Indian Special Forces

Scramjet

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These are US Army Diver's badges, the Army Combat Diver Qualification Course and Army Combat Diving Supervisors Course are taught by Company C, 2nd Battalion, 1st Special Warfare Training Group at the Special Forces Underwater Operations School.

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Scramjet

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Just watched an interview of an ex para (airborne) officer (high ranking), he said that SF and Airborne aren't different, is this mindset prevalent in SF bns too?
 

Hariharan_kalarikkal

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Just watched an interview of an ex para (airborne) officer (high ranking), he said that SF and Airborne aren't different, is this mindset prevalent in SF bns too?
Is that the Chanakya dialogues interview of Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia???
Yes I watched it too, he also says the seperation of airborne and SF is not necessary, Parachute regiment can stay as it is
Also have lot of scope of working together
 

Rahul19

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What is the standard weapons composition of a SF squad and a regular infantry platoon?
 

ALBY

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Just watched an interview of an ex para (airborne) officer (high ranking), he said that SF and Airborne aren't different, is this mindset prevalent in SF bns too?
Only airborne says that. SF never wanted to get tagged along side airborne. Gen Katotch had expressed the views of SF in general towards getting tagged along Para Airborne and how officers from airborne always pitched for equal status as that of SF.
 

rkhanna

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Only airborne says that. SF never wanted to get tagged along side airborne. Gen Katotch had expressed the views of SF in general towards getting tagged along Para Airborne and how officers from airborne always pitched for equal status as that of SF.
Today the regular Para Battalions draw the same "hazard" pay as SF. SF unit citiations add to the medals on Para CO chests. If the SF leave all that goes away.
 

rkhanna

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Just watched an interview of an ex para (airborne) officer (high ranking), he said that SF and Airborne aren't different, is this mindset prevalent in SF bns too?
Few pages back @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has posted link from ghe BR SF thread from 2013/2014. Go to page 75 or so and see the interviews from various Para offsars. Same bs. It's the conventional officer cadres hold over the SF.

Its become worse. In the Army a sense that a 'real war' will never come has taken hold and they are happy with COIN as its low intensity and still wins them the medals and promotions.
 

Marliii

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Is their any solution to get out of this paraSF and airborne mess?
 

ALBY

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Today the regular Para Battalions draw the same "hazard" pay as SF. SF unit citiations add to the medals on Para CO chests. If the SF leave all that goes away.
Yes yes.. But let me ask something. Its said every year candidates are called for Para selection based on the vaccancies in battallions and there is no distinguision between SF and Airborne. So if there is vaccancy in airborne guys are send for airborne only and there is no option for them to choose SF and vice versa.. Thats what i had grasped from all those interviews of veterans.So sometimes guys who could pass the SF selection gets to satisfied with Airborne only ryt based kn availability of vaccancies or units alloted for probation..
Or the guys who gets selected for Airborne have further option for standing SF trials aftet clearig airborne
Please dk clarity..
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Few pages back @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR has posted link from ghe BR SF thread from 2013/2014. Go to page 75 or so and see the interviews from various Para offsars. Same bs. It's the conventional officer cadres hold over the SF.

Its become worse. In the Army a sense that a 'real war' will never come has taken hold and they are happy with COIN as its low intensity and still wins them the medals and promotions.
I will be damned but anyway..

Do we have a Tier 1 SF? NO

Are we doing Tier 1 SF ops?NO

What surgical strike was is a classic example of a simple raid.Ideally the Ghataks should have done this.

Para SF in Kashmir is present in large numbers.Large in the sense it doesnt need to put so many men there.

Para need to regroup,breathe,train and then only come back to action to plan,perfrom,analyse and correct.

But some units are permanently in action.Their growth is not going on.

All this is coz of easy medals now.

Why do Armoured, Artyetc guys want to work in RR is coz of better opportunities later and same goes for Para.

We needed Para in the late and early to mid 90s when the level of training of the infantry was not enough.

But now even Armoured officers are conducting good ops.Maybe we could handpick exceptional Infantry officers to train them in special ops and let them do the role of Para SF.

We need a Tier 1 unit to be active beyond our borders.Our equipment and training are not good.

Where we say we use Tier 1 SF are where we are using Tier 2 units because we have Tier 2 units only.

Siachen was won by Infantry and later by SFF and Para.

Blue star was again Tier 2.

Lanka was Tier 2.

Maldives was tier 2.

Kargil was tier 2.

Where we needed Tier 1 we were quiet example IC 814 hijacking,Dawood and Salahuddin roaming freely etc etc.

The situation now is if IC 814 happens again we will again be hopeless.

If mumbai happens again then Mumbai police will be sitting ducks, Force1 will get destroyed,NSG local team will hold or kill the terrorist which depends on their numbers.

Except the intelligence of this country which is thanks to IPS we are nowhere.

Army officers are too much into their British Army syllabus of 1937 hence whatever is happening now is out of syllabus.

Look at the state of Amphibious Assault Brigade.
 

rkhanna

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I will be damned but anyway..

Do we have a Tier 1 SF? NO

Are we doing Tier 1 SF ops?NO

What surgical strike was is a classic example of a simple raid.Ideally the Ghataks should have done this.

Para SF in Kashmir is present in large numbers.Large in the sense it doesnt need to put so many men there.

Para need to regroup,breathe,train and then only come back to action to plan,perfrom,analyse and correct.

But some units are permanently in action.Their growth is not going on.

All this is coz of easy medals now.

Why do Armoured, Artyetc guys want to work in RR is coz of better opportunities later and same goes for Para.

We needed Para in the late and early to mid 90s when the level of training of the infantry was not enough.

But now even Armoured officers are conducting good ops.Maybe we could handpick exceptional Infantry officers to train them in special ops and let them do the role of Para SF.

We need a Tier 1 unit to be active beyond our borders.Our equipment and training are not good.

Where we say we use Tier 1 SF are where we are using Tier 2 units because we have Tier 2 units only.

Siachen was won by Infantry and later by SFF and Para.

Blue star was again Tier 2.

Lanka was Tier 2.

Maldives was tier 2.

Kargil was tier 2.

Where we needed Tier 1 we were quiet example IC 814 hijacking,Dawood and Salahuddin roaming freely etc etc.

The situation now is if IC 814 happens again we will again be hopeless.

If mumbai happens again then Mumbai police will be sitting ducks, Force1 will get destroyed,NSG local team will hold or kill the terrorist which depends on their numbers.

Except the intelligence of this country which is thanks to IPS we are nowhere.

Army officers are too much into their British Army syllabus of 1937 hence whatever is happening now is out of syllabus.

Look at the state of Amphibious Assault Brigade.
Ideally let SF become a regiment on their own and continue what they are doing - they will be a hybrid of something like the US Army Rangers and Green Berets. Let SF prosecute COIN and Direct Action + FID

Raise a Tier 1 Capability from scratch. Take your time. Look at how the "lesser" nations like the Philippines, Irish , canadians polish did it. And IMO take inspiration from the Koreans as well - their borders are as hot as ours . Evolve from there.

Same with MARCOS. Expand Marcos to something akin to the Royal Marine Cdos. From within them raise a SOF element.

Same with the Garuds.

IMO be nihilist about looking at our SOF units
 

rkhanna

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Yes yes.. But let me ask something. Its said every year candidates are called for Para selection based on the vaccancies in battallions and there is no distinguision between SF and Airborne. So if there is vaccancy in airborne guys are send for airborne only and there is no option for them to choose SF and vice versa.. Thats what i had grasped from all those interviews of veterans.So sometimes guys who could pass the SF selection gets to satisfied with Airborne only ryt based kn availability of vaccancies or units alloted for probation..
Or the guys who gets selected for Airborne have further option for standing SF trials aftet clearig airborne
Please dk clarity..
AFAIK selection and probation is done by respectwive battalions no unified command as such. If a soldier who volunteers and gets vanilla para he can withdraw and try again for a SF vacancy.

Never heard of someone who wanted to be SF and got stuck wjtb the Paras
 

ALBY

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AFAIK selection and probation is done by respectwive battalions no unified command as such. If a soldier who volunteers and gets vanilla para he can withdraw and try again for a SF vacancy.

Never heard of someone who wanted to be SF and got stuck wjtb the Paras
Ok.. You wil get option to choose which unit for probation ryt?
 

Marliii

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Ideally let SF become a regiment on their own and continue what they are doing - they will be a hybrid of something like the US Army Rangers and Green Berets. Let SF prosecute COIN and Direct Action + FID

Raise a Tier 1 Capability from scratch. Take your time. Look at how the "lesser" nations like the Philippines, Irish , canadians polish did it. And IMO take inspiration from the Koreans as well - their borders are as hot as ours . Evolve from there.

Same with MARCOS. Expand Marcos to something akin to the Royal Marine Cdos. From within them raise a SOF element.

Same with the Garuds.

IMO be nihilist about looking at our SOF units
Making tier 1 force from scratch is gonna get a lot of opposition from Para sf as they will see it as an competition and encroachment on their mandate
 

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