Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Huh?? When did I even mention about holding any territory?? I just explained how it works!! Plus not to mention if you didn't know SFF Paratroopers work with ITBP who themselves have Paratrooper battalion!!
They work as a back up for SFF Paratroopers
View attachment 58484

What was the infantry battalion comparison for then..i didnt understand.

 

[Bhadra]

@abingdonboy

Another reason why Special ops command i dont have much hope from.

We used a specialised battalion to do the job of a infantry battalion and everyone looks pretty happy about it.

The psyche of a General hasnt changed post Kargil it seems.

You are a special cribber of the thread..
Those who used that Special Force there are much more astute and wise than you and they have used that battalion for very special Strategic purposes... deliberately and consciously..

Baap Ne Nahi Mari Mendaki aur Beta Teerandaz..

 

[Vishal reddy]

What was the infantry battalion comparison for then..i didnt understand.

The Commando units are like US army rangers who are present in every battalion. They scout the area, analyse the situation and them remove any threat. Then the infantry units are given the authorization to infiltrate the enemy space.

 

[Bhadra]

Sir, people like us gonna keep ranting about problems like this but nothing gonna change till the higher ranking officials change their attitude of "Tradition over Functionality" over time.

Recently, i also saw some tweets about the uniform change program, that we shouldn't change our uniform to more of an US/UK type....we should stick to our current one; we shouldn't do anything to our tradition etc.
Although i also saw some civilians also saying our camo is better & we shouldn't be changing this to any MultiCam inspired camo either.

Give me money... I will get you the Moon... obstinate demanding kids land up creating problems for themselves..

I find this thread full of cribbers and I am sure none of them are anywhere near being soldiers.. I wonder if such efforts are deliberate..

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

You are a special cribber of the thread..
Those who used that Special Force there are much more astute and wise than you and they have used that battalion for very special Strategic purposes... deliberately and consciously..

Baap Ne Nahi Mari Mendaki aur Beta Teerandaz..

Ya i have met many astute people like you who have no answers.

Everyone knows how Para and SFF was misused in Kargil including Para SF officers.

lekin yha toh alag hi chaman chutiye bhare he jo internet ki he man bante he.

 

[Bhadra]

What was the infantry battalion comparison for then..i didnt understand.

Every Infantry battalion is a Specail Force... Infantry has so many colours and variation that it is almost universal --

They come in all shapes - Para, Scouts, Motorised, Mechanised, Mountain, Desert, amphibious, Gurkha, Garwali, Punjabi don to Naga. Every one of them is very special in their sphere and field of work...

Not a step... I say again not a step can be put forward without them.. they are not cribbers, claimers and shouters,,, but they are the only one who measures victory under their feet... No one else has that capability..

 

[ALBY]

Ya i have met many astute people like you who have no answers.

Everyone knows how Para and SFF was misused in Kargil including Para SF officers.

lekin yha toh alag hi chaman chutiye bhare he jo internet ki he man bante he.

Afaik SFF were used not for direct actions but for fixing ropes for other infantry units in difficult terrains as theybwere the best in the job.
Concerning use of Para it could be said that it was not their primary mandate but in such high intensity conflicts where regulars were drawing heavy casualty SF with their superior mountain training achieved their objectives with minimal losses as we didnt came across any significant casualty on SF side.Even today army brass dont have any idea of optimally using SF so whats the point of criticising about the decisions made in the heat of events happened some 20 years back.
Btw they were used in tactical ops like laser designating and recon ryt.
Also if u have any idea about things happened in batalik sector/Mushkow valley by SF please share as their deeds are not written anywhere except some pics and vague mentions

 

[Bhadra]

Ya i have met many astute people like you who have no answers.

Everyone knows how Para and SFF was misused in Kargil including Para SF officers.

lekin yha toh alag hi chaman chutiye bhare he jo internet ki he man bante he.

I have been a part of it has seen them being employed including that SF RR battalion whose CO had almost lost his balance .... Today he is a Forum Speaker...

No force of the Indian Army can ever be kept ideal and no one can seek special jobs for one if they are not present... Let it be very clear that if you can not run 200m what the fucks would you do in five miles run...

Many of you always raise very negative questions and put up only negativity in this thread.. I can bet you have never put DMS boots in your feet..

You are a negative sentiment propagandist. But you are trying that with the wrong kind of people..

 

[rkhanna]

Why is everyone considering SFF to be something super special...its not....its secretive, yes, for obvious reasons (soldiers from a foreign e xiled community and all that shit)....but nothing special....maybe SG is but don't know.....just listen to the last few minutes in this....like from 08:00 or something....

Why do you consider SFF NOT a commando unit. What is a commando unit? a light infantry unit specializing in small unit tactics and is able to function far from its logistics train.

I have known/know ex SFF personal both tibetian and non who are family friends. please do read up on what they have done in 1971 and in Kargil.

The same way the Para's are not a 'normal' infantry unit neither is the SFF. their 'secretive nature' has nothing to do with its personel. but the fact that they were taking out of Army Orbat and put under the Cabinet Secretariete and to appease the chinese in the 70s/80s

For people who don't understand, how SFF works, its simple, it's a paramilitary unit not a commando force in whole. It's like any other battalion in Army!! It's made up of regular infantry units who carry sub-standard weapons and BP jackets and helmets. But every battalion also has commando units who are well armed and trained as well
For eg:
SFF commando with STar 21 (already posted in the thread)
View attachment 58479
SFF commando with P90 PWD
View attachment 58480
But overall I agree, since it's a special paramilitary unit, even an Infantry soldier should be better equipped, let alone a commando in SFF!!

Just as an FYI the SFF has been at the forefront of testing new kit for the Indian army from the begining. Calling them paramilitary is only a function of their organization structure. Like the NSG. takes nothing away from them.

They are no where close to a regular infantry unit. in selection, employment or C&C. It is not their kit but their purpose and employment that makes them different. Problems with Kit permeate every single fighting arm of hte Indian Military and thats different topic.

The Commando units are like US army rangers who are present in every battalion. They scout the area, analyse the situation and them remove any threat. Then the infantry units are given the authorization to infiltrate the enemy space.

Sorry the 75th Army Ranger Regiment is a REGIMENT> they are not present in every battlion. they spear head every combat formation/task force of the US Army. Similar to MARSOC Raiders, Force and Radio Recon Marines. They are their own unit. But units don't fight in isolation.

 

[rkhanna]

Afaik SFF were used not for direct actions but for fixing ropes for other infantry units in difficult terrains as theybwere the best in the job.

I believe that is innacurate, I have heard alot more.

 

[Bhadra]

Afaik SFF were used not for direct actions but for fixing ropes for other infantry units in difficult terrains as theybwere the best in the job.
Concerning use of Para it could be said that it was not their primary mandate but in such high intensity conflicts where regulars were drawing heavy casualty SF with their superior mountain training achieved their objectives with minimal losses as we didnt came across any significant casualty on SF side.Even today army brass dont have any idea of optimally using SF so whats the point of criticising about the decisions made in the heat of events happened some 20 years back.
Btw they were used in tactical ops like laser designating and recon ryt.
Also if u have any idea about things happened in batalik sector/Mushkow valley by SF please share as their deeds are not written anywhere except some pics and vague mentions

SFF was used purely and purely for psyops purposes and all-day night signing of songs for Tibetan soldiers is targetted at the world audience as a tool of Liberation agenda of Tibet.. This is simply a tool to embarrass China and blacklist the Tibetan occupation of China.

This a clear cut signalling to China that Tibetan card is on and will be played by India ...

That clearly was a strategic move....

 

[ALBY]

I believe that is innacurate, I have heard alot more.

Sorry i might be wrong read somewhere that after this initial tasks they were relieved fearing capture of them by pakis which may cause embarrassment. Dont know where, could be from this same forum itself.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I have been a part of it has seen them being employed including that SF RR battalion whose CO had almost lost his balance .... Today he is a Forum Speaker...

No force of the Indian Army can ever be kept ideal and no one can seek special jobs for one if they are not present... Let it be very clear that if you can not run 200m what the fucks would you do in five miles run...

Many of you always raise very negative questions and put up only negativity in this thread.. I can bet you have never put DMS boots in your feet..

You are a negative sentiment propagandist. But you are trying that with the wrong kind of people..

You have a mental problem of not liking others opinion which contradict yours because of the grooming your seniors have given you making you insecure over a lot of things.

Which is not my problemo!

The thing is that i said the job of holding territory is of Infanty and not SFF makes you think i am a negative sentiment propagandist is crazy.

In the end you are only making a fool out of yourself.I really tried reasoning with you in our initial debates out of respect for your professional tag in your profile but i am of the opinion that you are a insecure man who personal attacks people who dont agree with him.

We can try avoiding replying each other coz at your age people only get worse.

Jai Hind!

 

[AZTEC]

SFF is not like a regular army battalion, as is being said here.

They are modeled on the Kennedy-era US Army Green Berets. They are similar to Para (Airborne).

Indian Special Frontier Force (SFF) - Boot Camp & Military Fitness Institute

Elite & Special Forces Main Page Indian Elite & Special Forces Main Page This article is organised as follows: Part 01: Introduction to the Indian Special Frontier Force (SFF) Part 02: Hierarchy of SFF. Part 03: Organisation of SFF. Part 04: Recruitment, Selection and Training of SFF. Part 05...

bootcampmilitaryfitnessinstitute.com

Going to burst a few bubbles here


This is a recent
SFF

Cr@ppy ancient short barrel AKs, crappy model 1974 helmets, no decent plate carriers or comns but hey, at least they have woodland MARPAT

This is the best even R&AW without all the MoD’s red taps can do?

no such thing as ‘special’ units in India- they are all treated in the same indifferent manner.

View attachment 58381

That’s certainly a bit embarrassing but it can, however, be explained off as a training sortie.

These guys are most probably trainees because they wouldn’t be allowed to say cheese before a combat operation.

 

[Waanar]

Lots of unsubstantiated bs right now on the thread tbh.

It's recommended to either cite your sources or narrate personal experiences rather than just blabbering away without any sense please.

Also, what's up with the personal attacks?

 

[Bhadra]

Afaik SFF were used not for direct actions but for fixing ropes for other infantry units in difficult terrains as theybwere the best in the job.

There was no cliff or rack assault involved in the operations on those comparatively gentle hill and SFF are not the only one trained in cliff assaults. They were rightfully used as they exist. Let that be so,

Concerning use of Para it could be said that it was not their primary mandate but in such high intensity conflicts where regulars were drawing heavy casualty SF with their superior mountain training achieved their objectives with minimal losses as we didnt came across any significant casualty on SF side.

Give me instances where Infantry failed and then Paras were employed due to whatever reasons you state.

today army brass dont have any idea of optimally using SF so whats the point of criticising about the decisions made in the heat of events happened some 20 years back.
Btw they were used in tactical ops like laser designating and recon ryt.
Also if u have any idea about things happened in batalik sector/Mushkow valley by SF please share as their deeds are not written anywhere except some pics and vague mentions

This tirade of Army brass not knowing where and how to use SF is faulty and mischivious to say the least. The Army brass comprises of many Agra Generals and even others know it fully well where and how to employ them in our environment and military context. They have been employed under their own officers and in all military tasks. There have been instances when they miserably failed but that does not diminish their importance.

In last 74 years Indian Army has remained mired and employed in tactical or operational tasks so where should have the generals gone to find tasks for their SF. Were they able to apprehend, Pirbhakar in Srilanka or Paresh Barua in Assam or stop Chittagong trail. Why was Bhinderwalan not taken alive by them? Why did they hide when Major Virendra Sing and his platoon of 13 SIKHLI was being butchered at Jaffna university ground.? Was not raid on Jaffna University worth them.. ?? Where was Dalbir then .. Why was a commanding officer and two company commanders and many other of another battalion sacrificed to extricate them from there...

Please do not raise such crass questions... do not provoke.. let things not go to anyone's head.. these things happen and no one is a superman in our Army..

 

[Rohan Naik]

yeh kaun hein?

NCC cadet

 

[AZTEC]

A Google search tells me that this image hasn’t been posted here yet. So I am posting it now:

Here, the term “ghost unit” most probably refers to the Special Group.

The “screenshot” which Shatrujeet is talking about is probably the one given here:

Special Group or 22 SF or The Mavericks

Indians know how to keep secrets and one of the secret reveal when the existence of SFF came into news and it spread like a forest fire, discussions taken place on social media and al…

elitepredators.wordpress.com

 

[abingdonboy]

For people who don't understand, how SFF works, its simple, it's a paramilitary unit not a commando force in whole. It's like any other battalion in Army!! It's made up of regular infantry units who carry sub-standard weapons and BP jackets and helmets. But every battalion also has commando units who are well armed and trained as well
For eg:
SFF commando with STar 21 (already posted in the thread)
View attachment 58479
SFF commando with P90 PWD
View attachment 58480
But overall I agree, since it's a special paramilitary unit, even an Infantry soldier should be better equipped, let alone a commando in SFF!!

SFF Isn’t just a paramilitary unit they are meant to be an elite fighting force under R&AW explicitly meant to go behind Chinese lines establish local resistance, nurture them and cause disruption inside China, in this sense they are close to the original mandate of the US ARMY’s green berets/ODAs

I heard a youtube video by a former SPG DIG who had served almost 14 years in it in teo terms. The video is in malayalam. He mentions about the so called reflex pistol shooting.
He said that earlier all SPG guys were issed Glocks with just 10 rounds ammo which was easy to be concealed so was easy to be moved around.Also their firing requirement/standard was to shoot all the 10 rounds in 8 secs.But by mid 2000s when IPS cadre AIG was made in charge of training of SPG he made many reforms which are debated even today.
It includes intro of bulky Fn2000s, increasing of ammo carrying from 10 to 60 per operator and changing the standard from shooting 10 rounds in 8 sec to shooting 2 rounds in 2 secs which included cocking also.
The negative aspect was that being a preventive body guard unit they lost their maneuverability.
Also while training this shooting of two rounds per sec put enormous pressure on the recruits as a single error could led to their rejection.Also there were instances where people getting injured in such tactics. Not everyone in the SPG was welcoming of such reforms as there were many practical issues in these reforms while in paper it looked cool.
Just brought this up because many of us were discussing about the lack of shooting skills and use of bulky weapons by SPG and their practical infeasibility.
Btw this officer was the top of their batch in his first tenure and came second in the second selection trials even at the age of 45.

60 rounds is 1 mag (loaded) and 2 on the belt which is fairly standard for these kind of roles. Sure the CPT is not meant to be engaging in sustained firefights but you have to assume the worst and even 60 rounds can disappear pretty quickly if you go full mag dump and the brown stuff is really hitting the fan

The CAT/SIU guys are carrying a LOT more than 60 rounds for their primary weapon


any other details the former SPG guy could offer up I would be interested to hear, I don’t think there’s any real former SPG guy who has spoken on the record about the unit

Not sure if this has been posted before. I recently came across this video from Associated Press. Posting it here since the video has both SPG & NSG.

Assassination attempt on Rajiv Gandhi in 1986.




Also found an in-depth India Today article from October 1986 regarding this incident.

Attempt to assassinate Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi exposes chinks in his security armour

pretty interesting, NSG were used as the SPG’s CAT/SIU until they stood up their own such force in the early 00s

I’d guess this is how SRG were created and then the explosion in VVIP duties there in (slowly winding down now)

SFF is not like a regular army battalion, as is being said here.

They are modeled on the Kennedy-era US Army Green Berets. They are similar to Para (Airborne).

Indian Special Frontier Force (SFF) - Boot Camp & Military Fitness Institute

Elite & Special Forces Main Page Indian Elite & Special Forces Main Page This article is organised as follows: Part 01: Introduction to the Indian Special Frontier Force (SFF) Part 02: Hierarchy of SFF. Part 03: Organisation of SFF. Part 04: Recruitment, Selection and Training of SFF. Part 05...

bootcampmilitaryfitnessinstitute.com

That’s certainly a bit embarrassing but it can, however, be explained off as a training sortie.

These guys are most probably trainees because they wouldn’t be allowed to say cheese before a combat operation.

maybe trainees but I wouldn’t bet my house on it


that these guys are outside of the MoD’s chain of command (as far as training and procurements are concerned) they should be doing a LOT better than what we’ve seen. R&AW has pretty extensive black
Budgets and surely outfitting SFF to the highest possible standards would be a given but sadly even here no one in any postion of authority seems to give a sh!t

A Google search tells me that this image hasn’t been posted here yet. So I am posting it now:

Here, the term “ghost unit” most probably refers to the Special Group.

The “screenshot” which Shatrujeet is talking about is probably the one given here:

Special Group or 22 SF or The Mavericks

Indians know how to keep secrets and one of the secret reveal when the existence of SFF came into news and it spread like a forest fire, discussions taken place on social media and al…

elitepredators.wordpress.com

The top image is NSG, second pic is SG but they are entirely distinct from SFF and are too often conflated with them in terms of role and equipment but they are an entirely separate entity with almost no cross-pollination between SFF and SG

So if SG have SCARs it doesn’t mean SFF does

 

[ALBY]

60 rounds is 1 mag (loaded) and 2 on the belt which is fairly standard for these kind of roles. Sure the CPT is not meant to be engaging in sustained firefights but you have to assume the worst and even 60 rounds can disappear pretty quickly if you go full mag dump and the brown stuff is really hitting the fan

The CAT/SIU guys are carrying a LOT more than 60 rounds for their primary weapon


any other details the former SPG guy could offer up I would be interested to hear, I don’t thin

Actually he didn't directly criticised but said even today among SPG circles these reforms are debated.He mentions many time that inside SPG you make a single blunder of any magnitude whether small or big the next day you will be send back without even an explanation.
So when the change in shooting standards were made men were very reluctant to even try as failure could send them back.
Will do share if something new comesup in his next episodes.
Btw it seems that selection trials is for a period of 70 days which includes 5 days hells week or so which was of 3 earlier.