India's Future Main Battle Tank, NGMBT

bharadwaj

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I wanted to see some advanced tech being used like fuel-cells/electricity driven/hybrid engines etc I wish DRDO revolutionizes tank design rather than to evolve existing designs,It might be risky but once successful,they can see the results themselves.
 

tprop988

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Actually what I want to see is some competion. Needless to say, Indian defence manufacturing firms are having absolute monopoly over our indegenious defence projects. So what happens in the long run, is that our projects suffer from time and cost overruns. Indians have one of the highest IQ levels in this world. And now Indians have the money (India spends a staggering 37 billion USD in defence procurements annually). What we are lacking is a healthy competion in the defence sector. These sole firms gets the unacceptable chance to sit it out lightly. The result - HAL Tejas, Arjun MBT. A little development of the private sector might be able to solve this problem. We need a healthy, competetive tendering process where even the private indian firms gets a chance to cement their place in the defence sector. Indian defence market is one of the most lucrative markets in the world and this will result in the private firms working their heart out to get such projects. The result - world class defence products within the stipulated timeframe. Look at the US and other western countries. Their private defence firms are draining our country's brains and are producing world class products. For example, the US have multiple defence firms most notably the Lockheed Martin and Boeing. For any of the US Airforce (the most powerful and advanced airforce in the world), these two companies go through a vigorous tendering process in which they both develop prototypes according to the USAF requirements and present it before the USAF representatives within the stipulated timeframe to win their contracts. The result - F-22 Raptor, B-2 Spirit and most notably the F-15 Eagle (the most successful combat aircraft in aviation history) and many more. What they have now is a fully indegenious capability to develop weapon systems according to their requirements. They tender it out and the best wins. What I want to see is a similar develpment of the Indian defence sector by including Indian private firms in the tendering process. This in turn will create thousands of jobs in the country as the private firms will develop manufacturing and R&D facilities and thereby result in the overall development of the Indian economy. Only then we may hope that someday we will achieve full indegenisation of our defence sector like the western nations. It is not the same world anymore. The world has changed and its high time that we should too.
 
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plugwater

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Choosing Between 'Greenfield FMBT' & Arjun Mk3


[FONT=&quot]Why are the Indian Army's Directorate of Combat Vehicles[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and Directorate of Mechanised Forces [/FONT][FONT=&quot]procrastinating over the issuance of the General Staff Qualitative Requirements (GSQR) for the Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT), more than six months after they were scheduled to hand them over to the Ministry of Defence's (MoD) Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)? Why did the Army HQ's two above-mentioned Directorates only issue a vague Preliminary Specifications Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) document in mid-2010? Why did the DRDO's Avadi-based Combat Vehicles R & D Establishment (CVRDE) float a 'domestic and global expression of interest' (EoI) document on October 31, 2007 for the co-development of a 1,500hp compact high specific power output diesel engine long before it had even received the Army's PSQR? Why has the CVRDE not yet issued EoIs for the co-development of other sub-systems for the FMBT, including an automatic transmission system and its MIL-STD-1553B databus-based vectronics suite? What does the DRDO now mean when it claims that work on developing the FMBT will begin by 2013 and all related R & D activity will reach fruition by 2020? And why has the Army HQ suddenly lost all interest in the FMBT programme after all the hype generated in early 2007 about this landmark 'greenfield' programme involving for the very first time as equal risk-sharing R & D partners, the CVRDE and India's private-sector military-industrial entities? Does the Army HQ have a detailed joint [/FONT][FONT=&quot]capability-cum-force-planning vision for its warfighting formations? [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Let's start with the last question first. The three armed services HQ that publicly swear by 'jointness', all have different threat scenario perceptions. While the Indian Navy remains focused on the PLA Navy's growing footprints in the South China Sea and Indian Ocean Region, the Indian Air Force (IAF) remains obsessed with the PLA Air Force's strategic force projection capabilities and the Pakistan's growing asymmetric war-waging capacities through ballistic and cruise missiles. As for the Indian Army, the principal military threat to India emanates from the disputed land borders with both China and Pakistan and now from the increased blurring of the militarily held lines, i.e. the Line of Actual Control with China and the Line of Control with Pakistan. Furthermore, till today, neither the Chiefs of Staff Committee (COSC) nor the HQ Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) to the COSC have ever written a combined threat perceptions document—concerning either China or Pakistan—for consideration by either by the Cabinet Commiteee on National Security (CCNS), nor the MoD nor the office of the National Security Adviser. And why should they? After all they were never asked to do so by anyone in the executive branch of the Govt of India. It was only after the Army's constant badgering on the ever-increasing air-land threat from the People's Liberation Army that Defence Minister A K Antony issued the MoD's five-yearly operational directive in February 2010, in which the MoD directed the country's three armed services to be prepared for waging a two-front war. Consequently, the CCNS authorised the Indian Army to raise four new Infantry Divisions during the 11th (2008-2012) and 12th (2013-2017) Defence Plans.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Secondly, post-Operation Parakram, while a lot of energy has been expended by the three armed services HQs on massaging egos, self-aggrandisements and obfuscations, very little has been done in terms of combining their respective weights to push through urgently required structural reforms, especially when it involves sacrificing their own turfs. While the three armed services HQs have worked harmoniously for the Sixth Pay Commission's redresses, they have till date been unable to squarely address the operational imperatives so crucial to the evolution of joint air-sea-land warfighting doctrines. A case in point is the Army Aviation Corps' longstanding request for possessing fleets of heavy attack helicopters, light attack helicopters and armed aeroscout helicopters. After OP Parakram (the 10-month eyeball-to-eyeball standoff with Pakistan starting December 2011), the Army HQ, while in the process of conceptualising its future warfighting doctrines, plus the strategies and tactics required for waging 'hyperwar' or multi-dimensional parallel warfare, had projected a requirement for 120 heavy attack helicopters, 114 light attack helicopters and 197 armed aeroscouts, or light observation helicopters (LOH), all of which, if acquired, would have enabled the Army to radically restructure its existing armoured corps assets (comprising 61 Armoured Regiments now deployed with the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mathura-based I Corps, Ambala-based II Corps, Bhopal-based XXI Corps and the eight independent Armoured Brigades attached to the Corps-level 'Pivot' formations) and at the same time would have given the Army's combined arms war-waging capabilities a dramatic boost, especially when it came to shaping the battlespace prior to commencement of the crucial break-out of its Armoured Battle Groups into enemy territory during the contact battle. This, consequently, would have not only enabled the Army to downsize its fleet of MBTs from 3,529 units to 2,400 (by placing a premium on quality over quantity), but would have also made it much easier for the armoured corps to cater for a wider range of threats than just the Pakistan Army. Instead, the reality today is that the IAF continues to zealously guard its turf, refusing to give in to logical reasoning, while the MoD refuses to adjudicate and remains comatose. Consequently, it is the IAF that will receive not only the projected 22 to-be-imported heavy attack helicopters, but also the 76 Dhruv Mk4 armed gunships, and 65 Light Combat Helicopters that will optimised for shooting down UAVs and UCAVs instead of hunting for and attacking armoured vehicles. A similar fate awaits the 197 imported light helicopters, all of which will be configured as utility variants for catering to search-and-rescue and casualty evacuation missions. In sheer frustration, therefore, the Army's Aviation Corps has decided to relife and upgrade the bulk of its existing inventory of SA.315B Lama/Cheetah LOHs to the 'Cheetal' configuration by re-engining them with Turbomeca TM333-2B engines and installing lightweight AMLCD-based glass cockpit avionics, a countermeasures dispenser supplied by Bharat Dynamics Ltd, and a MILDS missile approach warning system supplied by Bharat Electronics Ltd. A contract for 60 upgraded Cheetals was recently inked with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd for relifing the airframes, with ALPHA Design Technologies Pvt Ltd acting as avionics systems integrator.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The senseless turf war between the Army and IAF HQs has had two avoidable and highly regressive consequences. Firstly, it has severely degraded the Indian Army's efforts to conceptualise the optimum pro-active warfighting strategy (mistakenly referred to as the non-existent Cold Start Doctrine by both Indian and foreign think-tanks) that is designed to both reduce the mobilisation time of its offensive formations and their break-out into Pakistan (within a 72-hour period) in a series of shallow thrusts going no deeper than 30km into enemy territory (therefore those who contend that very early in the war the Indian Army will make deep thrusts inside Pakistan are either being ignorant at best, or mischievous at worst). This is meant to ameliorate the Indian Army's disadvantage of longer external lines of communications as compared with the Pakistan Army's advantage of deploying and switching its warfighting formations along interior lines of communications. Given the fact that the next round of all-out war between the two countries will be short, swift and intense, the Indian Army believes that instead of making multiple Corps-level thrusts deep into enemy territory, the objective should be to force the Pakistan Army to commit its operational reserves into battle at the very early stages of the war, following which the Indian Army would employ superior operational art backed up by network-centric war-waging technologies to envelop and overwhelm the hostile forces by waging effects-based 'parallel' or 'hyper' war, thereby destroying the enemy's war-waging assets in detail. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Secondly, due to the absence of any kind of firm directives emanating from the comatose MoD regarding either the higher directions for waging war or the beefing up of the Army Aviation Corps, Army HQ has not yet succeeded in articulating its pro-active strategy vis-à-vis its Pakistani counterpart. Several questions remain unanswered till today. For instance, what will be the usefulness of the three armour-heavy offensive Strike Corps and the Armoured Battle Groups, depending on the theatre of war. Should the three existing Strike Corps be placed under a new Strategic Command (as was done for the very first time between March and June 2002 at the height of OP Parakram without any prior wargaming having being conducted on such a redeployment)? What will be the quantum of close air support and battlespace air interdiction provided by the IAF (to compensate for the Army's inferiority in field artillery) within the first 72 hours of hostilities breaking out, considering that early in the war the IAF's air campaigns will be monopolised by air superiority and counter-base sorties? Will China activate a second front against India and if so, then how much and in what ways will Beijing militarily support Pakistan? Will this prevent the Indian Army from re-deploying a few of its Mountain Divisions from the Sino-Indian border to the western front? Apart from all these, the internal bureaucratic wrangles within Army HQ have ensured that crucial force modernisation programmes that are designed to make the pro-active warfighting strategy a reality—such as those involving new-generation force multipliers like 155mm/52-cal field artillery assets, battlespace management system (BMS), F-INSAS and the tactical communications system (TCS)—are still years away from deployment. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Therefore, in light of all of the above, how exactly is the Indian Army expected to articulate the force restructuring-cum-modernisation plans for its armoured corps? The options, frankly speaking, are few. On one hand, the Indian Army has to take cognizance of the Pakistan Army's plans to introduce into service in the near future the Ukraine-supplied Oplot-M MBT, up to 800 new-build up-armoured Al Khalid MBTs, and possibly the Eurocopter Tiger HAP heavy attack helicopters. On the other hand, it has to contend with the steady build-up of the People's Liberation Army's armoured vehicle and attack helicopter assets—comprising Type 96G MBTs and wheeled 8 x 8 tank destroyers, plus the ZW-10 heavy attack helicopters—in China's Chengdu and Lanzhou military regions. And thirdly, it requires urgent new-build replacements for the existing [/FONT][FONT=&quot]1,781 T-55 and T-72M/M1 MBTs (out of the 2,418 T-72s that were bought since 1981). While the short-term measures have included the upgrading of 692 T-72s to 'Combat-Improved Ajeya' standards and an on-going competition between Russia's Rosoboronexport State Corp, ELBIT Systems of Israel, and the Raytheon/Larsen & Toubro combine to upgrade another 700-odd T-72s (with work scheduled for completion by 2018), Proceeding concurrently is the induction of T-90S MBTs and their selective upgradation. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]It may be recalled that in February 2001, India bought its first batch of 310 T-90S MBTs worth US$795 million, of which 120 were delivered off-the-shelf, 90 in semi-knocked down kits (for licenced-assembly by the MoD-owned Heavy Vehicles Factory, or HVF, in Avadi), and 100 in completely-knocked down kits (all these MBTs have since been retrofitted with Saab's IDAS radar/laser warning system and LEDS-150 active protection system, or APS). This was followed by a follow-on contract, worth $800 million, being inked on October 26, 2006, for another 330 T-90M MBTs that were to be built with locally-sourced raw materials. The third contract, worth $1.23 billion, was inked in December 2007 for 347 upgraded T-90Ms, the bulk of which are now being licence-assembled by HVF. A competition is now underway between Israel Military Industries (IMI) and Saab to retrofit APS to the remaining 677 T-90S MBTs, with the Iron First system competing with the LEDS-150. Lastly, we have the 124 Arjun Mk1 MBTs now in delivery, with another 124 Mk2 variants to follow. [/FONT]






[FONT=&quot]This then brings us to the most important question: what exactly will be the FMBT? Will it be brand-new design from scratch, or will be a further evolution of the Arjun Mk2? Evidence seems to suggest that it is the latter. For one, all the technological enhancements spelt out in the PSQRs are already available, with some of them (like APS, a 1,500hp diesel engine, and an integrated passive defensive aids suite) already incorporated in the Arjun Mk2. Secondly, the Army, choosing to be realistic this time, knows only too well that designing and developing a FMBT and its powerpack from scratch between 2013 and 2020 at a cost of Rs15 billion is an assured impossibility. However, what is achievable within this time-frame, is an Arjun Mk3 whose evolutionary path is very similar to what IMI has achieved with the Merkava family of MBTs. Consequently, the Indian Army[/FONT][FONT=&quot], which has projected a need for about 1,200 FMBTs, has chosen to take the less risky route and is soon expected to specify in its GSQR the following design/performance parameters for the born-again FMBT, which will eventually be known as the Arjun Mk3: [/FONT]


·[FONT=&quot]The re-engineered Arjun MBT should weigh only 50 tonnes and have a three-man crew complement. [/FONT]
·[FONT=&quot]Its powerpack should include either a 1,500hp diesel engine equipped with an overdrive mode for facilitating acceleration from zero to full power in 2.8 seconds, or a compact multi-fuel gas turbine with FADEC. The transmission must be of the automatic continuous variable-type.[/FONT]
·[FONT=&quot]It should incorporate hydropneumatic active suspension.[/FONT]
·[FONT=&quot]The integral armour package should include modular ceramic composite armour, and NERA (thereby doing away with integrated ERA and ERA tiles in the MBT's frontal glacis, sides and turret). [/FONT]
·[FONT=&quot]It should incorporate a turret-mounted autoloader.[/FONT]
·[FONT=&quot]Its digitised vectronics suite—comprising the hunter-killer fire-control system, radar/laser warning system, IFF transponder, APS, BMS, software-defined radio communications suite, health and usage monitoring system incorporating on-board diagnostics and maintenance log-book modes, multi-spectral decoy/camouflage generation system, and the turret traverse/stabilisation system—should be integrated with a MIL-STD-1553B digital databus. [/FONT]
·[FONT=&quot]As in the Arjun Mk2, the gunner's sight must incorporate a thermal imager operating in the 8-12 micron bandwidth, while the commander's independent panoramic sight should house a thermal imager operating in the 3-5 micron bandwidth.[/FONT]
·[FONT=&quot]The principal armament of the FMBT should be a 55-calibre version of the existing 44-calibre 120mm rifled bore cannon firing HEAT, HESH and AP-FSDS rounds, and which should also be able to fire laser-guided or imaging infra-red guided anti-tank/anti-helicopter projectiles.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]For the CVRDE and the ARDE, therefore, the principal developmental challenges to be met between now and 2020 lie in the areas of the weight-budgeted hull and turret, integrated vectronics suite, compact powerpack, and the higher-calibre cannon. Of these, the powerpack issue remains the most daunting. For if the existing solution for the Arjun Mk2—a fully Made-in-India Cummins 1,500hp diesel engine coupled to an ESM-500 automatic transmission—is retained for the Arjun Mk3, then accomplishing weight savings will be almost impossible (especially since the metallurgical expertise required for weight savings of the type achieved by Japan's Type 10 MBT is non-existent in India). On the other hand, if the standing offer by the joint industrial team of GE and Honeywell to supply the new-generation LV-100 gas turbine coupled to the X-1100-3B transmission from Detroit Diesel Allison is accepted and specified by Army HQ, then the Arjun Mk3 has very good chances of not breaching the 50-tonne 'Lakshman Rekha'. A gas turbine-based powerplant will offer higher power-to-weight ratio, high torque, multi-fuel capability, ease of maintenance, compact packaging, vibration-free operation, ease of starting, smokeless exhaust, and 33% reduction in fuel consumption.—Prasun K. Sengupta[/FONT]
 

Rahul92

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We need some more foreign tanks as we can't stand still till 2020
 

black eagle

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T-90S and Arjun MK-2 is more than enough to take care of any eventualities till FMBT or similar platform is developed.
But the question is will the Arjun MkII be inducted in enough numbers?? & is the T-90 good enough as it is today or will it need more upgradation?? These are big questions & unless answers to these questions are found in the future, problems with the armored corps of the IA will continue....
 

Kunal Biswas

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But the question is will the Arjun MkII be inducted in enough numbers?? & is the T-90 good enough as it is today or will it need more upgradation?? These are big questions & unless answers to these questions are found in the future, problems with the armored corps of the IA will continue....

Every tank go through upgrades, T-90S was upgraded / rectified since 2006 ( Problem with Engine and Thermal ), Arjun in future will too go through upgrades..
 

san

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A modified Russian IS-3 Of Post WW2..

Thanks Kunal.
My god, our FMBT is orginally design after the WWII:confused:
Seems people are more than interested to have a collobration with Russia to jointly produce or finaced the FMBT . What shall be the new name of FMBT, T95/96/97----------------
 

p2prada

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If we are playing with random speculations. Then these could be my ideas of what the FMBT would look like.





Being a little less conceptual;



A smaller version though. Unless we create 2 feet human soldiers.

Being most realistic;



A real concept tank along with another one;

 

Patriot

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The Cheshire Tank

BAE Systems' Adaptiv infrared stealth system for armored vehicles, developed by its Sweden-based Hagglunds unit, stole the show at last week's Defense & Security Equipment International exhibition in London, but it might face legal action before it ever sees combat....................



..........
.....Developed over the last couple of years, Adaptiv relies on thermoelectric cooling -- as used in plug-in beer coolers and to cool some electronic circuits. The system comprises a backplane, which provides mechanical, power and control support to just-over-palm-sized hexagonal tiles, each of which has its own cooling mechanism. The system is described as "light and robust" with no major effect on other armor or mobility. ..................
This one looks really formidable. Like to some of these stealth features in our FMBT as well.
 

Damian

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How next generation MBT should look like? Well to answer this we need to ask ourselfs how to solve some key problems in AFV design.

1) How to reduce weight without decreasing AFV protection?
2) How to increase vehicle and crew survivability?
3) How to reduce logistical stress, ease maintnance etc?
4) Other problems.


Solutions:

1)

As we know smaller vehicle can be well protected and still be light enough, on the other hand, less space inside means that in case of armor perforation crew have smaller chances to survive, how to solve this problem?

Firstly we should eleminate manned turret and replace it by unmanned turret, crew should be placed completely in hull, to be more precise in armored crew capsule inside hull.

Such vehicle should look more or less like this:



Also completely modular armor should be used, for example there can be 4 classes of modular armor, all interchangabale, so class 1 modules can be used with class 4 modules.

Class 1 modular armor should be as light as possible, designed for easy strategic transportation and for LIC operations where main threat are RPG's. Weight ~40 metric tons.

Class 2 armor should be densier and should provide good protection against old tank gun ammunition over frontal arc and more powerfull HEAT warheads over sides. Weight ~45 metric tons.

Class 3 should be standard high intensity conflict armor kit, offering high level of protection against modern KE and HEAT ammunitions. Weight ~50 metric tons.

Class 4 should be heavy armor package for high intensity conflicts with maximum possible frontal, side, rear and top protection. Weight ~55-60 metric tons.

There should be buld in to design capability to mount without any problems all possible additional armor types in form of outer modular kits mounted on base modular armor. Armor types used in such kits can contain ERA, heavy ERA, NERA, NxRA etc.

As a supplement for armor protection, active protection system should be used, so build in to design capability to use APS is desired.

For Stealth features we can use several simple and cheap solutions like Saab Barracuda Multispectral Camouflage System and Intermat IR camouflage paint.

2)

Besides armor protection as vehicle and crew survivability system, we should also completely isolate crew, ammo compartment and powerpack compartment from eachother. Blow off panels over engine compartment are needed.

Fuel also should be as much isolated as possible from powerpack to decrease probability of engine fire.

3)

This is big problem because we need to ask ourselfes what we really want.

- A dedicated MBT hull,
- A Universal Combat Platform for MBT, IFV, SPH etc. etc.

In solution one, to ease maintnance, logistics etc. We need to use: Hydrogas suspension system so there will be more space inside hull, such suspension type is highly modular, suspension units modules are small and light. Engine should be as compact as possible and in the same time as powerfull as possible.

All possible components should be common with other heavy tracked combat vehicles.

In solution two, all same as above with one difference, we will use one common chassis, that can be equipped with mission modules + in such solution, desired is front mounted engine.

For example MBT mission module will have unmanned turret with tank gun, autoloader under unmanned turret, possible additional space for more ammo that when there is calm time between combat, can be reloaded in to autoloader cassettes, besides main gun, there will be coaxial machine gun and there should be CITV/RWS armed with heavy machine gun, automatic grenade launcher or standard machine gun with same calliber as coaxial weapon.

IFV mission module will have unmanned turret with all ammunition for automatic cannon and coax machine gun stored in such turret (turret bustle?), with such design and crew in their own capsule in hull, dismounts compartment can be very spacious, so there will be possibility to take 9 or 10 dismounts even + their equipment, ammunition etc.

For SPH situation will be similiar like in MBT.

SPAAG can be like MBT and SPH mission modules or additional crew can be placed in mission module (+ additional ammunition for automatic cannons and more missiles).

Etc. etc.

We can go even further with universal combat platform idea.

For example:

For Heavy Brigades we will use Heavy Tracked Universal Combat Platforms.
For Medium Brigades we will use Medium Tracked Universal Combat Platforms.
For Light Brigades we can use Light Tracked or Wheeled Universal Combat Platforms.

Note that common components are desired at least between Heavy and Medium Tracked UCP's and not only between mission variants within one UCP type.
 

Austin

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Apparently it was rumored that the now cancelled T-95 tanks had unmanned turret controlled remotely by crew in isolated armoured capsule and the Universal Combat Platform is the idea behind the new Armata project , which would standardise with Heavy ,Medium and Light tracked/wheeled platform as you have mentioned.

Indian FMBT official requirement from DRDO is for a under or equal to 50 T tank with modular armour ,high power to weight ratio ( will have 1500 hp indiginous diesel engine called Bharat Pack ) and Gun with versatile projectile and missile ( i am not sure if they go for NATO 120 mm or for greater standardisation go for 125 mm ).

The idea will be to greatly indiginous the tank with maximum indian designed and built system and components.
 

Austin

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I am just thinking a 50 T tank with a 1500 HP compact engine will give it a power to weight ratio of 30 hp/t .....that should even beat the 27 hp/t of T-80 with GT engine.

I think with greater emphasis on speed and mobility ( strategic/tactical ) the new tank is being geared up for manouver warfare , you add firepower protection level , BMS then you can see a good tank coming into being
 

Damian

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Universal Combat Platform is the idea behind the new Armata project , which would standardise with Heavy ,Medium and Light tracked/wheeled platform as you have mentioned.
Armata project is not new idea of heavy and medium UCP. In fact first such project was US.Army Armored Systems Modernisation (ASM) program.

http://edocs.nps.edu/npspubs/scholarly/theses/1992/Jun/92Jun_Boelke.pdf

Here is PDF (someones work, some offiers or something like that) that wrote some basic informations about ASM.
 

agentperry

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tank manufacturers all over the world are working hard to retain their customers by developing new technologies and making tank stealthier and more efficient. any new breaking news about any significant or insignificant development in the tank world pops up army's top brass and they change their Qualitative requirement. they completely disregard the technological competency of DRDO and the way Indian official machinery works. on one hand to test indigenous stuff they take so much time in paper works and all and on other to buy off the shelf thing they show cheetah speed( in the name of national security that too in between war or at the brink of same).

has work started upon futuristic tank till now. no other tank project except arjun is going on. drdo functions like low level multi task celeron in the age of i7
 

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