Indian Special Forces

[Kumaoni]

Kargil was won by AF.. arty.. multiplied by human wave tactics.

Nonsense. Yes AF played a role and artillery did in damaging their morale, and their supply dumps, but it was a plethora of different tactical adjustments which ended up winning battles like Tiger Hill. For eg, Tiger hill was taken by a multidirectional assault after frontal assault failed.

You can read this comparative essay by an American captain which compares Kargil and Operation Anaconda: https://indianstrategicknowledgeonline.com/web/High Altitude Warfare Thesis 1.pdf

 

[Kumaoni]

Lol clinging to a few Ops (with mixed results) spread over decades. ISAF/NATO SFs we’re doing 1000s of missions annual during GWOT that Indian SFs would be chest thumping about for years if they did just one type mission.

It’s embarrassing at this point to pretend there is equivalence

Won’t compare with NATO SFs, but all of these operations were indeed both successful and impressive by any means.

You should read about Megh Singh, founder of Indian Para SF.

Not saying we are better, but Indian army does have a good record.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Nonsense. Yes AF played a role and artillery did in damaging their morale, and their supply dumps, but it was a plethora of different tactical adjustments which ended up winning battles like Tiger Hill. For eg, Tiger hill was taken by a multidirectional assault after frontal assault failed.

You can read this comparative essay by an American captain which compares Kargil and Operation Anaconda: https://indianstrategicknowledgeonline.com/web/High Altitude Warfare Thesis 1.pdf

I am not talking about battle.. I am talking about the fucking war.

And here is a video on your battle.

 

[Kumaoni]

I am not talking about battle.. I am talking about the fucking war.

And here is a video on your battle.

I’m saying it was a multitude of things that won the war. Capture of Tiger Hill convinced Pak they could no longer win and they withdrew. Pak held positions were falling like pins after that as per Gen VP Malik

And I won’t even mention the capture of Anzbari Complex and Point 5770 by our men, the latter of which was won by a brilliantly executed silent attack by 6 men of the Rajput regiment.

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

Seriously I have no doubts on Para SF or any other unit of Indian arm

Won’t compare with NATO SFs, but all of these operations were indeed both successful and impressive by any means.

You should read about Megh Singh, founder of Indian Para SF.

Not saying we are better, but Indian army does have a good record.

Even Lt Col Megh Singh Demoted by His seniors and politicians( not sure about the politician ) for doing miracles behind the LOC

 

[Kumaoni]

Seriously I have no doubts on Para SF or any other unit of Indian arm
Even Lt Col Megh Singh Demoted by His seniors and politicians( not sure about the politician ) for doing miracles behind the LOC

Heh? Lt. Gen Harbaksh Singh personally pinned his Vir Chakra on him

 

[mokoman]

wonder where this place is .

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I’m saying it was a multitude of things that won the war. Capture of Tiger Hill convinced Pak they could no longer win and they withdrew. Pak held positions were falling like pins after that as per Gen VP MalikView attachment 161790


And I won’t even mention the capture of Anzbari Complex and Point 5770 by our men, the latter of which was won by a brilliantly executed silent attack by 6 men of the Rajput regiment.

Bhai if you want to bring the bias game coz your family members are in the Infantry then i cannot say anything na?

The fact will always remain that Infantry was getting slaughtered in that harsh terrain before Arty came up.

AF was dropping bombs blindly and most of the times on own position(ex TACDE guy told me)

Nachiketa jis crash had messed up the op for AF just like Abhinandan ji did it and messed up the future course of actions.

Then the Arty came up and even Musharraf was shocked and impressed by Bofors power.

The big 4 which most of us wont know about were all shivering as India started bringing Arty.

Gen Aziz has even said 10 years later in an interview that.. Then the big guns came and everything was over.

But this happend then that happened is secondary boss.. when Arty hits the enemy they loose their balance and is rightly said that God is with those who has the biggest guns.

Now you can bring Kumaon regtt or Ladakh scouts or Batra sir or Manoj Pandey sir.. but the fact will remain the fact.

 

[vidhwanshak]

Bhai if you want to bring the bias game coz your family members are in the Infantry then i cannot say anything na?

The fact will always remain that Infantry was getting slaughtered in that harsh terrain before Arty came up.

AF was dropping bombs blindly and most of the times on own position(ex TACDE guy told me)

Nachiketa jis crash had messed up the op for AF just like Abhinandan ji did it and messed up the future course of actions.

Then the Arty came up and even Musharraf was shocked and impressed by Bofors power.

The big 4 which most of us wont know about were all shivering as India started bringing Arty.

Gen Aziz has even said 10 years later in an interview that.. Then the big guns came and everything was over.

But this happend then that happened is secondary boss.. when Arty hits the enemy they loose their balance and is rightly said that God is with those who has the biggest guns.

Now you can bring Kumaon regtt or Ladakh scouts or Batra sir or Manoj Pandey sir.. but the fact will remain the fact.

Indian Arty outranged outgunned the adversary. The shelling was so fierce that Pakis Arty units stopped providing support to their men holding the heights lest they were targetted too.

This instance shows why better equipments will always keep you ahead of your enemy by huge margins even when taken by surprise.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Indian Arty outranged outgunned the adversary. The shelling was so fierce that Pakis Arty units stopped providing support to their men holding the heights lest they were targetted too.

This instance shows why better equipments will always keep you ahead of your enemy by huge margins even when taken by surprise.

Bhai the logic in this thread full of masterminds is incredible.

 

[Kumaoni]

Bhai if you want to bring the bias game coz your family members are in the Infantry then i cannot say anything na?

The fact will always remain that Infantry was getting slaughtered in that harsh terrain before Arty came up.

Even with artillery support Indian infantry would have gotten killed, why? Because you can’t capture mountain positions by frontal assaults.

And what exactly is the issue with using artillery? Last time I check artillery support has been used in most mountain assaults in Indian military history.

None of this changes the fact that infantry adjusted and made multidirectional assaults while the arty fired and weakened the posts. Pak also had arty support on their side (Ind took some causalites due to arty), but the Indian arty was way more effective. Not to mention Pak had mined their positions very well.

Unlike you claiming and giving credit to only one arm branch, I’m saying it was a result of coordination between the Infantry and Artillery, which is important and crucial to any operation.

Also indian troops, especially the ones who assaulted tiger hill were very poorly equipped for mountain warfare

 

[vidhwanshak]

Also indian troops, especially the ones who assaulted tiger hill were very poorly equipped for mountain warfare

This sums up everything, mate.
23 saal pahle bhi yehi halat the, aaj bhi yehi hai

And what exactly is the issue with using artillery? Last time I check artillery support has been used in most mountain assaults in Indian military history.

You should go read the previous pages on how it started.
The person claimed that the infantry won the Kargil.

 

[India Super Power]

Even with artillery support Indian infantry would have gotten killed, why? Because you can’t capture mountain positions by frontal assaults.

And what exactly is the issue with using artillery? Last time I check artillery support has been used in most mountain assaults in Indian military history.

None of this changes the fact that infantry adjusted and made multidirectional assaults while the arty fired and weakened the posts. Pak also had arty support on their side (Ind took some causalites due to arty), but the Indian arty was way more effective. Not to mention Pak had mined their positions very well.

Unlike you claiming and giving credit to only one arm branch, I’m saying it was a result of coordination between the Infantry and Artillery, which is important and crucial to any operation.

Also indian troops, especially the ones who assaulted tiger hill were very poorly equipped for mountain warfare

Point is just look at pic of 1999 kargil war and of today's
U will find utterly no difference
But just check infantry pics of other countries not necessary they fought a war in 1999 but their today's pic is way more advanced than any sf battalions in our nation
We had we had made war committee we had experience but result is visibly worse

 

[Kumaoni]

This sums up everything, mate.
23 saal pahle bhi yehi halat the, aaj bhi yehi hai

You should go read the previous pages on how it started.
The person claimed that the infantry won the Kargil.

First of all infantry alone can’t win wars, no ones infantry has ever won a war on its own, so this person is wrong. You need coordination between the varying branches, and india (after suffering initial setbacks), made all the necessary adjustments to strike back and win many of the peaks back (while Pak withdrew from a few).

However, denying the heroics of some of the infantry is just wrong. Indian infantry indeed fought bravely at heights. To put in the words of Lt. Gen Panag (an ardent critic of the IA);
“ But a lot changed in the second half, and by the time the war came to an end on 26 July 1999, Indian Army troops had done incredibly well and their outstanding performance would remain indelibly etched in military history. I know of no other example where such determination, grit, spirit of self-sacrifice, and devotion to duty has been displayed.”

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

Heh? Lt. Gen Harbaksh Singh personally pinned his Vir Chakra on him

I know that I forgot his name

 

[Kumaoni]

Point is just look at pic of 1999 kargil war and of today's
U will find utterly no difference
But just check infantry pics of other countries not necessary they fought a war in 1999 but their today's pic is way more advanced than any sf battalions in our nation
We had we had made war committee we had experience but result is visibly worse

I agree that IA infantry unfortunately looks the exact same as it did in Kargil. Need more funding on the armed forces instead of socialist schemes.

 

[rohit b3]

First of all infantry alone can’t win wars, no ones infantry has ever won a war on its own, so this person is wrong. You need coordination between the varying branches, and india (after suffering initial setbacks), made all the necessary adjustments to strike back and win many of the peaks back (while Pak withdrew from a few).

However, denying the heroics of some of the infantry is just wrong. Indian infantry indeed fought bravely at heights. To put in the words of Lt. Gen Panag (an ardent critic of the IA);
“ But a lot changed in the second half, and by the time the war came to an end on 26 July 1999, Indian Army troops had done incredibly well and their outstanding performance would remain indelibly etched in military history. I know of no other example where such determination, grit, spirit of self-sacrifice, and devotion to duty has been displayed.”

I wont get involved in any more arguments, but no, that person is lying..again.
Since I was solely talking about our Infantry and Special forces, i related their achievements in Kargil war(among other examples) and i was rebutted with "Arty won the Kargil war".

To which i replied, and i quote :-

"If there was no Arty, only infantry and AF, we wouldn have won the war.
If there was no AF, only Arty and infantry, we wouldn have won the war.
If there was no infantry, only arty and AF, we wouldn have won the war.

Understand how wars are fought and how various branches operate together. "

I never said "The person claimed that the infantry ALONE won Kargil. "

 

[The Saffron Knight]

Bhai if you want to bring the bias game coz your family members are in the Infantry then i cannot say anything na?

The fact will always remain that Infantry was getting slaughtered in that harsh terrain before Arty came up.

AF was dropping bombs blindly and most of the times on own position(ex TACDE guy told me)

Nachiketa jis crash had messed up the op for AF just like Abhinandan ji did it and messed up the future course of actions.

Then the Arty came up and even Musharraf was shocked and impressed by Bofors power.

The big 4 which most of us wont know about were all shivering as India started bringing Arty.

Gen Aziz has even said 10 years later in an interview that.. Then the big guns came and everything was over.

But this happend then that happened is secondary boss.. when Arty hits the enemy they loose their balance and is rightly said that God is with those who has the biggest guns.

Now you can bring Kumaon regtt or Ladakh scouts or Batra sir or Manoj Pandey sir.. but the fact will remain the fact.

You have proven your point that a better equipped & more combat experienced SF will always have an upper hand.

And honestly comparing American & NATO SF who has seen combat in so many places around the world like Afganistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Kuwait or Vietnam. And comparing them with Indian SF who has only been engaged in Kashmir valley & along NE is very unfare comparison.

It is not the fault of Indian SF that India as a country didn't invade so many other countries.

These are people who have laid down their lives in combating terrorists, so that your armchair experts can sit in your couch & abuse them 24*7.

 

[vidhwanshak]

I wont get involved in any more arguments, but no, that person is lying..again.
Since I was solely talking about our Infantry and Special forces, i related their achievements in Kargil war(among other examples) and i was rebutted with "Arty won the Kargil war".

To which i replied, and i quote :-

"If there was no Arty, only infantry and AF, we wouldn have won the war.
If there was no AF, only Arty and infantry, we wouldn have won the war.
If there was no infantry, only arty and AF, we wouldn have won the war.

Understand how wars are fought and how various branches operate together. "

I never said "The person claimed that the infantry ALONE won Kargil. "

Indian Special Forces

Why add that caveat at all? Coincidentally I watched A bridge too far for the first time just the other day :). should have added that before itself, my bad. And i am sorry, never heard of that film. I watch very little war movies .

defenceforumindia.com

 

[vidhwanshak]

These are people who have laid down their lives in combating terrorists, so that your armchair experts can sit in your couch & abuse them 24*7.

Asking for better equipment and increasing the standard of training is now termed as abusing?
Equipment save lives. If they were given better equipment, many of them wouldn't have been KIA.