh has been sent to Moscow by the Defence Minister A K Antony, reflecting the new government's resolve to speed up all defence purchases.

Any fresh deal worked out would have to have the concurrence of the Cabinet Committee of Security (CCS).

"The negotiations were successful," Sevmash CEO Nikolai Kalistratov was quoted as saying by ITAR-TASS, without giving details of the exact figures involved. PTI
India agrees to allocate extra funds for 'Gorshkov' refitting

 

[nitesh]

Why the price is not getting disclosed? Is there is some "hidden understanding" here?

 

[K Factor]

Whats going on?

India pays $102m more to Russia for Gorshkov warship
4 Jun 2009, 2050 hrs IST, PTI


NEW DELHI: India has paid an additional $102 million to Russia to speed up Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier refit project, even as officials from both sides are working overtime to break the deadlock over Moscow's fresh demand for $2.9 billion for the warship.

With the release of additional funds last week, India has now paid a total of USD 602 million for Admiral Gorshkov, purchased in 2004 for USD 964 million and currently undergoing repair and refit at Sevmash shipyard in north Russia, a Defence Ministry official said here on Thursday.

Only last week a team of Defence Ministry officials had visited Moscow to discuss the scope of trials of the aircraft carrier.

This week, a team led by Defence Secretary Vijay Singh visited Moscow for the high-level monitoring committee meeting, where Russia's additional demand for USD 2.9 billion was discussed.

"It has been decided that by July we will come up with a firm cost (for Gorshkov) on the basis of which fresh inter-governmental agreement and a time schedule for delivery before December 2012 can be worked out, so it does not roll over to the next year. The final cost can be somewhere closer to USD 2.2 billion than USD 2.9 billion," the official said.

After India bought Admiral Gorshkov, it was sent for a refit at Sevmash, which was originally a submarine building yard. Since 2007, Russia has been making additional demand for the repair and refit project, citing cost over-runs due to increasing work on the warship, the Defence Ministry officials said.

Their first demand for hiking the cost came in 2007, when Russia sought an additional USD 1.2 billion for the aircraft carrier and to rework the original 2004 contract.

India agreed to renegotiate the deal only in December last, after holding for long that there was no room for a fresh contract for the warship. But the Russians quoted their final figure of USD 2.9 billion in February this year.

"Another Defence Ministry team will be leaving for Moscow in the middle of June to work out the final details of the renegotiation," the official added.

Regarding the air element of the Gorshkov deal, the official said India had already purchased 16 MiG-29K fighters from Russia for around USD 550 million and there was an option available to buy 29 more of these aircraft and another six trainers, which is yet to be cleared by the Cabinet.

In fact, New Delhi is likely to order additional MiG-29K as it intends to also fly these fighters on its indigenous aircraft carrier, for which the keel-laying took place this February and which is scheduled to join the Navy in 2012, the official said.

"Already a batch of Navy fighter pilots have trained on MiG-29Ks and another batch of pilots would go in September this year to practice landings on Russian aircraft carrier Kuznetsov," the Defence Ministry official said.

But India was waiting to take a decision on the additional order for MiG-29Ks as it "did not want a situation when we have the aircraft, but not the warship on which it is to operate and the life of the aircraft is wasted.

"The question is whether we exercise this option of follow-on orders now or wait a bit, which will obviously lead to escalation in its cost," he added.

Asked about the Gorshkov repair work at Sevmash, the official said the shipyard had already engaged about 2,000 men from its workforce on the warship, which was just recently taken out of dry dock and was floating at present.

"The work on Gorshkov is at an entirely different stage now. Russians are now working towards meeting the delivery schedule of December 2012 for the warship," the official said.

India pays $102m more to Russia for Gorshkov warship - India - The Times of India

 

[p2prada]

Whats going on?



India pays $102m more to Russia for Gorshkov warship - India - The Times of India

I doubt the actual figures will be released.

 

[SATISH]

In which country are you asking of course in india it it only mazadon

In India mate. But isnt the Dock in Cochin used to build the IAC.