India's Air Defense System and its Capabilities

[Tshering22]

Bro variety is weapon in itself. If you have 1 type of air defense system enemy need to counter this 1 only but if you have 10 types of air defense system enemy needs to tackle bewildering array of air defense system and enemy might get confused but this also decrease synergy in our weaponry. We require more coordination for different weapons.

Then what is stopping our country from making 3-4 different types of SAM systems? Missiles is one area where we are incredibly self-sufficient, and yet, most of the times we continue importing, thereby increasing our reliance on outsiders more and more.

Had PAD and AAD been inducted into the military, we won't have had the need to buy S-400. India really needs to get out of this 'must import' compulsion at the cost of a few arms middlemen and IAS babus who oversee the acquisition.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Then what is stopping our country from making 3-4 different types of SAM systems? Missiles is one area where we are incredibly self-sufficient, and yet, most of the times we continue importing, thereby increasing our reliance on outsiders more and more.

Had PAD and AAD been inducted into the military, we won't have had the need to buy S-400. India really needs to get out of this 'must import' compulsion at the cost of a few arms middlemen and IAS babus who oversee the acquisition.

Comparing PAD/AAD to S-400 is an apples to oranges comparison. PAD/AAD are anti ballastic missile system meant for knocking down targets like SRBM, IRBM, ICBM whereas S-400 is a surface to air missile system meant for knocking down aircraft, cruise missiles and even ballastic missiles but that too in an extremely limited scope. I wouldn't place my bets completey on S-400 to protect me from ballastic missile attacks and this where ABM systems like PAD/AAD comes into play. Import of Surface to Air Missile(SAM) systems other than S-400 have pretty much stopped since the Spyder purchase back in 2009. MRSAM/Barak 8 is a joint development and hence I wouldn't classify it as an import.
Soviet relics like SA-8, SA-13 being replaced by QRSAM and SA-6 is being replaced with Akash.
S-400 is necessary in India's scenario as India currently does not possess a long range SAM systems capable of knocking down enemy targets like fighter jets, bombers, AWACS, tankers at extreme ranges of 250+ km and the addition of cruise missile defence and limited ABM capabilities of the S-400 acts as a bonus.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Oour defence capability...I have to say only one thing...

" GANTA BHI NAHI HAI "

 

[mandestiny]

Oour defence capability...I have to say only one thing...

" GANTA BHI NAHI HAI "

Arre bhau any proof ?

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Arre bhau any proof ?

Aapke paas kuch proof hoto bataiye...humare paas to kuch nahi hai .....

 

[mandestiny]

Aapke paas kuch proof hoto bataiye...humare paas to kuch nahi hai .....

Bhai dekho na india pe koi hmla karta hai, na India kisi pe hamla karta hai.

Air defence kaha se pata chale ? Bus isi intezaar main hai

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian army Igla missile

 

[Lonewolf]

Aapke paas kuch proof hoto bataiye...humare paas to kuch nahi hai .....

Which area of interest you wanna talk about

 

[IndianHawk]

Then what is stopping our country from making 3-4 different types of SAM systems? Missiles is one area where we are incredibly self-sufficient, and yet, most of the times we continue importing, thereby increasing our reliance on outsiders more and more.

Had PAD and AAD been inducted into the military, we won't have had the need to buy S-400. India really needs to get out of this 'must import' compulsion at the cost of a few arms middlemen and IAS babus who oversee the acquisition.

We are making different types of sam systems concurrently. There is base layer of QRsAM and akash sam. After which we have recently tested akash NG with 80km range and vlsam which is vertically launched Astra missile.

After them we have indo Israeli mrsam and barak 8 lrsam which are being deployed for iaf and army.

We are also developing xr sam with 200km+ range which will be tested very soon.

Once XRSAM is here we will combine akash , Akash ng ,XRSAM etc to form our own s400 type integrated system.

After s400 india won't important another sam system. That is the last major sam import.

Overall our missiles important is going down. In 5-6 years we might stop importing any missile from abroad at all.

 

[Lonewolf]

We are making different types of sam systems concurrently. There is base layer of QRsAM and akash sam. After which we have recently tested akash NG with 80km range and vlsam which is vertically launched Astra missile.

After them we have indo Israeli mrsam and barak 8 lrsam which are being deployed for iaf and army.

We are also developing xr sam with 200km+ range which will be tested very soon.

Once XRSAM is here we will combine akash , Akash ng ,XRSAM etc to form our own s400 type integrated system.

After s400 india won't important another sam system. That is the last major sam import.

Overall our missiles important is going down. In 5-6 years we might stop importing any missile from abroad at all.

One correction here , akash is to bulky system ,we may see vlsrsam turning into a complement of akash mk1 , then akash ng , barak 8 is equivalent to akash ng , so we can replace barak 8 launcher which is damn expensive with akash ng , if integration with radar is done well , xrsam will may have two missile type , in radar front , our own system are already good enough and developed , we need a full integration from smaller radar to bigger ones , some good command units , where we can handle all our sam units .

 

[WolfPack86]

DRDO fabricating 10 manpads

 

[Tshering22]

Comparing PAD/AAD to S-400 is an apples to oranges comparison. PAD/AAD are anti ballastic missile system meant for knocking down targets like SRBM, IRBM, ICBM whereas S-400 is a surface to air missile system meant for knocking down aircraft, cruise missiles and even ballastic missiles but that too in an extremely limited scope. I wouldn't place my bets completey on S-400 to protect me from ballastic missile attacks and this where ABM systems like PAD/AAD comes into play. Import of Surface to Air Missile(SAM) systems other than S-400 have pretty much stopped since the Spyder purchase back in 2009. MRSAM/Barak 8 is a joint development and hence I wouldn't classify it as an import.
Soviet relics like SA-8, SA-13 being replaced by QRSAM and SA-6 is being replaced with Akash.
S-400 is necessary in India's scenario as India currently does not possess a long range SAM systems capable of knocking down enemy targets like fighter jets, bombers, AWACS, tankers at extreme ranges of 250+ km and the addition of cruise missile defence and limited ABM capabilities of the S-400 acts as a bonus.

Thanks for clarifying. Since PAD/AAD systems are for targeting incoming ballistic missiles and naturally would have higher requirements than S-400s as you say, doesn't it make sense for the government to have used the learnings from PAD-AAD systems into developing an S-400 equivalent?

I understand that these are two different missiles, but under the IGMP program, India has sufficient experience working with guided rockets and missiles to develop long-range missiles for both defensive and offensive purposes. If anything, the $5.8 billion could have been poured into the development and by now we would have had something taking shape.

While S-400 is an immediate requirement, can't we hold off a little longer and rather go for an indigenous offshoot development? Given that we have sufficient knowledge and skills to make them, it should not take too long to develop one.

Why keep buying from outside?

 

[Lonewolf]

Thanks for clarifying. Since PAD/AAD systems are for targeting incoming ballistic missiles and naturally would have higher requirements than S-400s as you say, doesn't it make sense for the government to have used the learnings from PAD-AAD systems into developing an S-400 equivalent?

I understand that these are two different missiles, but under the IGMP program, India has sufficient experience working with guided rockets and missiles to develop long-range missiles for both defensive and offensive purposes. If anything, the $5.8 billion could have been poured into the development and by now we would have had something taking shape.

While S-400 is an immediate requirement, can't we hold off a little longer and rather go for an indigenous offshoot development? Given that we have sufficient knowledge and skills to make them, it should not take too long to develop one.

Why keep buying from outside?

Because s 400 give explotation to more than just missile , air defence architecture , pantsir , s 400 missile ,radar , etc ,and s 400 deal was also a deal to happy up russian , we already have xrsam in development , akash ng if added with a solid booster could give 150 km , and that almost cover our requirements , although range maybe 50-60 km shorter for xrsam but it would be more accurate than russian counterpart , and would be production ready not before 2025

 

[IndianHawk]

Thanks for clarifying. Since PAD/AAD systems are for targeting incoming ballistic missiles and naturally would have higher requirements than S-400s as you say, doesn't it make sense for the government to have used the learnings from PAD-AAD systems into developing an S-400 equivalent?

I understand that these are two different missiles, but under the IGMP program, India has sufficient experience working with guided rockets and missiles to develop long-range missiles for both defensive and offensive purposes. If anything, the $5.8 billion could have been poured into the development and by now we would have had something taking shape.

While S-400 is an immediate requirement, can't we hold off a little longer and rather go for an indigenous offshoot development? Given that we have sufficient knowledge and skills to make them, it should not take too long to develop one.

Why keep buying from outside?

Because our integrated missile system comprising of all layers of ideginious missile like QRsAM , Akash ng, mrsam and XRSAM will take 6-7years to be ready because XRSAM is yet to be tested. While s400 will be operational very soon.

S400 immediately provides us multiple capabilities which we are lacking in numbers such as

S400 reduces need for point defence fighter like MiG-21 as it will permanently defend huge area against enemy jets..

It's powerful radar with 600 km range will act as permanent awacs in border areas continuously keeping track of enemy activities while airforce lacks enough number of awacs .

So that way s400 is a good investment. It saves a lot of resources and provide enormous capabilities while we develop our own systems in this decade.

After s400 everything will be indian.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Because our integrated missile system comprising of all layers of ideginious missile like QRsAM , Akash ng, mrsam and XRSAM will take 6-7years to be ready because XRSAM is yet to be tested. While s400 will be operational very soon.

S400 immediately provides us multiple capabilities which we are lacking in numbers such as

S400 reduces need for point defence fighter like MiG-21 as it will permanently defend huge area against enemy jets..

It's powerful radar with 600 km range will act as permanent awacs in border areas continuously keeping track of enemy activities while airforce lacks enough number of awacs .

So that way s400 is a good investment. It saves a lot of resources and provide enormous capabilities while we develop our own systems in this decade.

After s400 everything will be indian.

Yes, I would not put all my eggs in DRDO or GOI until they prove that things actually work as advertized in field, GOI has the back bone and skill to execute various programs minus stupid politics....s400 is something we need to take some stress off in Galwan like tense situation

 

[Lonewolf]

Because our integrated missile system comprising of all layers of ideginious missile like QRsAM , Akash ng, mrsam and XRSAM will take 6-7years to be ready because XRSAM is yet to be tested. While s400 will be operational very soon.

S400 immediately provides us multiple capabilities which we are lacking in numbers such as

S400 reduces need for point defence fighter like MiG-21 as it will permanently defend huge area against enemy jets..

It's powerful radar with 600 km range will act as permanent awacs in border areas continuously keeping track of enemy activities while airforce lacks enough number of awacs .

So that way s400 is a good investment. It saves a lot of resources and provide enormous capabilities while we develop our own systems in this decade.

After s400 everything will be indian.

We need monile variant of our radars , hpr , fcr and many more

 

[Tshering22]

Yes, I would not put all my eggs in DRDO or GOI until they prove that things actually work as advertized in field, GOI has the backbone and skill to execute various programs minus stupid politics....s400 is something we need to take some stress off in Galwan-like tense situation

Well, the only option to go indigenous is the defence PSUs. Even the most decisive and hardened, meritorious and nationalistic government in India will not let strategic missiles be manufactured by private companies like the USA. That means regardless of any form of government, the DRDO IGMP program will remain under the Sarkari vigilance.

While I agree that S-400 is a good investment, for now, India needs to increase the defense budget (I mean capital + R&D budget) by putting an additional 1% of the GDP at least. We cannot have agencies being starved of government funds for stupid populist measures and let our defense programs suffer.

For all the bonhomie the Quad is showing right now, we will be in the exact same spot as China in the coming 15-20 years. At that time, it won't matter whether we are a democracy or a monarchy or a dictatorship to them.

It basically means, that we have only a 15-year window to make everything ourselves before we become the next Enemy #1 for the US deep state.

 

[Lonewolf]

Well, the only option to go indigenous is the defence PSUs. Even the most decisive and hardened, meritorious and nationalistic government in India will not let strategic missiles be manufactured by private companies like the USA. That means regardless of any form of government, the DRDO IGMP program will remain under the Sarkari vigilance.

While I agree that S-400 is a good investment, for now, India needs to increase the defense budget (I mean capital + R&D budget) by putting an additional 1% of the GDP at least. We cannot have agencies being starved of government funds for stupid populist measures and let our defense programs suffer.

For all the bonhomie the Quad is showing right now, we will be in the exact same spot as China in the coming 15-20 years. At that time, it won't matter whether we are a democracy or a monarchy or a dictatorship to them.

It basically means, that we have only a 15-year window to make everything ourselves before we become the next Enemy #1 for the US deep state.

Actually i would bid for a more integrated research and development , where rnd is done in collaboration of indian academia , drdo , private player , yeah but they should be givrn contract for manufacturing of not so sensitive tech , which is disruptive and only we have , all iit ,nit ,iisc , csir ,hal ,nal, bel all together for particular project , funding would be better utilized ,and we should cut funding of all social science colleges .

 

[omaebakabaka]

Well, the only option to go indigenous is the defence PSUs. Even the most decisive and hardened, meritorious and nationalistic government in India will not let strategic missiles be manufactured by private companies like the USA. That means regardless of any form of government, the DRDO IGMP program will remain under the Sarkari vigilance.

While I agree that S-400 is a good investment, for now, India needs to increase the defense budget (I mean capital + R&D budget) by putting an additional 1% of the GDP at least. We cannot have agencies being starved of government funds for stupid populist measures and let our defense programs suffer.

For all the bonhomie the Quad is showing right now, we will be in the exact same spot as China in the coming 15-20 years. At that time, it won't matter whether we are a democracy or a monarchy or a dictatorship to them.

It basically means, that we have only a 15-year window to make everything ourselves before we become the next Enemy #1 for the US deep state.

Absolutely, strategic like nuclear missiles, Subs, Radars must be absolutely 100% indigenous....atleast in the area of strategic missles we are 100% already....not true for subs yet.
Definitely need bigger budget commensurate to our economy size and constant threats from neighbors from all directions. Quad is as good as still born and dead and India simply does not have the balls for decisive defense partnerships, this is good and bad and west is not the same as it was. We are better off alone and perhaps some deep partnerships like with Israel and Russia but we are on our own and can't trust or depend on others.

 

[bhramos]