INS Vikramaditya (Adm Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

Vladimir79

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Has Russia ever done steam catapult tech?
Yes we have, there is actually a catapult launching system installed at the training base at Nikita in Crimea. Our first carrier was going to be a catapult launched system but plans were changed to the jump deck instead.
 

Known_Unknown

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Let's hope Medvedev gets his way, and the issues in the Russian defence equipment production are sorted out. There's a growing perception that Russian military equipment is of inferior quality due to very little or non-existent quality control. The Gorshkov debacle and the fire aboard the Nerpa submarine which India was supposed to lease from Russia might force Indian military planners to acquire arms from the west in larger quantities.

Of course, Russian hardware would still be preferred I think because it's cheaper, comes with no strings attached, and usually with full ToT. Western countries will never transfer their tech to India, as they want to maintain a supplier-client relationship, nothing more.
 

deltacamelately

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Yes we have, there is actually a catapult launching system installed at the training base at Nikita in Crimea. Our first carrier was going to be a catapult launched system but plans were changed to the jump deck instead.
Vladimir79,
Thank you for the info. I always wondered why couldn't Russia get her hands on steam catapult, when they already mastered most of what western nations could do? Seems they did it but thought otherwise due to some other reason.
 

venom

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India to pay around $2.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit to end wrangling

The protracted bitter wrangling over huge cost escalation in aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which caused a distinct chill in the
expansive Indo-Russian defence ties, is virtually over now.

After three Indian delegations visited Russia one after the other last month, the two sides came together in New Delhi on Tuesday-Wednesday for the `firm and final' price negotiations to break the festering deadlock.

"We are confident the total cost for Gorshkov's refit will be pegged somewhere around $2.2 billion,'' said a top Indian official.

India has already managed to `reduce' the $600 million figure being asked by Russia for the 44,570-tonne Gorshkov's year-long sea trials in the Barents Sea slated for 2011-2012.

While most of the trials will still be held in Russia, apart from training of Indian pilots for MiG-29K take-offs and landings from Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, some will now be conducted in Indian waters to cut costs.

Defence minister A K Antony, on his part, told Parliament on Wednesday that "acceptance trials'' for delivery of Gorshkov, rechristened INS Vikramaditya, to India are `expected to be completed' in December 2012.

India, of course, is banking upon Gorshkov for its long-standing aim to have two operational `carrier battle-groups' by 2015 or so, with the other carrier, a 40,000-tonne indigenous warship, being built at Cochin Shipyard.

Incidentally, during a recent visit to Sevmash Shipyard in north Russia where Gorshkov is berthed, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the delay in the carrier's upgradation was `the sole irritant' in Indo-Russian relations.

As first reported by TOI, the new contract for repair and re-equipping of Gorshkov -- for which India has already paid $602 million till now -- will be one of the first big defence procurements to be cleared by UPA-2 towards end-July or early-August.

That will finally bring closure to Gorshkov's controversy-ridden saga, which began in the mid-1990s with Russia offering the second-hand, partly-burnt carrier as "a free gift''. The condition was that India would pay for its refit as well as the MiG-29K fighters to operate from its deck.

The $1.5-billion contract was finally inked in January 2004, with the carrier refit costing $974 million and the rest for 16 MiG-29Ks. Under it, Gorshkov was to be delivered by August 2008.

But then came the shocker. Russia in mid-2007 demanded another $1.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit in addition to the initial $974 million, apart from pushing back its delivery to December 2012, holding that work on it had been "grossly under-estimated'' earlier.

Though after much heart-burn, India eventually agreed, more was to follow. Russia last year said it now wanted $2 billion more for refit, taking the total cost to around $2.9 billion. India, of course, wants the figure down to the $2.2-billion mark.
 

youngindian

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India to pay around $2.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit to end wrangling

9 Jul 2009, 0231 hrs IST, Rajat Pandit, TNN

NEW DELHI: The protracted bitter wrangling over huge cost escalation in aircraft

carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which caused a distinct chill in
the expansive Indo-Russian
defence ties, is virtually over now.

After three Indian delegations visited Russia one after the other last month, the two sides came together in New Delhi on Tuesday-Wednesday for the `firm and final' price negotiations to break the festering deadlock.

"We are confident the total cost for Gorshkov's refit will be pegged somewhere around $2.2 billion,'' said a top Indian official.

India has already managed to `reduce' the $600 million figure being asked by Russia for the 44,570-tonne Gorshkov's year-long sea trials in the Barents Sea slated for 2011-2012.

While most of the trials will still be held in Russia, apart from training of Indian pilots for MiG-29K take-offs and landings from Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, some will now be conducted in Indian waters to cut costs.

Defence minister A K Antony, on his part, told Parliament on Wednesday that "acceptance trials'' for delivery of Gorshkov, rechristened INS Vikramaditya, to India are `expected to be completed' in December 2012.

India, of course, is banking upon Gorshkov for its long-standing aim to have two operational `carrier battle-groups' by 2015 or so, with the other carrier, a 40,000-tonne indigenous warship, being built at Cochin Shipyard.

Incidentally, during a recent visit to Sevmash Shipyard in north Russia where Gorshkov is berthed, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the delay in the carrier's upgradation was `the sole irritant' in Indo-Russian relations.

As first reported by TOI, the new contract for repair and re-equipping of Gorshkov -- for which India has already paid $602 million till now -- will be one of the first big defence procurements to be cleared by UPA-2 towards end-July or early-August.

That will finally bring closure to Gorshkov's controversy-ridden saga, which began in the mid-1990s with Russia offering the second-hand, partly-burnt carrier as "a free gift''. The condition was that India would pay for its refit as well as the MiG-29K fighters to operate from its deck.

The $1.5-billion contract was finally inked in January 2004, with the carrier refit costing $974 million and the rest for 16 MiG-29Ks. Under it, Gorshkov was to be delivered by August 2008.

But then came the shocker. Russia in mid-2007 demanded another $1.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit in addition to the initial $974 million, apart from pushing back its delivery to December 2012, holding that work on it had been "grossly under-estimated'' earlier.

Though after much heart-burn, India eventually agreed, more was to follow. Russia last year said it now wanted $2 billion more for refit, taking the total cost to around $2.9 billion. India, of course, wants the figure down to the $2.2-billion mark.

India to pay around $2.2 billion for Gorshkov's refit to end wrangling - India - The Times of India
 

youngindian

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Russia's Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier to become expensive Mercedes for Indian na

09.07.2009

Dmitry Medvedev’s visit to Russia’s Arkhangelsk Region will help solve the problem with the unfortunate Admiral Gorshkov cruiser. The history of the ship began during the times of the Soviet Union. The aircraft carrier was rusting in the White Sea for a long time after the break-up of the USSR. Now Russian ship-builders seem to be unable to remake the cruiser for the Indian Navy.Russia’s major shipyard, Sevmash Enterprise, has been working on the ship for several years, to remake it into a mini cruiser for the Indian navy. The execution of the Indian order was pushed back from 2008 to 2012 due to the inaccurate evaluation of the production cost. Originally, the contract was evaluated at $620 million. Afterwards, India was supposed to pay $1.5 billion taking account of an additional delivery of 16 deck-based MiG-29K jets. Nowadays, the cost of the project makes up $2.5 billion.

The cruiser was delivered to Sevmash Enterprise in the city of Severodvinsk at the end of the 1990s. The command of Russia’s Pacific Navy sold two similar vessels to China and Korea in 1994 for a very low price. The Chinese quickly made an entertainment complex from the Russian mini cruiser – the vessel still brings very good money in China.

India evinced interest in the Admiral Gorshkov in the year 2000. It was agreed in 2003 that Russia would give away the cruiser to India for free, whereas India in its turns would place an order with Russia to remake the cruise into an aircraft-carrier.

It later became known that the cost of the contract was considerably underestimated – that was probably the reason why India signed it so quickly.

President Medvedev strictly ordered to complete the project for India on time. Nikolai Kalistratov, the director of Sevmash Enterprise, explained it to the president that India originally “ordered a cheap car and wanted Russia to make a Mercedes out of it.”

Medvedev’s visit showed that the Admiral Gorshkov will never stay in Russia and that it will have to become “an expensive Mercedes” for India.


Russia's Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier to become expensive Mercedes for Indian navy - Pravda.Ru
 

venom

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For the time being lets forget the amt we are paying for it.......y cant you just discuss its Advantages , effects & capabilities ...just imagine INS Gorshkov packed with 30 Mig-29K's,Lca's[After some years] Sea King , Ka-31 [Early warning], Ka-28 [Anti-sub],Dhruv,Barak-NG,Barak-1 & The Mig-29's will be carrying R-77M's not Derby as the Primary BVR weapon as well as astra.It will be a big boost to our naval capabilities.
 

youngindian

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India, Russia in final lap of talks on carrier price hike

New Delhi, July 13 (IANS) A 30-member Russian team is in India to resolve tangle over cost escalation and fix the final price for the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which India has sought to buy, an official said.

India recently injected urgency in the timely execution of the contract and set July-end as the deadline to resolve the deadlock over the cost escalation. The team hopes to do this, after which a fresh contract will be signed.

“A 30-member team is in Delhi for some time. They are here for the final negotiations on the price hike,” a senior defence official told IANS.

In May-end, India had released $102 million to Russia for the 45,000-tonne Kiev class aircraft carrier.

The deal for Gorshkov was signed in 2004 for approximately $948 million. However, the project hit the headlines in 2007 as the delivery date was pushed back and the Russians increased the price.

With the latest installment, India has paid nearly $602 million of the originally contracted $1.5 billion for the refurbishment of the Gorshkov, which has been mothballed since 1988. According to the official, Gorshkov, currently undergoing a refit at the Sevmash shipyard in Russia, has been moved from its dry dock and will be towed into the sea by the year end.

According to the senior officials involved in the negotiations with Russia, the new quoted price of the aircraft carrier fluctuates between $2.2 billion and $2.9 billion and Moscow may come around to the lower price to accomodate New Delhi.

The two sides have been carrying on price negotiations for over a year. India has not willing to pay what it considers an unreasonable escalation that has nearly doubled the cost of the aircraft carrier.

The dramatic cost escalation has threatened to cast a shadow on the long-standing defence ties between India and Russia.

Meanwhile, the basic training for the first batch of the Indian Navy pilots on the MiG-29 combats that will be operated from the Gorshkov has been completed.

India, Russia in final lap of talks on carrier price hike | Sindh Today - Online News
 

I-G

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Final accord on Gorshkov pricing by July-end: Russia


Updated on Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 17:46 IST

New Delhi: India and Russia will reach a final agreement on the cost of overhauling the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier by the end of this month, the Russia envoy said here on Wednesday.

"Both sides are coming to terms on the price and the date for commissioning for the Indian Navy. It will be announced within a fortnight. I do not want to speculate on the costs... it could be more than $2 billion," said Russian Ambassador Vyacheslav Trubnikov, who shortly leaves Delhi after a five-year stint.

The current contract covers a complete overhaul of the ship and equipping it with modern weaponry, including MiG-29K Fulcrum aircraft and anti-submarine helicopters.

A joint Indian-Russian working group is negotiating and preparing a revised agreement on the Admiral Gorshkov (to be renamed INS Vikramaditya), which is to replace India's ageing INS Viraat carrier.

"What is important here is that both sides have expressed goodwill. India needs this aircraft carrier," said Trubnikov.

The aircraft carrier is currently docked at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia, with over 2,000 workers carrying out repairs.

Trubnikov, who has been credited for building closer ties between New Delhi and Moscow, bemoaned the fact that trade ties were not commensurate with the potential.

"It (trade) leaves much to be desired. Trade still remains a challenge... Though it is positive, that is not enough," he said.

"Bilateral trade last year was around $7 billion. That is nothing considering the potential there is in this globalised world, where we can find many more outlets to make the partnership profitable."

According to Trubnikov, the energy sector, military technical cooperation and colloboration in space were the three pillars that formed the basis of the relationship between both countries.

"Military technical cooperation is highly competitive. We must learn to modernise techniques. Russia has changed its philosophy from being a buyer-seller partner to seeking mutual benefits in technology," he said.

"Both countries are moving forward for joint production of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft and a multi-role transport aircraft."

Explaining the increasing importance of India-Russia relations in a developing multi-polar world, Trubnikov referred to the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) grouping that he reckoned will play a significant role.

"It is going to play a more and more significant role in the construction of an architecture for the future both militarily and economically."

Final accord on Gorshkov price by July-end: Russian envoy
 
J

John

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For the time being lets forget the amt we are paying for it.......y cant you just discuss its Advantages , effects & capabilities ...just imagine INS Gorshkov packed with 30 Mig-29K's,Lca's[After some years] Sea King , Ka-31 [Early warning], Ka-28 [Anti-sub],Dhruv,Barak-NG,Barak-1 & The Mig-29's will be carrying R-77M's not Derby as the Primary BVR weapon as well as astra.It will be a big boost to our naval capabilities.
The carrier can't carry more than 16 mig-29k, N-LCA wont have space on it unless we reduce number of migs. It can carry a max of 20 aircraft and 4 helos.
 

Sridhar

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was wondering does the price for Gorshkov includes Mig-29K and helicopters?
The deal also includes the purchase of 12 single-seat Mikoyan MiG-29K 'Fulcrum-D' (Product 9.41) and 4 dual-seat MiG-29KUB aircraft (with an option for 14 more aircraft)$1bn, 6 Kamov Ka-31 "Helix" reconnaissance and anti-submarine helicopters, torpedo tubes, missile systems, and artillery units. Facilities and procedures for training pilots and technical staff, delivery of simulators, spare parts, and establishment maintenance on Indian Navy facilities are also part of the contract.

INS Vikramaditya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

1.44

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CAG slams Govt, Navy over Gorshkov deal

The protracted price negotiation for the Gorshkov aircraft carrier between India and Russia came in for sharp criticism on Friday from the CAG, whose latest report rapped the Defence Ministry for the cost escalation of Rs 7,207 crore (USD 1.82 billion) in four years.

Media reports claimed on Friday that the CAG in its report has come down heavily on the deal to buy Russia’s damaged aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov – now rechristened INS Vikramaditya - as the Navy would be paying more than it would have for a new ship. The cost of acquisition has almost doubled to Rs 7207.

The CAG report further points out that the Navy would be acquiring an old ship with limited life span that would be ready only by 2012-2013.

The report also points out those certain key components like the anti-missile system are also past their best and their refit would be taken up only between 2013 and 2017 – thereby making the ship vulnerable to missile attacks.

Admiral Gorshkov, a Soviet-era aircraft carrier that was bought by India, is anchored at the Sevmash factory in the northern city of Arkhangelsk for refit with over 2,000 workers employed on the project.

The Comptroller and Auditor General report for 2008, released here, also questioned the prudence of the Ministry in buying the second-hand Russian warship, which now comes at "half its life-span and about "60 per cent more expensive" than a new aircraft carrier.

As a result, the Indian Navy's objective of inducting a second-hand foreign aircraft carrier -- Gorshkov deal was signed in January 2004 -- was not met in time to fill the gap in its capabilities, the CAG report said.

"The government is now likely to pay USD 1.82 billion for the modified Kiev class heavy cruiser as against the original contract amount of USD 875 million," it said.

The report proposed a comprehensive review of the project, due to the criticality of the asset coupled with drastic increase in scope of repairs with consequential cost increase.

The audit report also recorded its unhappiness over the Ministry not providing "full co-operation and access" on the Navy's new acquisition.

Noting that the delivery acceptance trials of the carrier would not be completed before 2012, the CAG said the delivery of the ship, originally acquired with the objective of filling the five-year carrier gap during 2007-2012, still involved high risk.

The CAG report said the most substantial increase in Gorshkov's cost of USD 522.57 million was on account of sea trials, which were originally contracted for USD 27 million.

"This has increased by almost 20 times to USD 550 million, creating doubts about the diligence exercised while estimating and negotiating costs," it said.

The auditors also noted with concern that the carrier would not have a Close-In Weapon System (CIWS), a vital ship-board point weapon for detecting and destroying incoming anti-ship missiles and enemy aircraft at short range, until her first refit in India in 2017.

Given the expected force level of Indian Navy by the time the aircraft carrier is inducted, it is not clear as to how the Navy would provide adequate complement battle group to the carrier," it added.

Stating that the monitoring and supervision of the project was "surprisingly lax" with no committee adhering to the frequency prescribed, the report said as a result, the enormity of the situation could not be foreseen till the vendor (Russian Sevmash shipyard) presented the revised costs (in 2007).

Financial control by the Indian side was diluted as payment terms were not linked to physical outputs, the report said, adding that thus, though 66 per cent of the contracted cost of repair and refit was paid, only 35 per cent of the work was completed.

After almost two years of negotiations, India is likely to pay between USD 2.2 billion (Rs 10,100 crore) and USD 2.9 billion (Rs 14,900 crore) for Gorshkov.

http://www.zeenews.com/news549874.html

 

1.44

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Sub-standard systems which will need refit in 4-85 years,high price etc. effectively ruined the euphoria of buying a new carrier.
 

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