Indian Special Forces

[Scramjet]

Again, you seem to read between the lines. Watch a black hawk taking off and approaching the helipad. Watch a V22 lifting vertically up and converting and when it is approaching the helipad. Bigger aircraft can become good targets. Again, you are venturing into enemy territory. You don't know where a proper helipad is. Even if you select a designated place for an LZ, you don't know the surface of it. Think of a V22s nose landing oleo leg getting stuck in mud immediately after landing. What will you do. Will you keep digging or will you just try to lick it up and get into a dynamic rollover?

Why do you think 160th have pavehawks and Chinooks with refuelling probes? They can easily make that range with a V22. There is a reason.

I've regularly seen chinooks during night sortie, the only thing one can hear is minute vibrations (I was about a klik away from the hepter)

 

[Yodha]

I've regularly seen chinooks during night sortie, the only thing one can hear is minute vibrations (I was about a klik away from the hepter)

There is your answer

 

[Tactical Doge]

On a different note
This is screenshot from WION exclusive from LoC, what's shown is training at 15 corps battle school

Is he a para or Ghatak, if the former, Paras go to 15 CBS for training???
If he is a Ghatak, they get Tavors now???

 

[Yodha]

On a different note
This is screenshot from WION exclusive from LoC, what's shown is training at 15 corps battle school
View attachment 102823
Is he a para or Ghatak, if the former, Paras go to 15 CBS for training???
If he is a Ghatak, they get Tavors now???

If what I see is right, he is a khalsa and there is an identification colour patch on his forehead. And a tavor in hand. Might be anything. It's not like infantry can't get their hands on Tavors. -- intentionally deleted line----

 

[Fire and groove]

On a different note
This is screenshot from WION exclusive from LoC, what's shown is training at 15 corps battle school
View attachment 102823
Is he a para or Ghatak, if the former, Paras go to 15 CBS for training???
If he is a Ghatak, they get Tavors now???

Pretty sure the ghataks have had tavors for a long time now

 

[Fire and groove]

If what I see is right, he is a khalsa and there is an identification colour patch on his forehead. And a tavor in hand. Might be anything. It's not like infantry can't get their hands on Tavors. I'm neither but I had the privilege to have one for myself for quite a good amount of time.

Oh, which unit did you serve under?

 

[Yodha]

Pretty sure the ghataks have had tavors for a long time now

View attachment 102824

It's a massive clusterfuck of "buy it from where ever we are getting it". So, anything can happen. There was a major who had a VZ 58 and his whole company were equipped with INSAS and one had a PKMG. So, it's "Feeling proud Indian army, we don't lose ever in the battlefield". Pun intended.

 

[Yodha]

Oh, which unit did you serve under?

Do I write it here? Is it how it works?

 

[abingdonboy]

Of course we were talking off topic. But CV 22 taking off from an LHD with Marines? Screams NAVY all over it. It isn't SOCOM. Most SOAR assets operate from inland.

Do we have such tasks at our hand where we need to go overseas to save one our pilots? If we ever had a special aviation unit, we would have had the chance of them performing during Wg Cdr Abhinandans saga. They would have carried out a CSAR mission to prove their worth.

The second part I have argued previously.

garuds exist to do CSAR only on paper, then do not have the requisite support infrastructure to make it happen. All they have are a few MI-17V5s without even MAWS to transport them around

 

[abingdonboy]

Pretty sure the ghataks have had tavors for a long time now

View attachment 102824

Pretty sure the guys in this pic are PARA (SF) but yeah, it’s been known for a while that Ghataks (particularly in RR/at the LOC) have Tavors.

 

[Yodha]

The second part I have argued previously.

garuds exist to do CSAR only on paper, then do not have the requisite support infrastructure to make it happen. All they have are a few MI-17V5s without even MAWS to transport them around

Mi 17V5s won't even cut it for CSAR. For peace time SAR ops, they are good as any other helo. Garuda are the easy special force in my belief. They have the longest training period. They have good money at hand. A garud flight commander has the authority to buy things worth lakhs of not crores. They grow beards, they wear maroon and they get their photos clicked at airshows.

My statement might hurt or pinch anyone reading it but again I have one question " What special operations are Garuds good at?" Now some will try to give all the bullshit op responsibilities pasted on Wikipedia.

 

[abingdonboy]

If theatre commands ever see the daylight, each one should have its own special forces division and all of them should be collectively headed by INSOCOM. That should give them adequate air assets pulled from army, airforce and navy together. Each divison under dedicated theatre command should be assigned a region to study and work on it. Their operators should have extensive knowledge about their AOR. Their aviators should know the skies they are to fly. Their funding should be independent.

They’ll still be talking about theatre commands in 30 years.

The ‘air defence command’ that was meant to be ready by mid 2020 is still MIA, the 3 tri-service units (cyber/space/Special ops) they did actively form in recent years are actively being starved of funding and the services are still b!tching about the naming conventions of the proposed commands- the navy wants maritime, the IAF/IA wants peninsular

 

[abingdonboy]

Mi 17V5s won't even cut it for CSAR. For peace time SAR ops, they are good as any other helo. Garuda are the easy special force in my belief. They have the longest training period. They have good money at hand. A garud flight commander has the authority to buy things worth lakhs of not crores. They grow beards, they wear maroon and they get their photos clicked at airshows.

My statement might hurt or pinch anyone reading it but again I have one question " What special operations are Garuds good at?" Now some will try to give all the bullshit op responsibilities pasted on Wikipedia.

Can the Garuds procure their own helos? Can they reorganise the command structure above them?

Even if their mandate is known to them,their ability to achieve it is not.

at least Garuds train with IDF CSAR units and USAF JTACs- well within their mandates,MARCOs are for reasons unknown to me training with Royal Marines and Russian marines, the latter for conventional beach assaults.

 

[Yodha]

They’ll still be talking about theatre commands in 30 years.

The ‘air defence command’ that was meant to be ready by mid 2020 is still MIA, the 3 tri-service units (cyber/space/Special ops) they did actively form in recent years are actively being starved of funding and the services are still b!tching about the naming conventions of the proposed commands- the navy wants maritime, the IAF/IA wants peninsular

That's why need bureaucracy. And we have plenty of it and none seems to work.

AD command is still a long way to go thing. The airforce doesn't want to give its anti air assets because it argues that air is it's responsibility. An AD command will not only integrate anti air assets but it will ease the way airforce, army and navy aircraft operate right from filing flight plans. But it is under works. Not necessary that everything they work on will be published and informed to general public.

And the naming saga is actually a shameful act.

 

[Fire and groove]

Mi 17V5s won't even cut it for CSAR. For peace time SAR ops, they are good as any other helo. Garuda are the easy special force in my belief. They have the longest training period. They have good money at hand. A garud flight commander has the authority to buy things worth lakhs of not crores. They grow beards, they wear maroon and they get their photos clicked at airshows.

My statement might hurt or pinch anyone reading it but again I have one question " What special operations are Garuds good at?" Now some will try to give all the bullshit op responsibilities pasted on Wikipedia.

Actually, I'm pretty sure most of us are irked with the way the Garud are becoming instagram poster boys adn all that.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

 

[Yodha]

Can the Garuds procure their own helos? Can they reorganise the command structure above them?

Even if their mandate is known to them,their ability to achieve it is not.

at least Garuds train with IDF CSAR units and USAF JTACs- well within their mandates,MARCOs are for reasons unknown to me training with Royal Marines and Russian marines, the latter for conventional beach assaults.

Doubtful. But CSAR shouldn't be a role for a special force either. A seperate rescue force should be framed from airforce personnel if ever it has to be done. And I'm talking about CSAR during conventional war because we are never going to have to rescue someone from Afghanistan for which we have to send a Helo full of special operation forces.

 

[abingdonboy]

Doubtful. But CSAR shouldn't be a role for a special force either. A seperate rescue force should be framed from airforce personnel if ever it has to be done.

Take away CSAR and Garuds have very little (legitimate) reason to exist. Everything else they can/are tasked to do can be done by PARAs (probably better).

almost ever CSAR unit that exists is a recognised special forces unit within their respective militaries.

 

[Yodha]

Take away CSAR and Garuds have very little (legitimate) reason to exist. Everything else they can/are tasked to do can be done by PARAs (probably better).

almost ever CSAR unit that exists is a recognised special forces unit within their respective militaries.

Every CSAR unit might not be a special forces unit but every CSAR unit is a dedicated unit with its own functional structure and assets. Of course CSAR members don't have to kick doors and blast gates. I hope you get what I'm talking about.

 

[Knowitall]

Too me it seems like Guards primary role is base and assets protection.