Indian Special Forces

[kaboom]

Yea too much work just for few 100 of rifles no company is gonna do it if all sf we in on it then maybe but for only marcos who are what 800 to 1 at most Naa

Yeah , it would be better if all the SFs are onboard on it .
Fuck it , just sell it to vbss , equip the whole navy with it or sell it to us civ market idk .
I just want to see them with some elite stuff so that i can say fuck HK.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Yeah , it would be better if all the SFs are onboard on it .
Fuck it , just sell it to vbss , equip the whole navy with it or sell it to us civ market idk .
I just want to see them with some elite stuff so that i can say fuck HK.

Arad is elite if it makes it I too would have liked to see carcall but don't think they are even trying so I would rather be satisfied with arad rn. I would just count it as good move maybe it will encourage others to move to ar systems too.I mean I am sure in afsod and other excercise others to feel jealous of marcos kits.

 

[kaboom]

we are DOWNSIZING .....modernization lessgo

 

[rkhanna]

Yea too much work just for few 100 of rifles no company is gonna do it if all sf we in on it then maybe but for only marcos who are what 800 to 1 at most Naa

Not to mention we dont have a culture of Operator lead R&D for MARCOS to even know if they have their own specification. Unit Armourers arnt even allowed to chaneg trigger pressure from Stock Spec

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Not to mention we dont have a culture of Operator lead R&D for MARCOS to even know if they have their own specification. Unit Armourers arnt even allowed to chaneg trigger pressure from Stock Spec

Yepp there is that with time marcos will get there too might see some tier 1 units get noveske rifles in 10 or so years marcos are evolving fast I guess having a particular office and guys who focus on mordernasation helps maybe.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Inderjeet Singh]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Col spent around 12-13 Lacs on his loadout

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Yepp there is that with time marcos will get there too might see some tier 1 units get noveske rifles in 10 or so years marcos are evolving fast I guess having a particular office and guys who focus on mordernasation helps maybe.

At their current pace, I say less. We'll likely see a very gucci rifle setup being issued within the next 2 years.

 

[Zoid Raptor]

Caracal is supposedly better by almost all parameters and specifically designed to take the beating of the Desert

On what grounds is CAR-816 exactly better? Caracal is nothing but an Arab firm who hired western designers Robert Hirt and Chris Sirois (from HK & Sig respectively) to design their rifles. Apart from UAE and Ethiopia, no other country or unit uses it. I've never seen a CAR rifle here in the US nor anyone talk about it. Just like any other foreign maal, IA must've hardly tested it but decided to procure in favor of kickbacks

This is no different to SSS originally fielding a BR/DMR variant chambered in 7.62 NATO with LMT for one of IA's tender but due to ITAR issues, LMT backed off resulting in SSS to pursue their own design which is very likely developed/designed by LMT's designers

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

On what grounds is CAR-816 exactly better? Caracal is nothing but an Arab firm who hired western designers Robert Hirt and Chris Sirois (from HK & Sig respectively) to design their rifles. Apart from UAE and Ethiopia, no other country or unit uses it. I've never seen a CAR rifle here in the US nor anyone talk about it. Just like any other foreign maal, IA must've hardly tested it but decided to procure in favor of kickbacks

This is no different to SSS originally fielding a BR/DMR variant chambered in 7.62 NATO with LMT for one of IA's tender but due to ITAR issues, LMT backed off resulting in SSS to pursue their own design which is very likely developed/designed by LMT's designers

Dosent car has same designer as hk supposedly? I just heard there design is very good no way to actually know for me ofc

 

[Zoid Raptor]

Dosent car has same designer as hk supposedly? I just heard there design is very good no way to actually know for me ofc

I mentioned the same in my post. It was Robert Hirt who was one of the lead designers for HK416 with several patents from both HK & Sig, later collaborated with Chris Sirois of Sig to co-design the MPX and MCX. Both were contracted to design the Car-816 by Caracal

But I hardly see any leading firearms youtubers review it. There are a couple of local gun stores/ranges I frequent and try not to miss any gun shows in my area and never did I come across a CAR rifle. Just like how the Tavors were shoved to Indian SOF community, kickbacks must've played a huge role in the initial selection of CAR

MARCOS imo should try out the SIG SPEAR. I heard great reviews and firearm enthusiasts are going gung-ho about it. If additional 716s' are procured by IA, they might as well setup local production and replace Tavors with Spears for SOF

 

[rkhanna]

On what grounds is CAR-816 exactly better? Caracal is nothing but an Arab firm who hired western designers Robert Hirt and Chris Sirois (from HK & Sig respectively) to design their rifles. Apart from UAE and Ethiopia, no other country or unit uses it. I've never seen a CAR rifle here in the US nor anyone talk about it. Just like any other foreign maal, IA must've hardly tested it but decided to procure in favor of kickbacks

This is no different to SSS originally fielding a BR/DMR variant chambered in 7.62 NATO with LMT for one of IA's tender but due to ITAR issues, LMT backed off resulting in SSS to pursue their own design which is very likely developed/designed by LMT's designers

Suggest Spending sometime researching who those 2 gents are. What the UAE did when they hired them and what rifle they actually produced in the end. (other than reading Wikipedia)

Alternately - Engage some reputable Small Arms experts on the internet (no not american Civiies) and talk to them.

There is no Civilian varient for the us to "Talk about it" not is it marketed in the US - (since you think thats the benchmark) - The US military has no need to pursue it. Their High end Small Arm Companies sit directly with their users and build weapons from the ground up.

 

[rkhanna]

Both were contracted to design the Car-816 by Caracal

You know that they just were not "Hired" right. They run the place. they designed and built the factory from the ground up using the same IP from HK and SIG (as it was theirs)

They themselves have stated that the end product is an improvement of the SIG/HKs.
On the Firearms Blog and the AR15.com Chris B of the SAS has also stated that the 816 is a further improvement on the 516 and the 416

Between the 416 and 516 the 416 is more reliable (rugged because of proprietary parts) and battleproven

Ofcourse the proof will always be in the putting. Everything I have researched on the 816 says the 816 should be equal if not better to the 416 in capability and considering the Price Differenctial and Politics it is the better option

 

[Zoid Raptor]

Alternately - Engage some reputable Small Arms experts on the internet (no not american Civiies) and talk to them.

There is no Civilian varient for the us to "Talk about it" not is it marketed in the US - (since you think thats the benchmark)

Caracal does have it's US arm and have facilities in Idaho and New Hampshire with their product offerings listed on several firearm platforms. They're hard to find but not impossible to procure

https://caracalusa.com/

https://www.guns.com/firearms/rifle...to-semi-auto-30-rounds-16-barrel-new?p=815149

They themselves have stated that the end product is an improvement of the SIG/HKs.
On the Firearms Blog and the AR15.com Chris B of the SAS has also stated that the 816 is a further improvement on the 516 and the 416

Between the 416 and 516 the 416 is more reliable (rugged because of proprietary parts) and battleproven

Ofcourse the proof will always be in the putting. Everything I have researched on the 816 says the 816 should be equal if not better to the 416 in capability and considering the Price Differenctial and Politics it is the better option

While I haven't done a deep dive on Caracal, I've previously come across some of the info you posted like from this page, this & this and wiki is the last thing i'd refer to but I'd personally take the word of someone I hear in person from my time at the range, some of whom are vets. It's obvious the designers would say 816 is a better product that 516 or 416 since that's their latest design and from what I've seen, there's not really enough info be it from a civilian or military standpoint to claim 816's superiority. Also, Chris isn't with Caracal as of 2022 while it's unclear if Robert is still the COO or not

We clearly know IA doesn't do jack shiite from a testing standpoint when it comes to foreign maal. I agree it might be a better option from a political viewpoint but all we end up with is screwdrivergiri and I'd rather have SSS hire some LMT guys to improve on the P72 platform

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Caracal does have it's US arm and have facilities in Idaho and New Hampshire with their product offerings listed on several firearm platforms. They're hard to find but not impossible to procure

https://caracalusa.com/

https://www.guns.com/firearms/rifle...to-semi-auto-30-rounds-16-barrel-new?p=815149


While I haven't done a deep dive on Caracal, I've previously come across some of the info you posted like from this page, this & this and wiki is the last thing i'd refer to but I'd personally take the word of someone I hear in person from my time at the range, some of whom are vets. It's obvious the designers would say 816 is a better product that 516 or 416 since that's their latest design and from what I've seen, there's not really enough info be it from a civilian or military standpoint to claim 816's superiority. Also, Chris isn't with Caracal as of 2022 while it's unclear if Robert is still the COO or not

We clearly know IA doesn't do jack shiite from a testing standpoint when it comes to foreign maal. I agree it might be a better option from a political viewpoint but all we end up with is screwdrivergiri and I'd rather have SSS hire some LMT guys to improve on the P72 platform

M-72 u mean? They Already working with ex para guys to test and improve the Rifle

 

[rkhanna]

We clearly know IA doesn't do jack shiite from a testing standpoint when it comes to foreign maal.

Hmm actually i would say for the most part quiet the contrary. (though there are definetly instances in the recent past where you are correct)

Example: The First Tavor Batch was given to SFF units who ran it up and down the mountains for a few years. A long list of defects were given to the Israelis to fix before the final order was placed for the Paras.

do keep in mind most (if not all) foriegn maal will fail in India . no matter who makes them. Weapon systems designed for the plains and seas of europe dont pass muster in the Subcontinent. Every single thing including T-90s to SSKs to small arms needs to be improved once they come into service. That is a fact of Subcontinental operating conditions.

 

[kaboom]

Look what i found ..

 

[mupper2]

Tangential to InSOF but I know you lads like this stuff. A couple of our favourite tactical trainers including Tu Lam and Dom Raso should probably be expecting visits from the FBI soonish..
whoops

The Chinese Soldier Trained By Americans to Kill Americans

A Report on Chinese Infiltration of the American Tactical Community

www.vermilionchina.com

 

[kaboom]

Tangential to InSOF but I know you lads like this stuff. A couple of our favourite tactical trainers including Tu Lam and Dom Raso should probably be expecting visits from the FBI soonish..
whoops

The Chinese Soldier Trained By Americans to Kill Americans

A Report on Chinese Infiltration of the American Tactical Community

www.vermilionchina.com

Funny how they openly say china is the enemy on podcasts but here they are in bed with them .

 

[mupper2]

Funny how they openly say china is the enemy on podcasts but here they are in bed with them .

Money talks and bullshit walks, Tu Lam isn't living in a couple a million dollar house in Colorado on a SgtMaj pension...