Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

MARCOS INDRA 2017

Nothings scarier than a beach assault with a Kalashnikov or a PKM..Wait what...

 

[Edyk12]

 

[rkhanna]

ARC has been stood down or in the process of being stood down. Assets to be / have been transfered to the NTRO.

Official secrets act won't disclose current status.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

yeh kaun hein?

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

MARCOS INDRA 2017

Does this bulletproof vest provide all direction protection or only front and back?

 

[rkhanna]

yeh kaun hein?

Bangla soldier ? m16A2 ?

 

[Gessler]

Does this bulletproof vest provide all direction protection or only front and back?

The plates are only in front & back on this one.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

 

[abingdonboy]

Furthermore, while its true that SPG is probably the most well-equipped tactical unit in India, they are nowhere even close to the global standard. Something we should note.

For example, I've never seen the SPG CAT employ ballistic helmets in any situation whatsoever. One can make the case for Close-Protection division of SPG (the guys in suits/safaris) to go without any armour in order to keep themselves as light & quick as possible as their role is to pretty much jump on & shield the protectee as quickly as possible and armour could hinder their speed.

But CAT's role is different, they do wear vests with heavy ballistic plate inserts so there's no reason why they shouldn't wear helmets as well. Like the Secret Service's CAT members very often do -

View attachment 58089

Not wearing helmets also presents other hindrances. Such as not being able to quickly deploy night vision equipment in the event of power loss indoors or in outdoors at night. While SPG CAT is often seen carrying large pouches which we assume could be NVGs (could also be breathing apparatus), they simply cannot be deployed as rapidly as an NVG readily mounted on a helmet.

Furthermore, they still resort to using the FN F2000 which no self-respecting SOF in the world uses in any operational role. It's just a fancy-looking gun is all and is several notches lower in terms of raw functionality compared to a well-made AR-15 from any good company. It has to go with a one-size-fits-all methodology due to lack of adjustable stock length and I've no idea why a top-notch Special unit has to put up with such drawbacks. Plus its nowhere as customizable and functional as aforementioned AR-15s.

And before anyone jumps to it - no, the SCAR-Hs used by SPG have not replaced the F2000s, they've just supplemented them.

And @AZTEC, even if we assume SG has all the kind of budget SPG gets, we still cannot forget that SPG CAT itself doesn't have comm headsets! They use in-ear headphones connected to radio - something which 'discreet' bodyguards (like SPG's safari/suit-wearing close-protection guys) ought to be using.

An overt tactical team like CAT which is carrying around assault rifles with full body armour has no reason to just be using such in-ear devices. They should be using comm headsets just like any military SOF team.

So yeah, SPG itself has long way to go before they can be considered on par with comparable global units in terms of equipment. So its quite a step-off to assume too much of SG's kit.

Yeah maybe but I have a different take, it’s not a lack of budget or resources but a philosophy difference.

For whatever reason SPG’s CAT/SIU has never worn helmets- not once (publicly anyway). It doesn’t make much sense to me, the role of these guys is to be the ‘party crashers’ that act as the blocking force and allow the protectee to be evacuated by the CPT hence they need to have the most survivability that they can muster and a helmet just makes obvious sense, again the point about NVGs is totally valid also.

it’s a relative new unit but considering the resoirces they receive there’s no excuse for this glaring oversight really and I hope they can see sense soon


+ the radios that SPG use are top of the line and the earpieces use bone conduction for R/T but I agree that for a unit like this over the ear ear pro is the way to go and naturally if they adopt helmets this would follow.

++ the weapon choice doesn’t bother me much, this is what they train with and as they’ve been bitten by the ‘FN fairy’ makes sense, wouldn’t be terrible to see all those -2000s replaced by SCAR-L/H though

@abingdonboy

Another reason why Special ops command i dont have much hope from.

We used a specialised battalion to do the job of a infantry battalion and everyone looks pretty happy about it.

The psyche of a General hasnt changed post Kargil it seems.

like I said, get SFs out of the hands of these know nothing generals although I think in this context it was quite legitimate to use a SFF battalion for this strategic mission, apparently they were dispatched a few weeks back specifically for this kind of mission and are operating directly under army control

In this context delivering a slap to these CCP thugs using Tibetans is particularly sweet.

SFF after all are almost entirely designed to create mischief to the chinks, SG is an entirely separate story

ARC has been stood down or in the process of being stood down. Assets to be / have been transfered to the NTRO.

Official secrets act won't disclose current status.

Not quite accurate. ARC were in the process of transferring their ELINT birds to NRTO (which makes a lot of sense considering NRTO already has their own air wing) but ARC will be retaining transport air assets for SFF/SG

More than once have Bell made presentations to them for them

 

[abingdonboy]

Going to burst a few bubbles here


This is a recent
SFF

Cr@ppy ancient short barrel AKs, crappy model 1974 helmets, no decent plate carriers or comns but hey, at least they have woodland MARPAT

This is the best even R&AW without all the MoD’s red taps can do?

no such thing as ‘special’ units in India- they are all treated in the same indifferent manner.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Going to burst a few bubbles here


This is a recent
SFF

Cr@ppy ancient short barrel AKs, crappy model 1974 helmets, no decent plate carriers or comns but hey, at least they have woodland MARPAT

This is the best even R&AW without all the MoD’s red taps can do?

no such thing as ‘special’ units in India- they are all treated in the same indifferent manner.

View attachment 58381

what a shame.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Going to burst a few bubbles here


This is a recent
SFF

Cr@ppy ancient short barrel AKs, crappy model 1974 helmets, no decent plate carriers or comns but hey, at least they have woodland MARPAT

This is the best even R&AW without all the MoD’s red taps can do?

no such thing as ‘special’ units in India- they are all treated in the same indifferent manner.

View attachment 58381

So all of them have AK-74Us , standard IA Tactical Vest and Plate Carrier, standard IA pistol holster with quite possibly OFB 1A pistol, M1974 helmets and eye protection goggles ?

That's what J&K SOG or what an IA trooper deployed along LAC had in 2019?

BTW, the Spetsnaz hated the AK-74U due to range of just 200 m in Afghanistan. They frequently replaced them with AK 74M rifles.

It was called 'malen'kaya suchka' or Little Bitch due to the limited range and higher recoil.

 

[Emperor Kalki]

Why is everyone considering SFF to be something super special...its not....its secretive, yes, for obvious reasons (soldiers from a foreign exiled community and all that shit)....but nothing special....maybe SG is but don't know.....just listen to the last few minutes in this....like from 08:00 or something....

 

[Vishal reddy]

Going to burst a few bubbles here


This is a recent
SFF

Cr@ppy ancient short barrel AKs, crappy model 1974 helmets, no decent plate carriers or comns but hey, at least they have woodland MARPAT

This is the best even R&AW without all the MoD’s red taps can do?

no such thing as ‘special’ units in India- they are all treated in the same indifferent manner.

View attachment 58381

For people who don't understand, how SFF works, its simple, it's a paramilitary unit not a commando force in whole. It's like any other battalion in Army!! It's made up of regular infantry units who carry sub-standard weapons and BP jackets and helmets. But every battalion also has commando units who are well armed and trained as well
For eg:
SFF commando with STar 21 (already posted in the thread)

SFF commando with P90 PWD

But overall I agree, since it's a special paramilitary unit, even an Infantry soldier should be better equipped, let alone a commando in SFF!!

 

[ALBY]

I heard a youtube video by a former SPG DIG who had served almost 14 years in it in teo terms. The video is in malayalam. He mentions about the so called reflex pistol shooting.
He said that earlier all SPG guys were issed Glocks with just 10 rounds ammo which was easy to be concealed so was easy to be moved around.Also their firing requirement/standard was to shoot all the 10 rounds in 8 secs.But by mid 2000s when IPS cadre AIG was made in charge of training of SPG he made many reforms which are debated even today.
It includes intro of bulky Fn2000s, increasing of ammo carrying from 10 to 60 per operator and changing the standard from shooting 10 rounds in 8 sec to shooting 2 rounds in 2 secs which included cocking also.
The negative aspect was that being a preventive body guard unit they lost their maneuverability.
Also while training this shooting of two rounds per sec put enormous pressure on the recruits as a single error could led to their rejection.Also there were instances where people getting injured in such tactics. Not everyone in the SPG was welcoming of such reforms as there were many practical issues in these reforms while in paper it looked cool.
Just brought this up because many of us were discussing about the lack of shooting skills and use of bulky weapons by SPG and their practical infeasibility.
Btw this officer was the top of their batch in his first tenure and came second in the second selection trials even at the age of 45.

 

[Emperor Kalki]

I heard a youtube video by a former SPG DIG who had served almost 14 years in it in teo terms. The video is in malayalam. He mentions about the so called reflex pistol shooting.
He said that earlier all SPG guys were issed Glocks with just 10 rounds ammo which was easy to be concealed so was easy to be moved around.Also their firing requirement/standard was to shoot all the 10 rounds in 8 secs.But by mid 2000s when IPS cadre AIG was made in charge of training of SPG he made many reforms which are debated even today.
It includes intro of bulky Fn2000s, increasing of ammo carrying from 10 to 60 per operator and changing the standard from shooting 10 rounds in 8 sec to shooting 2 rounds in 2 secs which included cocking also.
The negative aspect was that being a preventive body guard unit they lost their maneuverability.
Also while training this shooting of two rounds per sec put enormous pressure on the recruits as a single error could led to their rejection.Also there were instances where people getting injured in such tactics. Not everyone in the SPG was welcoming of such reforms as there were many practical issues in these reforms while in paper it looked cool.
Just brought this up because many of us were discussing about the lack of shooting skills and use of bulky weapons by SPG and their practical infeasibility.
Btw this officer was the top of their batch in his first tenure and came second in the second selection trials even at the age of 45.

Safari....

 

[AZTEC]

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

For people who don't understand, how SFF works, its simple, it's a paramilitary unit not a commando force in whole. It's like any other battalion in Army!! It's made up of regular infantry units who carry sub-standard weapons and BP jackets and helmets. But every battalion also has commando units who are well armed and trained as well
For eg:
SFF commando with STar 21 (already posted in the thread)
View attachment 58479
SFF commando with P90 PWD
View attachment 58480
But overall I agree, since it's a special paramilitary unit, even an Infantry soldier should be better equipped, let alone a commando in SFF!!

If SFF will do the job of holding territory on LAC then who will get para dropped beyond enemy lines and speak Tibetian language?

Punjabi or Malyali SF operator?

 

[Vishal reddy]

If SFF will do the job of holding territory on LAC then who will get para dropped beyond enemy lines and speak Tibetian language?

Punjabi or Malyali SF operator?

Huh?? When did I even mention about holding any territory?? I just explained how it works!! Plus not to mention if you didn't know SFF Paratroopers work with ITBP who themselves have Paratrooper battalion!!
They work as a back up for SFF Paratroopers

 

[avknight1408]

Not sure if this has been posted before. I recently came across this video from Associated Press. Posting it here since the video has both SPG & NSG.

Assassination attempt on Rajiv Gandhi in 1986.




Also found an in-depth India Today article from October 1986 regarding this incident.

Attempt to assassinate Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi exposes chinks in his security armour