Indian Special Forces

[kurup]

Thanks to some dumbfuck decision making i didnt joined the service despite getting call letter to report at Belgaum training centre. And i remained jobless for the next 14 years

 

[Col Habib zahir]

Gahtak troop

 

[Pig benis on sushy]

Thanks to some dumbfuck decision making i didnt joined the service despite getting call letter to report at Belgaum training centre. And i remained jobless for the next 14 years

Hmm 31yrs no job @ALBY out of context of the thread just curious

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

What will become of RR as porky sponsored insurgency is get eliminated completely ?

Turned into a Paramilitary Force like Assam Rifles or get absorbed back into the Regular Army.

 

[ALBY]

Hmm 31yrs no job @ALBY out of context of the thread just curious

Lol..Finally landed in a good profession now.

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

I heard that Lance Naik Mohannath Goswami got his balidaan at the age of 19.

Paratrooper Sanjog 9 para sf martyred at age of 20

 

[ALBY]

I will be damned but anyway..

Do we have a Tier 1 SF? NO

Are we doing Tier 1 SF ops?NO

What surgical strike was is a classic example of a simple raid.Ideally the Ghataks should have done this.

Para SF in Kashmir is present in large numbers.Large in the sense it doesnt need to put so many men there.

Para need to regroup,breathe,train and then only come back to action to plan,perfrom,analyse and correct.

But some units are permanently in action.Their growth is not going on.

All this is coz of easy medals now.

Why do Armoured, Artyetc guys want to work in RR is coz of better opportunities later and same goes for Para.

We needed Para in the late and early to mid 90s when the level of training of the infantry was not enough.

But now even Armoured officers are conducting good ops.Maybe we could handpick exceptional Infantry officers to train them in special ops and let them do the role of Para SF.

We need a Tier 1 unit to be active beyond our borders.Our equipment and training are not good.

Where we say we use Tier 1 SF are where we are using Tier 2 units because we have Tier 2 units only.

Siachen was won by Infantry and later by SFF and Para.

Blue star was again Tier 2.

Lanka was Tier 2.

Maldives was tier 2.

Kargil was tier 2.

Where we needed Tier 1 we were quiet example IC 814 hijacking,Dawood and Salahuddin roaming freely etc etc.

The situation now is if IC 814 happens again we will again be hopeless.

If mumbai happens again then Mumbai police will be sitting ducks, Force1 will get destroyed,NSG local team will hold or kill the terrorist which depends on their numbers.

Except the intelligence of this country which is thanks to IPS we are nowhere.

Army officers are too much into their British Army syllabus of 1937 hence whatever is happening now is out of syllabus.

Look at the state of Amphibious Assault Brigade.

Agree with the argument that Para is used extensively as a CT force rather than its original mandates unlike its western counterparts.
But if we reserve the SF for only such ops which we rarely undertook, then Para will get the same fate as Garud or Marco. In papers they are tigers but in real life they lack operational experience.
Even you had always said that Para is more elite than the other two because of the vast experience they got due to the exposure in Kashmir and NE.
9 Para is considered as the most because of the most number of ops done by them in valley than anyother unit.

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Ideally let SF become a regiment on their own and continue what they are doing - they will be a hybrid of something like the US Army Rangers and Green Berets. Let SF prosecute COIN and Direct Action + FID

Raise a Tier 1 Capability from scratch. Take your time. Look at how the "lesser" nations like the Philippines, Irish , canadians polish did it. And IMO take inspiration from the Koreans as well - their borders are as hot as ours . Evolve from there.

Same with MARCOS. Expand Marcos to something akin to the Royal Marine Cdos. From within them raise a SOF element.

Same with the Garuds.

IMO be nihilist about looking at our SOF units

I think we would have been better with the Navy raising a Amphibious brigade rather than the Army.

A brigade strength is 3000.

Marcos could have been expanded for that role and a new Special unit on the concept of SFF and SG could have been made as a Amphibious brigade.

The only issue could have been Tanks for which the Marcos could have been trained and i am sure they would have performed well as they are from technical background anyway.

Army has made it a bad soup now with units coming and going and enjoying Andaman and Nicobar thatsit.

I trust the Navy on better management of resources.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Agree with the argument that Para is used extensively as a CT force rather than its original mandates unlike its western counterparts.
But if we reserve the SF for only such ops which we rarely undertook, then Para will get the same fate as Garud or Marco. In papers they are tigers but in real life they lack operational experience.
Even you had always said that Para is more elite than the other two because of the vast experience they got due to the exposure in Kashmir and NE.
9 Para is considered as the most because of the most number of ops done by them in valley than anyother unit.

What i think is Kashmir and North east is good for experience when you talk about Special ops like crossing LOC,Taking out Targets in POK and ops like Randori Behak.

What is of no use is Para coming in built up areas where RR or CRPF has laid the cordon. I dont think its their job unless there is a hostage issue.

If i was running the show then i would place few companies of Para SF in J&k on rotation along with a small squad of NSG, Garuds and Marcos.

I wont deploy entire battalions there for decades at all.

I would emphasise of cross training and sending officers abroad for courses and bringing back the experience.

I would seek a greater role in UN most troubled areas under Blue Helmets.

I would have also reduced the size of the units.

 

[Aditya Roy]

View attachment 95928

10 Para I believe?

 

[Aditya Roy]

I think we would have been better with the Navy raising a Amphibious brigade rather than the Army.

A brigade strength is 3000.

Marcos could have been expanded for that role and a new Special unit on the concept of SFF and SG could have been made as a Amphibious brigade.

The only issue could have been Tanks for which the Marcos could have been trained and i am sure they would have performed well as they are from technical background anyway.

Army has made it a bad soup now with units coming and going and enjoying Andaman and Nicobar thatsit.

I trust the Navy on better management of resources.

We can also adopt the British model with some changes, i.e. Marine Commando and a Tier 1 unit on lines of SBS, along with a Marine Regiment

 

[Pig benis on sushy]

What i think is Kashmir and North east is good for experience when you talk about Special ops like crossing LOC,Taking out Targets in POK and ops like Randori Behak.

What is of no use is Para coming in built up areas where RR or CRPF has laid the cordon. I dont think its their job unless there is a hostage issue.

If i was running the show then i would place few companies of Para SF in J&k on rotation along with a small squad of NSG, Garuds and Marcos.

I wont deploy entire battalions there for decades at all.

I would emphasise of cross training and sending officers abroad for courses and bringing back the experience.

I would seek a greater role in UN most troubled areas under Blue Helmets.

I would have also reduced the size of the units.

Battalion exchange sf too or members few months ago when I was at MH a parasf battalion had come for few month maybe members exchange

 

[operatorgrumby]

View attachment 95759

Are these Surefire ALS Holsters only for show and COAS protection or the whole Para SF acquired it ???

 

[ALBY]

What i think is Kashmir and North east is good for experience when you talk about Special ops like crossing LOC,Taking out Targets in POK and ops like Randori Behak.

What is of no use is Para coming in built up areas where RR or CRPF has laid the cordon. I dont think its their job unless there is a hostage issue.

If i was running the show then i would place few companies of Para SF in J&k on rotation along with a small squad of NSG, Garuds and Marcos.

I wont deploy entire battalions there for decades at all.

I would emphasise of cross training and sending officers abroad for courses and bringing back the experience.

I would seek a greater role in UN most troubled areas under Blue Helmets.

I would have also reduced the size of the units.

Blue Helmets? Please elaborate the rationale. I am sure blue helmets ops arr nothing like those done by Nato in Kosovo, also forces rarely use lethal power and try to avoid conflict. If the mandate is not to search and destroy/hunt war criminals of Africa what is the good in sending SF to UN missions which could be handled by regulars. I am not forgetting op Khukri but such scenarios rarely occur. If i am wrong please clarify

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Blue Helmets? Please elaborate the rationale. I am sure blue helmets ops arr nothing like those done by Nato in Kosovo, also forces rarely use lethal power and try to avoid conflict. If the mandate is not to search and destroy/hunt war criminals of Africa what is the good in sending SF to UN missions which could be handled by regulars. I am not forgetting op Khukri but such scenarios rarely occur. If i am wrong please clarify

I think if we took the overall responsibility of a complete region or a small country by deploying a brigade size of SF it would give us more freedom of handling things.

Look how France goes about it.

Politically we are into jumlebazi.

I think it is high time we interfered in Myanamar and set things right there with respect to our insurgency, Myanamar struggle for freedom, taking our island and also setting and controlling the new govt.

But our netas are atleast a 100 years away from taking actions that secure our future.

These are the moves that would check mate china.

 

[FalconSlayers]

First PRODefenceJammu and now NSG? BJP has purchased them too?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

I think we would have been better with the Navy raising a Amphibious brigade rather than the Army.

A brigade strength is 3000.

Marcos could have been expanded for that role and a new Special unit on the concept of SFF and SG could have been made as a Amphibious brigade.

The only issue could have been Tanks for which the Marcos could have been trained and i am sure they would have performed well as they are from technical background anyway.

Army has made it a bad soup now with units coming and going and enjoying Andaman and Nicobar thatsit.

I trust the Navy on better management of resources.

This amphibious force could use some of the BMP 2s army plans to get rid off in the future since it is an amphibious vehicle and has some scope for upgradation, and might be suitable for beach landings. All they'd need to do is upgrade the FCS to modern Thermal FCS's and possibly add a bit of armour where really required. It would be prudent if they upgraded the ATGMs and add RCWS or any other add ons they require and possibly an engine upgrade too. This could atleast be somewhat of a low cost low risk starting base till they get their show in order.
DRDO/Tata WhAP too could possibly used as it too is amphibious,just like the US marines are planning on adopting the 8x8 BAE version of the Iveco Super AV.
Comments and corrections are welcome!!

 

[tomthounaojam]

I think it is high time we interfered in Myanamar and set things right there with respect to our insurgency, Myanamar struggle for freedom, taking our island and also setting and controlling the new govt.
These are the moves that would check mate china.

"Myanmar" Firstly thank you, many folks just called any armed group a terrorist and not insurgency or rebels.
The insurgency in the NE is very complex and in the last 10 years it has gone down a lot, but it is there. Just my 50 paisa views.
1) The insurgency here mostly based on their ethnic background and their agenda can differ a lot from fighting for better autonomy to sovereignty.
2) Most of the large groups are in talks with the center or SOO(Suspension of operation) and they are in their designated camps hence violence has come down.
3) Most strike which is quite mild can be said like mafia-style attack are mostly done by splinter group who want their piece of the pie and or just 10-15 members small group.
4) Gun here is quite different from JK, AK may be common but with Myanmar and Thailand, there are quite sophisticated small arms. Also, geography and Topography are a gold mine for SF operative, from Hot humid to muddy and inaccessible area, truly a big playground for "Jungle warfare" and low-intensity warfare.
5) Most armed group has some nexus with smuggler and drug smuggler, it is like India own Narcos, hence they seldom attack military or police as they don't want action from them and disrupt their cash flow.
6) Most NE state doesn't have very active insurgency, but it there and can be problematic, I feel army should be replaced by CAPF as Army is meant for fighting and CAPF for maintaining peace.
7) Attack on Myanmar to make the record straight will have serious problem in long run, Myanmar is a very cunning country who know it is being coyed by Indian and Chinese and will keep these proxies active in some way to have some negotiation power.
8) Once AFPSA is removed from the region, there are high chances people who favor insurgency will go down as people see AFPSA as suppression, I believe it should stay but not in the whole state, but in remote area line border area like no man land, so the army can have some jurisdiction to engage intruder without legal problems.
9) Most armed group will remain but the government will keep in such a way that the status quo is maintained and peace prevail, means some under the table deals.
10) One of the root causes of the problem in NE is the acceptance of mongoloid feature people as compared to the rest of India Indian. There is always an apprehension that their culture and diversity might vanish if not protected.
Just my views being a person from the NE.

 

[ALBY]

"Myanmar" Firstly thank you, many folks just called any armed group a terrorist and not insurgency or rebels.
The insurgency in the NE is very complex and in the last 10 years it has gone down a lot, but it is there. Just my 50 paisa views.
1) The insurgency here mostly based on their ethnic background and their agenda can differ a lot from fighting for better autonomy to sovereignty.
2) Most of the large groups are in talks with the center or SOO(Suspension of operation) and they are in their designated camps hence violence has come down.
3) Most strike which is quite mild can be said like mafia-style attack are mostly done by splinter group who want their piece of the pie and or just 10-15 members small group.
4) Gun here is quite different from JK, AK may be common but with Myanmar and Thailand, there are quite sophisticated small arms. Also, geography and Topography are a gold mine for SF operative, from Hot humid to muddy and inaccessible area, truly a big playground for "Jungle warfare" and low-intensity warfare.
5) Most armed group has some nexus with smuggler and drug smuggler, it is like India own Narcos, hence they seldom attack military or police as they don't want action from them and disrupt their cash flow.
6) Most NE state doesn't have very active insurgency, but it there and can be problematic, I feel army should be replaced by CAPF as Army is meant for fighting and CAPF for maintaining peace.
7) Attack on Myanmar to make the record straight will have serious problem in long run, Myanmar is a very cunning country who know it is being coyed by Indian and Chinese and will keep these proxies active in some way to have some negotiation power.
8) Once AFPSA is removed from the region, there are high chances people who favor insurgency will go down as people see AFPSA as suppression, I believe it should stay but not in the whole state, but in remote area line border area like no man land, so the army can have some jurisdiction to engage intruder without legal problems.
9) Most armed group will remain but the government will keep in such a way that the status quo is maintained and peace prevail, means some under the table deals.
10) One of the root causes of the problem in NE is the acceptance of mongoloid feature people as compared to the rest of India Indian. There is always an apprehension that their culture and diversity might vanish if not protected.
Just my views being a person from the NE.

Very well said.