Indian Special Forces

[Tactical Doge]

@17:00 French GIGN in live action, very similar to what we see in NSG drills
I wonder if NSG has used the Ford 550 MARS vehicle in live

 

[rkhanna]

Ok.. You wil get option to choose which unit for probation ryt?

AKAIK different units post their vacancies up and then you volunteered for selection there. Even Paras can volunteer for SF. Maybe @AVINASH4061 can clarify

 

[Marliii]

Unless you build the tier 1 force from within Para SF.

Seperating para sf from the Para regiment and converting them into a tier 1 is good option and army should set up its own special forces command

 

[rkhanna]

Unless you build the tier 1 force from within Para SF.

Yes ofcourse but they have to go through a unified selection like there is for Delta or DevGru Green Team.

But keep volunteering open to the wider military with caveats.

If from infantry have to be Ghatak and gone through Belgaum and CIJWS etc top of the class and with minimum 5 years experience in infantry/Paras and minimum 2 years in SF

And if from AF/Navy have to have atleast 3 years with Garud / Marcos before they can try out with same caveats as CIJW/Haws etc

 

[rkhanna]

Seperating para sf from the Para regiment and converting them into a tier 1 is good option and army should set up its own special forces command

Don't like conversions same bad habits cross over.

Create a new unit with new ethos ans mission statement let SF operators try out

 

[Tactical Doge]

@17:00 French GIGN in live action, very similar to what we see in NSG drills
I wonder if NSG has used the Ford 550 MARS vehicle in live

Also a lesson for media houses
Barkha Dutt and the ilk, the French police had the problem of live TV feed from the supermarket going to the handlers, the two brothers who attacked the Charlie hebdo HQ was holed up in a paper mill
But the police blacked out the live broadcast at the supermarket before they proceeded with the ops
The supermarket intervention was delayed 15-20 minutes due to this, and within that timeframe 4 hostages lost their lives

 

[rkhanna]

Also a lesson for media houses

Why blame media houses when the Civilian leadership has zero SOPs in place still for dealing with urban crises

 

[ALBY]

AKAIK different units post their vacancies up and then you volunteered for selection there. Even Paras can volunteer for SF. Maybe @AVINASH4061 can clarify

Yes.. Regular Para guys can volunteer but not many opt due to unit allegience

 

[rkhanna]

Yes.. Regular Para guys can volunteer but not many opt due to unit allegience

True but I have known a few who have crossed over. And some who went from SF to para as their bodies started to take rhe brunt of the tempo .

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Yes ofcourse but they have to go through a unified selection like there is for Delta or DevGru Green Team.

But keep volunteering open to the wider military with caveats.

If from infantry have to be Ghatak and gone through Belgaum and CIJWS etc top of the class and with minimum 5 years experience in infantry/Paras and minimum 2 years in SF

And if from AF/Navy have to have atleast 3 years with Garud / Marcos before they can try out with same caveats as CIJW/Haws etc

Do they draw their training staff from Para sf, Marcos, Garuds only(habits could pass on again) , or do we start by inviting foreign experts and then they train the trainers who volunteer or any other methods for such a hypothetical situation?

 

[ALBY]

Yes ofcourse but they have to go through a unified selection like there is for Delta or DevGru Green Team.

But keep volunteering open to the wider military with caveats.

If from infantry have to be Ghatak and gone through Belgaum and CIJWS etc top of the class and with minimum 5 years experience in infantry/Paras and minimum 2 years in SF

And if from AF/Navy have to have atleast 3 years with Garud / Marcos before they can try out with same caveats as CIJW/Haws etc

Yes.. Experience matters a lot in Tier-1.Just take tge case of Delta. Almost all are in 30s.

 

[rkhanna]

Do they draw their training staff from Para sf, Marcos, Garuds only(habits could pass on again) , or do we start by inviting foreign experts and then they train the trainers who volunteer or any other methods?

First start by building out your instructor cadre. Send them all over the world and Get the best instructors in India ( you will be suprised that some of the best teachers in india are actually not SF).

Then go from there.

 

[rkhanna]

Yes.. Experience matters a lot in Tier-1.Just take tge case of Delta. Almost all are in 30s.

Exactly my point. In the 90s and ealey 2000s avg SF age was 26-27. Now it's 21-22.

 

[Tactical Doge]

Why blame media houses when the Civilian leadership has zero SOPs in place still for dealing with urban crises

I was comparing it with mumbai attacks
Are you saying people who give live intelligence to handlers are not accountable?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

First start by building out your instructor cadre. Send them all over the world and Get the best instructors in India ( you will be suprised that some of the best teachers in india are actually not SF).

Then go from there.

Who are the best teachers then? Could you elaborate? Won’t SF methods be different from regular infantry or others branches methods?

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Exactly my point. In the 90s and ealey 2000s avg SF age was 26-27. Now it's 21-22.

Since we have such a relatively high number of young Para SF jawans, wouldn’t it be prudent to try imparting them with some technical education that could benefit them during ops at the same time balance them with their training and keep their weapon skills n all up to date, until they reach an ideal state of training and education. Usually in other countries Sf members tend to have higher education levels that regulars right? This could help solve some problems like backwardness and lack of technical knowledge?

 

[Marliii]

 

[Maitreya Shyam]

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

No point in restructuring SF units or raising new units when the existing units are not being properly armed and used in their actual mandate.

The plan of arming the Para SFs with SCAR/KH-416s have been lying in limbo with the MOD for many years. Even basic things like BPJ, Helmets, SDRs, take years to implement.

 

[FalconSlayers]

I will be damned but anyway..

Do we have a Tier 1 SF? NO

Are we doing Tier 1 SF ops?NO

What surgical strike was is a classic example of a simple raid.Ideally the Ghataks should have done this.

Para SF in Kashmir is present in large numbers.Large in the sense it doesnt need to put so many men there.

Para need to regroup,breathe,train and then only come back to action to plan,perfrom,analyse and correct.

But some units are permanently in action.Their growth is not going on.

All this is coz of easy medals now.

Why do Armoured, Artyetc guys want to work in RR is coz of better opportunities later and same goes for Para.

We needed Para in the late and early to mid 90s when the level of training of the infantry was not enough.

But now even Armoured officers are conducting good ops.Maybe we could handpick exceptional Infantry officers to train them in special ops and let them do the role of Para SF.

We need a Tier 1 unit to be active beyond our borders.Our equipment and training are not good.

Where we say we use Tier 1 SF are where we are using Tier 2 units because we have Tier 2 units only.

Siachen was won by Infantry and later by SFF and Para.

Blue star was again Tier 2.

Lanka was Tier 2.

Maldives was tier 2.

Kargil was tier 2.

Where we needed Tier 1 we were quiet example IC 814 hijacking,Dawood and Salahuddin roaming freely etc etc.

The situation now is if IC 814 happens again we will again be hopeless.

If mumbai happens again then Mumbai police will be sitting ducks, Force1 will get destroyed,NSG local team will hold or kill the terrorist which depends on their numbers.

Except the intelligence of this country which is thanks to IPS we are nowhere.

Army officers are too much into their British Army syllabus of 1937 hence whatever is happening now is out of syllabus.

Look at the state of Amphibious Assault Brigade.

Did the Para did the Strike? No
Dis the Ghataks did the strikes? Yes (under 4 Para leadership).