India's Future Main Battle Tank, NGMBT

[gogbot]

As of 25 Aug, 2010 04:35:11 PM, IA is the proud owner of only 85 Arjun Tanks after 26 years of development and trials.

ROFL. That should answer all your questions.

Unfortunately , that fact has forced me to ask a great deal many questions.
DRDO , MOD and the Indian army have a lot to answer for.

DRDO and MOD for all the usual suspects , delays , lack of planning and cost-overruns.

But Remember it was the Army that had changed the GSQR 3 times over the course of development.

It prompted at least 3 known re-designs.

http://frontierindia.net/history-of-arjun-tank-development

#1

The first General Staff Qualitative Requirement (GSQR) was issued in August 1972 as QR No. 326 for the design and development of MBT. The QR 326 was not exhaustive and with regard to specifications but featured only skeleton specifications.

The design and development of MBT based on GSQR No. 326 was taken up by the Combat Vehicle Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE). The initial outlay of Rs. 15.50 Crore was sanctioned vide the Government of India (GOI) letter dated 02 May, 1974. Project Development Certification (PDC) of the project was 10 years from the date of sanction.

#2

In April 1978, the Indian Army called DRDO for a meeting for mutual discussions. The aim was to change the GSQR No. 326. A series of meetings between DRDO and Indian Army, chaired by VCOAS resulted in change in GSQR. The new GSQR bearing the number 431 was issued in August 1982.

The changes in the GSQR No. 431 were

a)Increase in width and weight
b)110/115mm gun was to be replaced with a 120mm gun.
c)Improved Sighting and Fire Control system.

Essentially it meant creation of entirely new design and systems. A sum of Rs. 56.55 Crores was obtained mainly to cater to cater to GSQR changes and price escalation due to inflation/ rise in import costs.

#3

There had been significant enhancement in the battle tank technologies world wide and there was a possibility of these tanks being introduced in the Indian Sub Continent. This prompted Indian Army to change its GSQR and in November 1985, third GSQR No. 467 was issued. The changes in GSQR were:

a)More lethal gun of 120mm caliber.
b)Requirement of Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS)
c)Development of Semi Combustible Cartridge cases and high energy propellant.
d)Integrated Fire Control System based on sight stabilized system with periscopic gunner sight.
e)Thermal Imaging system for gunner's main sight for night fighting capabilities.
f)Provision of "Kanchan Armour" for enhanced immunity.

In addition following conditions were in the new GSQR:

"¢Manufacture of 23 Pre production Series (PPS) Tanks to enable full scale troop trials and after that smooth transfer technology (TOT) to a production agency.
"¢Setting of Armoured Fighting Vehicle (AFV) evaluation center and augmentation of infrastructure facilities.
"¢Realistic assessment of technical and user trial.
"¢Import of engines for prototypes and PPS.

The revised financial implication because of the new GSQR was Rs. 280.80 Crores which was issued in 1987. The GSQR escalated the cost of materials, stores and the import cost spiraled due to weakening Rupee.

That would put the design of the tank as of 1987.
Around the same time the LCA was first designed.

ROFL at that why not.

its funny is it not, every time they try to make the tank they have to start over
more or less.

I am sure DRDO made its own mistakes , but no one gave them a simple job to begin with but nor was it made any easier on them with the changing requirements.

I am just happy that the Arjun actually got to arrive.

If we did not get the T-90 in 2000 , i would like to ask the question would the GSQR have changed again as well.

LCA and Arjun have faced similar problems. Both forces have rejected Mk1. Both forces have asked for a MK2. Both forces have not committed to the project completely. Both forces have mooted for a new gen platform MCA and FMBT.

Except there are two difference , the Air force has fighters far superior to the LCA-Mk1.
And is Importing fighters with the same requirements as the LCA-MK2.

Why does the IAF get of crtiq free, they are inducting a horde of planes superior the LCA and the LCA MKII , And are already working towards comparable aircraft like the AMCA , in the FGFA. When they say the LCA is not ready we need only take a look at their fleet to find an answer.

How does the T-90 or the T-72 stack against the Arjun.
Not only is the superiority of the current fleet in question ,
But so are the tanks we will be inducting , over the next 10 years 1000 t-90 will be produced. and a greater number of T-72's upgraded.

Do any of them even meet the GSRQ requirements of the Arjun or even Surpass them.

And the other Difference the Army rejected the MkI capped it and wanted to shelve the entire project, the Air force asked for the MK-II.

In conclusion the end result of IAF decision may slow indigenous efforts,
But going for the MMRCA not only strengthened but only increased IAF's capabilities.The same capabilities they want in the MKII.

Contrast this with the Army's decision to cap the orders and look for a new tank
That would be inducted many years from now. While we just sit on the Arjun with no Upgrades or development requested.
If the Arjun performed poorly at the trials no questions would have been asked and we would have moved onto the new tank.

But that's not what happened , Why was Arjun almost scarped despite it performing at comparable standards to the current inventory of tanks.

In 2008, the Indian Army announced plans to acquire an entirely new main battle tank unrelated to the Arjun, to be inducted after 2020.The Indian Army has held an "international seminar on future MBTs", during which the parameters and requirements of this future MBT were identified. As a result, Russia has offered to team with India on developing this future tank. According to Jane's, the Indian Army had confirmed that the Arjun's production will be capped at 124 units.

The IAF decision though is not the end of the road for the Rs. 6,000-crore LCA programme. It will consider acquiring 125 more Tejas when an improved — Mark 2 (Mk2) — variant is developed. As indicated by an IAF committee in 2004, any further order will be subject to the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the designer and developer of the LCA programme, showing "firm visibility that the aircraft will meet the ASR."

Recently, the IAF even made a few suggestions on improvements in Tejas Mk2, including a more powerful engine, optimisation of the aerodynamic qualities and weight of the aircraft and "dropping and replacing" certain parts to take care of obsolescence.

Compare and examine the two decisions.

Never questioned the success of the trials. Questioned only the time line. Why claim for great taste when its past the expiry date.

IF Arjun is past its expiry date what does that make the T-90 and T-72.

Straight from the horses mouth a

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/AdvSearch.aspx

Development of Arjun Tank(7/28/2005)


Lok Sabha

Some of the salient capabilities of Arjun tank are superior armour defeating capability, day and night operation, remarkable mobility, excellent ride comfort, high degree of immunity and fire 'on the move' capability.

The Arjun tank is superior to T-90 tank due to its high power to weight ratio, superior fire on the move capability during day and night and excellent ride comfort. MBT Arjun has gone through all the tests and it is meeting the General Staff Qualitative Requirement of the Army.

The first batch of five Arjun tanks, out of production lot will be going, for comparative trials with T-90 tanks. During preparatory tests before comparative trials certain systems have not met the acceptance criteria. These units are being rectified. Ruggedisation has been introduced to withstand peak abnormal temperature.

This information was given by the Defence Minister Shri Pranab Mukherjee in a written reply to Shri Ajoy Chakraborty and Shri Naveen Jindal in Lok Sabha today.
Release Id :10623

And you really think the army will actually use it for major combat operations. It is a token gesture. Arjun will be relegated to duties within our borders.

Why ?
Why the token gestures , why not use the tank for its full capability.
Even in a few numbers.

At the very least its better than the T-72.
Even if they have it in few numbers why must it be treated like it is the most ineffective tank in the force.

Answer me that one question, why can't Arjun at least replace the T-72 or even older tanks that we keep in reserve.

Despite meeting the GSRQ , despite the Trials with the T-90.
Why does the Army choose to use Antiquated older models over the Arjun still.

968 T72M1 have been upgraded by the Heavy vehicles factory (HVF), While requests for proposal for upgrading approximately 1000 other T-72's have been sent to various firms in Israel, Russia, Poland and France.

Up to 200 additional T-55s are kept in storage. T-55s were to be phased out in favour of T-90. Some T-55s may be converted into Tarmour AFV's

Most could use replacement, Why can't the Arjun find a place in the Army if all those tanks are still in service.

How is it you can tell me happily that the order of the Arjuns is just a token gesture. When we might actually need the Arjun to replace some of the odler models.

The FMBT is years away , and the Army is not looking at any foreign tank in the intern.

In the mean time we have the Arjun , if in fact its performance at the trials is not of debate.
It would be logical to assume that the Arjun is in fact reliable and comparable to that of the T-90.

Yet why do continue to operate older tanks in this 2010+ battlefield. Citing an expiry that does not seem to apply to the current stock and inventory.
Inducting a tank of comparable capabilities.A tank that has remained static over the last 10 years and will be static for the next 10.

All the while we have a dynamic tank , moving towards MKII. Who's eventual technologies will evolve into the FMBT ,

the FMBT is the

real deal

If as you say.

You must also accept that fact that as it is being developed over the course of the next 10 to 15 years the corresponding technologies can be dynamically added to the Arjun series over that same period of time. If anything that process would result in a far superior tank.

All criticisms have been relegated to board rooms and meetings. Nothing more is being releases to mainstream media. IA has taken its cue from the IAF.
Praise it to an extent that the public is happy and still not induct it.

And what would those Criticisms be ?
Does it not meet the requirements.
Can it not perform on par with the T-90.

where they hell are the criticisms regarding the T-90 or the t-72.

It is a test bed for modern technologies like the APS and certifying technologies like engine, transmission, electronics and tracks.

You don't need a 124 tanks as a test bed.

Arjun is well past its expiry date for development time. Normally any other armed forces would have asked to cancel the project and start afresh a new tank development in early 2000 itself. DRDO did not relent and the army went ahead with T-90.

That's a useless argument when we still have tanks like the T-72 sitting around.
If Arjun is past expiry what does that make the T-72.

And it not as if the T-90 is a ultra modern tank.
Its old by the same standards.
And is also inferior to the Arjun in certain regards.

If you want to tell me the Arjun is old and expired , we should scarp the t-90 and t-72 as well.

Don't compare with the Israeli Merkava because it is like comparing Apples and the Milky Way. The Merkava was indeed ahead of its time and had a lot of promise which came from technology that was 35 years ahead of what today's Arjun is.

Since you bought it up.
Just because we did not make something as good.
Does not change their underlying concept wrong.
They went for incremental upgrades and improvement.

The results are clear for all to see.
Tell me one reason why incremental improvement would not have worked for the Arjun.
Arjun could have well of evolved into the FMBT.
Rather they are now forced to make a leap and try to produce the FMBT.

The Arjun was designed to the the Army's GSQR , ask the army why it did not ask for something different . Or if the Merkava is so ahead of its time why isn't the Army Inducting it for the 2010+ battlefield. Let me guess weight issues.

I would prefer almost anything over the t-72 frankly.

If the year was 1980 I would have whole heartedly supported Arjun. Heck even 2000 was fine. But not 2010+. The battlefield has become way too advanced for a super sized Brontosaurus.

As i said earlier the current GSQR that the Arjun is based of is from 1987 when the Army issues.
This makes the Arjun a 90's design tank. This was what the Army asked for.

Now it is 2010 , and you are right we can make a better tank now or we can even import one. But FMBT is at least 12 years away(optimisic) and no tanks is bieng imported to meet the 2010+ battlefield.

What we have is the T-72
The T-90 a tank no different than the Arjun as far as capabilities are concerned.
Some would make the Argument that the Arjun could do better.

So in this 2010+ battlefield.
We have the T-72 a tank that's hardly fit for service at if your point is to be accurate.
The T-90 no better equipped than the Arjun. But we are inducting 1000 of over the next 10 years.

All this while we are sitting on top of the Arjun. Either unable or unwilling to take advantage of it.

In the Mean while, T-72 and Arjun , Why is T-72 in service despite the fact that Arjun is comparable to T-90.

Whatever you may tell me, the super sized Brontosaurus mkII will be the closest thing we will have to a 2010+ tank till the FMBT rolls out some 10-15 years.

I Await you reply p2prada

 

[p2prada]

It is clear from your post that you haven't gone back and read my earlier debate with Kunal and ppgj.

I do not intend on repeating the story again.

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=208

Go through the posts and you will find most of your answers. I will answer some of your points though.

November 1985, third GSQR No. 467 was issued.

After 25 years, Arjun is still undergoing tests.

And is Importing fighters with the same requirements as the LCA-MK2.

No.

How does the T-90 or the T-72 stack against the Arjun.

Do any of them even meet the GSRQ requirements of the Arjun or even Surpass them.

The T-90s give superior fire power, superior armour and a considerably lower profile as compared to Arjun.

And the other Difference the Army rejected the MkI capped it and wanted to shelve the entire project, the Air force asked for the MK-II.

Army has replacement choices and the option of T-90 has already been exercised. The Air force does not have a choice. The LCA Mk2 will form the lower rung of the air fleet. It is is no way comparable to any MMRCA aircraft except Gripen NG. Also, tank development is peanuts compared to a fighter program.

From PIB,

The Arjun tank is superior to T-90 tank due to its high power to weight ratio, superior fire on the move capability during day and night and excellent ride comfort.

The Arjun is superior in firing on the move with crew comfort because of modern suspension. But T-90 surpasses Arjun in fire power and armour.

why can't Arjun at least replace the T-72 or even older tanks that we keep in reserve.

It would mean making new changes in the doctrine because of a new type of tank. Also, it will be unnecessarily expensive. If we can push the T-72 for another 20 years, it will give us time to induct and operationalize the FMBT.

Why does the Army choose to use Antiquated older models over the Arjun still.

Reliability of T types and technological obsolescence of the Arjun.

You must also accept that fact that as it is being developed over the course of the next 10 to 15 years the corresponding technologies can be dynamically added to the Arjun series over that same period of time. If anything that process would result in a far superior tank.

Arjun, Abrams, Leo, Challenger 2, etc cannot survive a modern battlefield. A single Reaper drone can take out 14 tanks in a matter of minutes. You cannot survive with just a lot of armour. I had consistently repeated this earlier and reading the T-90 thread will give more answers to all your current questions. Hit avoidance is the new tactic. Hit survival is passe.

You don't need a 124 tanks as a test bed.

That's only 3 regiments.

They went for incremental upgrades and improvement.

The Merkava was good enough for step by step process because of the technology of the time. Arjun isn't. The battlefield is too dynamic for Arjun to survive.

The Arjun was designed to the the Army's GSQR , ask the army why it did not ask for something different .

The Army wanted to cancel the project well before 2000 and they had already started looking at the T-90. It was DRDO that did not stop the project. So, its not the army's fault. They had already rejected the Arjun after it consistently failed trials from 1997 to 2000.

The Army bought the T-90s in 2000 and it was only after 2003 that Arjun slowly started performing to expectations. Nevertheless, a tank development should take only 10 years with testing. Arjun is not completely ready even after 25 years and is still using critical foreign parts.

no tanks is bieng imported to meet the 2010+ battlefield.

Lucky for us our enemies aren't the US or NATO. So, our current battlefield scenario will be the same. It is post 2020 that is cause for concern.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Think p2prada is a real life technocrat who builds weapons, hence he is simply spilling beans on the inventions of INDIAN scientists.............

Think he does not know the history of INDIA..........

Mr.p2prada, the so called fighter jets were and are designed on the basis of the information the western countries decoded from the VIMANIKA SHASTRA written by the "GREAT SAGE BHARADWAJA"...........

This true to the fact and it is approved by the international community.............

In 1923 an INDIAN scientist named Subbaraya SAstry gave a detailed lecture about the "VIMANIKA SHASTRA" at france, for which the GREAT HITLER attended the conference and he was impressed by the lecture given by the INDIAN scientist and took the scientist with him and decoded the Shastra which is SANSKRIT into GERMAN.............

Even great scientists like ALBERT EINSTEIN also praised the VEDAS and VEDA SHASTRAS of INDIA and also accepted the potential of INDIANS...................

So, never underestimate the power of INDIANS.............

It is b'cos the well being of hummanity, the shastras are not eing used or implemented at a full scale experiment...............

B'cos the technology is so advanced that it could cause immediate extinction of the whole human race the knowledge is not shared with the outside world..........

This is true wether anyone in this forum or even in the world believe it or not..........

But it does not mean that b'cos the people who are well educated in the field of VEDAS and VEDA SHASTRAS do not implement the knowledge are cowards. They will make use of the knowledge only when the need for it arises...........

I know something about those shastras and i have experience in those scriptures also..........

You may tell or feel that I must be an idiot or a person from asylum to make such statements, but this the truth and truth does not require anyones acceptence to prove itself..........

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

INDIA is far more powerfull than any country in the whole world. But it does not use the VEDIC knowledge to destroy the human race............

Never underestimate the power of VEDAS AND VEDA SHASTRAS...........

 

[p2prada]

You may tell or feel that I must be an idiot or a person from asylum to make such statements, but this the truth and truth does not require anyones acceptence to prove itself..........

Never underestimate the power of VEDAS AND VEDA SHASTRAS...........

Wow. Just because people like Harry Potter, that does not make Magic true, does it?

Can some one delete the posts before the quality of the forum deteriorates?

 

[gogbot]

November 1985, third GSQR No. 467 was issued.

After 25 years, Arjun is still undergoing tests.

I think your being unfair , testing and validation stoped when the first Arjun tanks were inducted into the forces two years ago.
By which point the Army was wholly satisfied it had met the GSRQ requirements laid out for it.

No.

That tells me a lot ,
i would like for you to tell how i am mistaken.

The only difference is in the role of the MMRCA aircraft as opposed to the LCA.

Both aircraft still require similar types of capabilities such as AESA radar.
Although the level of said capability may change from aircraft to aircraft.

Army has replacement choices and the option of T-90 has already been exercised. The Air force does not have a choice. The LCA Mk2 will form the lower rung of the air fleet. It is is no way comparable to any MMRCA aircraft except Gripen NG. Also, tank development is peanuts compared to a fighter program.

It would mean making new changes in the doctrine because of a new type of tank. Also, it will be unnecessarily expensive. If we can push the T-72 for another 20 years, it will give us time to induct and operationalize the FMBT.

You listening to your self, Push the T-72 another 20 years.
You want that 37 year old tank to give us another 20.
Then you tell me Arjun is past expiry date.

What the hell do you think the 50 tonne FMBT is going to be based on , the T series or the Arjun. If anything inducting the more Arjun's will benefit the FMBT most.
Not only will it set the stage by propping up tank manufacturing and engineering , it will set up logistics more suited to fielding Indian tanks.
You want the FMBT to be developed and manufactured out of thin air. You have to lay down the foundation blocks for this stuff .

Widespread acceptance of the Arjun tank will have a positive impact through out the Defense sector , not only will it prop up private sector supplier like L&T , it will boost R&D expenditure to supply indigenous parts to these systems.

All IA has to do is find a place for some 500+ Arjun tanks , in a fleet filled with T-72. even if the Arjun is just the lower rug. Being fielded is in numbers is all that's needed to prep the industry for future developments. Having to support an actual system already in service is an important step. Meanwhile the Army gets the Benefit of Superior Dynamic tank as opposed to the antiquated static T-72.

By the way no one is fooling themselves i don't expect the LCA to fly circles around the Euro fighter. everyone starts somewhere and build up from a point. Ours is the tejas , even as a lower rug replacement to the Mig-21. Its induction and use is what will benefit the aerospace sector.
Eurofighter , rafale e.t.c were built with years of experience and R&D development and investment.
If you expect India to that from the start before you get interested or you think its worth the time of the armed forces.
Your the one living in wonderland

I would like to see where Companies like Dassult , LM , Boeing etc would be
If people kept their first generation of systems out of the forces citing similar reasons.

The Arjun is superior in firing on the move with crew comfort because of modern suspension. But T-90 surpasses Arjun in fire power and armour.

The T-90s give superior fire power, superior armour and a considerably lower profile as compared to Arjun.

Armour ?
by what measure

Reliability of T types and technological obsolescence of the Arjun.

reliability of t types ? , what the hell does that mean.
there is no way you can substantiate that , How can you talk about the reliability of t type's when the only type being used.
What the hell are you comparing with to make that statement.

Technological obsolescence , in fleet of tanks dominated by the T-72. If anything Arjun would improve the overall Technological level.

That's only 3 regiments.

That's the same number in a different format.
Tell me how many logistics routes , spares and number of soldiers are needed to run these So called "test beds" for there regiments.

You don't need to exhaust so much for test beds

The Merkava was good enough for step by step process because of the technology of the time. Arjun isn't. The battlefield is too dynamic for Arjun to survive.

That's the whole point , If Change is what is required than the tank will change. More or less depending on need.
But it will always be dynamic and subject only to the intent of its user.

Stop thinking of the Arjun as tank design ,but more of a weapons systems.

The Army wanted to cancel the project well before 2000 and they had already started looking at the T-90. It was DRDO that did not stop the project. So, its not the army's fault. They had already rejected the Arjun after it consistently failed trials from 1997 to 2000.

The Army order its first set of Arjun Tanks in 2000. Funny considering they wanted to cancel it before.
Even funnier after they wrote up 3 different GSQR's for the tank, and still could not get right what they really and in the end they say what we wanted is an Upgraded T-72.

Why the hell dud they not issue a new GSQR they did 3 time's already , would it have made a difference for the 4th time.

But no they issued three different Sets of requirements without time to develop anything , prompting three re-designs. And then tried to cancel India's first attempt to make a tank.

Let me make something clear, when your developing a system for the first time. The idea is to create the infrastructure and foundation to develop such systems again in the future.
IF IA wants its FMBT with its list of dreamy requirements , You need to build something first. Before attempting to make cutting edge tanks.

If Arjun was canceled of scarped , you want them to start all over from scratch for the FMBT. A tank that will never be delivered on time given that situation.
You want cutting edge , world class systems , from development agency's that would have had no experience with developing anything of the sort.

Lucky for us our enemies aren't the US or NATO. So, our current battlefield scenario will be the same. It is post 2020 that is cause for concern.

US and NATO ?
Yhea tell me what tanks are those you are talking about
Your words

Arjun, Abrams, Leo, Challenger 2, etc cannot survive a modern battlefield. A single Reaper drone can take out 14 tanks in a matter of minutes. You cannot survive with just a lot of armour. I had consistently repeated this earlier and reading the T-90 thread will give more answers to all your current questions. Hit avoidance is the new tactic. Hit survival is passe.

I would very much like to know what these 2010+ tanks are
Considering the US , Germany and England are out.
I will go out on a limb and the Russians and Chinese are out as well

So who in the world make these 2010+ tanks , or has even them ?

But wait you say this is not a cause for concern now, but you don't want to induct Arjun because it will be a cause for concern 2020+ ,
While at the same time you want to push the 1000+ T-72's another 20 years till 2030. By which point it will be 50 years old, more or less.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me ask you a question p2prada
For all the criticism or realism in you view that you trow on Arjun and LCA .

What the did you think they would be like , when the GSRQ and ASR were issued.
The armed forces conducted its own study on what the Indian sector could make
DRDO and MoD did the same with similar studies , evaluation studies carried out.

And finally they set out to build these complex systems in India from the ground setting up the infrastructure as you go.
With a very unambitious GSRQ and ASR that was constantly subject to change , due lack of long term planning despite the obvious time frames of the project.

What did you expect the Arjun and LCA to turn out like.
While both machines are turned out to be competent and in most cases comparable , you ask the world of capabilities from them.
Some of which have yet to be developed by more experienced and well funded institutions abroad.

You seem to neither care for nor respect the fact that India has developed a Fighter jet and Tank(in whatever percentage of indigenous content) , instead this is taken for granted.
With new requests for cutting edge systems like the FMBT and AMCA , while the 1st gent systems that make even the idea of developing them plausible are yet to see induction in numbers.
This is a step in the evolutionary process that you don't seems to care about.

While at the same time we hold onto the antiquated soviet junk in need of replacement.
Whether its the T-72 or the Mig-21 , its the same BS.

No one is asking them to replace the entire t-72 line , the benefits of inducting a few more Arjun tanks as opposed to upgrading a few 100 t-72's far outweigh any loss.

 

[Armand2REP]

Nobody knows the reasons for cancellation. But we all know that development was indeed delayed and may perhaps overshoot schedule by a long margin. So, that would be one of the reasons for cancellation. Another would be financial of course.

As for your second statement, it is only an assumption.

Also you cannot bring Russia, Germany or America into an India discussion. Heck we don't even have a working tank engine and have to make do with whatever some body throws away. So, can't compare.

We know well the reason for cancellation. Popovkin made the argument quite clear at the round table. Russia lacks technology in transmissions, power packs, C4ISR and big engines. If you don't have an engine powerful enough to haul a 55t tank around, there is little incentive to produce it. The prototype is sitting at UMZ right now, already reviewed by the general staff and funding cut for the last 18 months. Russia is spending $600 billion on rearmament by 2020. Money for much needed modern tanks would not be hard to find if they had a product worth building. T-95 is another one of those Soviet Era designs that are not worth proceeding with.

As for the 2nd statement, it is fact as they have declared the attempt to build an electric drive tank. MIC doesn't have the capability to make such a vehicle without mass importation of production technology.

The future of the Russian military is very much like that of India. Two nations highly dependent on imported technology.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Well Mr.p2prada go to this link see for urself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaimanika_Shastra

fools like you who underestimate VEDAS and VEDA SHASTRA should see it, read it and then comment about it............

Never insult VEDAS.......

 

[Tomcat]

p2p the abject faliure of the T-serise tanks in the not so destant Gerogian-russo conflict should have served as a wake up call for the DG amour IA but alas that hasnt been the case
what the IA operates is a monkey Model of the T-72 (Monkey model was the unofficial designation given by the Soviet Military to versions military equipment (armored vehicles, airplanes, missiles) of significantly inferior capability to the original designs and intented only for export and soviet war time reserve use ) which in plain simple tems means we are operating coffins

 

[warriorextreme]

INDIA is far more powerfull than any country in the whole world. But it does not use the VEDIC knowledge to destroy the human race............

Never underestimate the power of VEDAS AND VEDA SHASTRAS...........

+100000000000000000000000000000000

i can write these zeros cause we indians started using it..

vimanik shashtra is indeed valuable book but some important parts of it are missing..i wish we can get them back somehow =sad

 

[warriorextreme]

also i would like to add here that Shivkur Bapuji Talpade was the first man who flew an unmanned aircraft 4 years before wright brothers...british suppressed it..
i would add a link thought it has nothing to do with FMBT(my apology) but some ppl need to be reminded of their glorious forgotten past when they are blinded by western technology.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

SHASTRAS like Vimanika Shastra and many shastras like that are still present in SRINGERI and also at KASHI, particularly at Benaras Hindu university, The GREAT UNIVERSITY OF NALANDA. They are not holy scriptures, they SCIENCE OF VEDAS. They are not just books, they are the knowledge of GREAT PEOPLE who achieved it only after experiments and experience. It is not so easy to understand or implement what they have given b'cos people of mordern times are not that qualified in SANSKRIT and also in VEDAS. Incase if they are qualified in SANSKRIT they don not know how to use it b'cos it is not so easy to understand the VEDIC SCIENCE. We the people of INDIA and GoI should look into the matter and take or make effort to bring the knowledge of the GRANTHAS which lie as waste.........

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

when the whole hearted effort of the upa is to loot lakhs of crores of public money and to appease the minorities to promote pseudo secularism then the knowledge of ancient granthas is bound to go waste.

 

[gogbot]

also i would like to add here that Shivkur Bapuji Talpade was the first man who flew an unmanned aircraft 4 years before wright brothers...british suppressed it..
i would add a link thought it has nothing to do with FMBT(my apology) but some ppl need to be reminded of their glorious forgotten past when they are blinded by western technology.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm

SHASTRAS like Vimanika Shastra and many shastras like that are still present in SRINGERI and also at KASHI, particularly at Benaras Hindu university, The GREAT UNIVERSITY OF NALANDA. They are not holy scriptures, they SCIENCE OF VEDAS. They are not just books, they are the knowledge of GREAT PEOPLE who achieved it only after experiments and experience. It is not so easy to understand or implement what they have given b'cos people of mordern times are not that qualified in SANSKRIT and also in VEDAS. Incase if they are qualified in SANSKRIT they don not know how to use it b'cos it is not so easy to understand the VEDIC SCIENCE. We the people of INDIA and GoI should look into the matter and take or make effort to bring the knowledge of the GRANTHAS which lie as waste.........

when the whole hearted effort of the upa is to loot lakhs of crores of public money and to appease the minorities to promote pseudo secularism then the knowledge of ancient granthas is bound to go waste.

oi oi oi

You guys are going way of topic.
Let's try to at least mention the FMBT in out posts.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

People should be well educated to call themselvws as TECHNOCRATS..........

Everyone who calls himself a technocrat here should learn from other members who do enough research about anything before posting that here. In my view I would like to say that KUNAL BISWASS BHAI is the best DFI TECHNOCRAT.........:emot112:

 

[gogbot]

People should be well educated to call themselvws as TECHNOCRATS..........

Everyone who calls himself a technocrat here should learn from other members who do enough research about anything before posting that here. In my view I would like to say that KUNAL BISWASS BHAI is the best DFI TECHNOCRAT.........:emot112:

No Avatar
warriorextreme
20 Minutes Ago

i know dude but ppl cant just deny knoweldge of shastras and call themselves technocrats or even INDIAN..

Going off topic or Hijacking a thread just ruins the quality of the forum. If you care so much to change this persons mind or advertise your beliefs /points to others to the point of completely off topic.
You can always make a new thread , or make use of the PM system.

I sincerely hope we can get back to talking about the FMBT or any Indian tank development.
If your going to push this beyond a point I will request mod intervention to safe guard the quality of the thread.

 

[Pandora]

holy fuck !! You people think drdo can ever even made a tank of 40T with this kinda feature ?? IA KNEW THIS ALREADY THAT NO COUNTRY CAN,SO FORGET ABOUT DRDO .HAHAHAHA i know at end they gonna import from Russia . Damn!high time we should dismantle Whole indian army specially its high rank generals .

 

[san]

holy fuck !! You people think drdo can ever even made a tank of 40T with this kinda feature ?? IA KNEW THIS ALREADY THAT NO COUNTRY CAN,SO FORGET ABOUT DRDO .HAHAHAHA i know at end they gonna import from Russia . Damn!high time we should dismantle Whole indian army specially its high rank generals .

Better import some generals from Russia and Israel, insted of equipments:happy_2:
I am waiting for the day that pakistan import chinese ZTZ99 tank and renamed as Al-Khalid X to see what will be IA's reaction.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Better import some generals from Russia and Israel, insted of equipments:happy_2:

Indian army has much better officers and generals than their`s so no need to make joke on our army as you dont have the right to do so. And even dont speak rubbish about DRDO, and speak bad about only when you are above it and I dont think you can make a tank or power a jet or can do just 1% what DRDO does for the nation.

 

[san]

Indian army has much better officers and generals than their`s so no need to make joke on our army as you dont have the right to do so. And even dont speak rubbish about DRDO, and speak bad about only when you are above it and I dont think you can make a tank or power a jet or can do just 1% what DRDO does for the nation.

Sorry , if I hurt somebody. But as an Indian, I have right to say what I feel in a open forum. But I am one in a billion and majorty may not be agree with me.