Indian Special Forces (archived)

[abingdonboy]

Nope.Very recently they bought a new lot of Mp5s.There was article on it which was shared in this forum.

It’s true.
A few years back H&K said they would no longer be selling weapons to countries that weren’t ‘democratic’ or were ‘corrupt’ which for some reason included India on the list

One of the world's biggest arms companies just said they would no longer supply Saudi Arabia

The move would rule out arms deals with Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Brazil, India and even Nato member Turkey

www.independent.co.uk

However NSG has inducted new MP5s since then (A5s and even has a RFI out currently for more MP5s) it also looks as though they procured a limited number of MPXs from SIG perhaps has a hedge agaisnt such bans from the Germans

 

[Rohan Naik]

PARA SF for sure and yes they have used K9s before depending on the op requirements.
View attachment 57916View attachment 57917

The last pic be like : Ruk ja bc, FB par live aane de.....inki maan ki

 

[AZTEC]

Don’t know how you can infer SG’s budget by looking at SPG’s

As I mentioned earlier, both SG and SPG are under control of the Cabinet Secretariat. Consequently, both SG and SPG would have a similar budget.

I know that SFF - of which SG is a part - has a different role as compared to SPG, and therefore, has different qualitative staff requirements.

However, if the Secretariat is providing tons of ₹rupees₹ to SPG, which it is, there is no reason to say that the Secretariat may be adopting a step-motherly treatment vis-à-vis the SG.

It can, therefore, be confidently said that SG is awash with money by looking at SGP’s budget.

I am re-posting the following quote:
"We just had to ask for equipment and it would be given," a former SG officer told India Today.

I hope I answered your question.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

As I mentioned earlier, both SG and SPG are under control of the Cabinet Secretariat. Consequently, both SG and SPG would have a similar budget.

I know that SFF - of which SG is a part - has a different role as compared to SPG, and therefore, has different qualitative staff requirements.

However, if the Secretariat is providing tons of ₹rupees₹ to SPG, which it is, there is no reason to say that the Secretariat may be adopting a step-motherly treatment vis-à-vis the SG.

It can, therefore, be confidently said that SG is awash with money by looking at SGP’s budget.

I am re-posting the following quote:
"We just had to ask for equipment and it would be given," a former SG officer told India Today.

I hope I answered your question.

The same parent body, does not guarantee same budget.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The same parent body, does not guarantee same budget.

Thats right.

One under congress was given a lot of money for buying whatever they want after Rajiv Gandhis death.

No one really cares about SG and SFF and Para..and the pictures show that exactly.

 

[Gessler]

I understand and agree with your point.

Can you please post the photos of Crye Airframe helmets which you have seen?

Sorry it's not Crye Airframe but Revision Caiman Applique kit with SFF - they are both the same kind of system though, applique armour additions for high-cut helmets:

—————————————————-
I am seeing unprecedented interest being shown by mainstream western media in SFF.

Indian special forces soldier killed in skirmish with Chinese troops

Member of India’s Special Frontier Force killed in clash on Saturday night

www.theguardian.com

They're just picking up whatever the English-language Indian media is writing about.

Thats right.

One under congress was given a lot of money for buying whatever they want after Rajiv Gandhis death.

No one really cares about SG and SFF and Para..and the pictures show that exactly.

Exactly. SPG is about protecting the a$$es of the political top-brass. Obviously they'll get blank cheques if they ask. The same cannot be true for SG/SFF or any Indian SF for that matter.

 

[Gessler]

Furthermore, while its true that SPG is probably the most well-equipped tactical unit in India, they are nowhere even close to the global standard. Something we should note.

For example, I've never seen the SPG CAT employ ballistic helmets in any situation whatsoever. One can make the case for Close-Protection division of SPG (the guys in suits/safaris) to go without any armour in order to keep themselves as light & quick as possible as their role is to pretty much jump on & shield the protectee as quickly as possible and armour could hinder their speed.

But CAT's role is different, they do wear vests with heavy ballistic plate inserts so there's no reason why they shouldn't wear helmets as well. Like the Secret Service's CAT members very often do -

Not wearing helmets also presents other hindrances. Such as not being able to quickly deploy night vision equipment in the event of power loss indoors or in outdoors at night. While SPG CAT is often seen carrying large pouches which we assume could be NVGs (could also be breathing apparatus), they simply cannot be deployed as rapidly as an NVG readily mounted on a helmet.

Furthermore, they still resort to using the FN F2000 which no self-respecting SOF in the world uses in any operational role. It's just a fancy-looking gun is all and is several notches lower in terms of raw functionality compared to a well-made AR-15 from any good company. It has to go with a one-size-fits-all methodology due to lack of adjustable stock length and I've no idea why a top-notch Special unit has to put up with such drawbacks. Plus its nowhere as customizable and functional as aforementioned AR-15s.

And before anyone jumps to it - no, the SCAR-Hs used by SPG have not replaced the F2000s, they've just supplemented them.

And @AZTEC, even if we assume SG has all the kind of budget SPG gets, we still cannot forget that SPG CAT itself doesn't have comm headsets! They use in-ear headphones connected to radio - something which 'discreet' bodyguards (like SPG's safari/suit-wearing close-protection guys) ought to be using.

An overt tactical team like CAT which is carrying around assault rifles with full body armour has no reason to just be using such in-ear devices. They should be using comm headsets just like any military SOF team.

So yeah, SPG itself has long way to go before they can be considered on par with comparable global units in terms of equipment. So its quite a step-off to assume too much of SG's kit.

 

[rkhanna]

Thats right.

One under congress was given a lot of money for buying whatever they want after Rajiv Gandhis death.

No one really cares about SG and SFF and Para..and the pictures show that exactly.

Don't forget that only a few years ago SFF and the Paras were short of parachutes and we're using old reused ones to get by. And not to forget the drugs and sex scandal that plagued the SFF.

 

[rkhanna]

it's not Crye Airframe but Revision Caiman Applique kit with SFF - they are both the same kind of system though, applique armour additions for high-cut helmets

Also don't forget , 1 picture doesn't mean anything. Often testing equipment (few 10s in number ) are bought for eval and are never purchased unit wide

 

[operatorgrumby]

Furthermore, while its true that SPG is probably the most well-equipped tactical unit in India, they are nowhere even close to the global standard. Something we should note.

For example, I've never seen the SPG CAT employ ballistic helmets in any situation whatsoever. One can make the case for Close-Protection division of SPG (the guys in suits/safaris) to go without any armour in order to keep themselves as light & quick as possible as their role is to pretty much jump on & shield the protectee as quickly as possible and armour could hinder their speed.

But CAT's role is different, they do wear vests with heavy ballistic plate inserts so there's no reason why they shouldn't wear helmets as well. Like the Secret Service's CAT members very often do -

View attachment 58089

Not wearing helmets also presents other hindrances. Such as not being able to quickly deploy night vision equipment in the event of power loss indoors or in outdoors at night. While SPG CAT is often seen carrying large pouches which we assume could be NVGs (could also be breathing apparatus), they simply cannot be deployed as rapidly as an NVG readily mounted on a helmet.

Furthermore, they still resort to using the FN F2000 which no self-respecting SOF in the world uses in any operational role. It's just a fancy-looking gun is all and is several notches lower in terms of raw functionality compared to a well-made AR-15 from any good company. It has to go with a one-size-fits-all methodology due to lack of adjustable stock length and I've no idea why a top-notch Special unit has to put up with such drawbacks. Plus its nowhere as customizable and functional as aforementioned AR-15s.

And before anyone jumps to it - no, the SCAR-Hs used by SPG have not replaced the F2000s, they've just supplemented them.

And @AZTEC, even if we assume SG has all the kind of budget SPG gets, we still cannot forget that SPG CAT itself doesn't have comm headsets! They use in-ear headphones connected to radio - something which 'discreet' bodyguards (like SPG's safari/suit-wearing close-protection guys) ought to be using.

An overt tactical team like CAT which is carrying around assault rifles with full body armour has no reason to just be using such in-ear devices. They should be using comm headsets just like any military SOF team.

So yeah, SPG itself has long way to go before they can be considered on par with comparable global units in terms of equipment. So its quite a step-off to assume too much of SG's kit.

And if people are still confused in the term "Integrated comms".... then here is a very uncalled-for comparison

Comms device/Earpiece

Seen with almost all of our special ops dudes.

Pros- You can talk with your war buddies from a distance

Cons- Hearing protection , lol good luck with that..

Ear Pro

Runs on AAA battery, does all kind of wizardry to block loud noises, so you can hear your buddy's crappy voice clearly.
Seen occasionally with our troops.

Pros- Protects your poor ears from loud noises.

Cons- No comms so RIP talking to your buddies at distance

Comms Integrated Headset

Does all the works of Electronic Ear Pros & you have comms integrated into them.

Pros- You can talk with your element while nurturing your hearing ability from noise created by combat & more importantly they look cool.

Cons- They are freaking Expensive & We don't have them yet....

 

[rkhanna]

Pros- You can talk with your element while nurturing your hearing ability from noise created by combat & more importantly they look cool.

Adding to the Pros -

1)alot of operators place the R/T transmission button on the foregrip of their guns. You can shoot and communicate at the same time.

2) - squad CO / 2InC can have 2 inputs into their headsets - 1 ear on squad net, 1 ear on command net

3) the headsets protect ears from blast concussions as well.

AAR from astan and Iraq showed thst constant operational use of flash bangs and grenades was causing brain/eardrum. injuries to the operators themselves

( In similar vein there are a number of operational efficiencies to be gained from suppressors other than 'low noise')

 

[AZTEC]

The Tibetan ghost warriors

India wrests high ground in Eastern Ladakh with some help from a secret commando force.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Furthermore, while its true that SPG is probably the most well-equipped tactical unit in India, they are nowhere even close to the global standard. Something we should note.

For example, I've never seen the SPG CAT employ ballistic helmets in any situation whatsoever. One can make the case for Close-Protection division of SPG (the guys in suits/safaris) to go without any armour in order to keep themselves as light & quick as possible as their role is to pretty much jump on & shield the protectee as quickly as possible and armour could hinder their speed.

But CAT's role is different, they do wear vests with heavy ballistic plate inserts so there's no reason why they shouldn't wear helmets as well. Like the Secret Service's CAT members very often do -

View attachment 58089

Not wearing helmets also presents other hindrances. Such as not being able to quickly deploy night vision equipment in the event of power loss indoors or in outdoors at night. While SPG CAT is often seen carrying large pouches which we assume could be NVGs (could also be breathing apparatus), they simply cannot be deployed as rapidly as an NVG readily mounted on a helmet.

Furthermore, they still resort to using the FN F2000 which no self-respecting SOF in the world uses in any operational role. It's just a fancy-looking gun is all and is several notches lower in terms of raw functionality compared to a well-made AR-15 from any good company. It has to go with a one-size-fits-all methodology due to lack of adjustable stock length and I've no idea why a top-notch Special unit has to put up with such drawbacks. Plus its nowhere as customizable and functional as aforementioned AR-15s.

And before anyone jumps to it - no, the SCAR-Hs used by SPG have not replaced the F2000s, they've just supplemented them.

And @AZTEC, even if we assume SG has all the kind of budget SPG gets, we still cannot forget that SPG CAT itself doesn't have comm headsets! They use in-ear headphones connected to radio - something which 'discreet' bodyguards (like SPG's safari/suit-wearing close-protection guys) ought to be using.

An overt tactical team like CAT which is carrying around assault rifles with full body armour has no reason to just be using such in-ear devices. They should be using comm headsets just like any military SOF team.

So yeah, SPG itself has long way to go before they can be considered on par with comparable global units in terms of equipment. So its quite a step-off to assume too much of SG's kit.

Well written post.

And look anyone can claim anything that he or she wants maybe something like SG is better equipped than Seals but everything falls flat when we see the pictures.

The tactical movements are not current.Although tactics change but ours are more than 2 decades old.

Shooting drills suck if you ask me and when i see Armoured or Arty guys standing side ways and taking aim like they are in the Olympics i feel like whats really going on.

Then most if not all operators dont respect putting on a helmet.If you dont put on a helmet it is pretty damn obvious you have no idea about technology.

Education and Exposure...This department i would say we are as good as nothing.Our Sniper course focuses on born shooters not trained shooters and born shooters also with no gadgets and education are as good as DMs.

Instead of importing Ford trucks and Renault from abroad and if we improvised with Mahhindra and if we spent that money on buying modern helmets and com sets we would have atleast equipped a handful of operators to world standards..but that is something i dont expect even from the NSG.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Don't forget that only a few years ago SFF and the Paras were short of parachutes and we're using old reused ones to get by. And not to forget the drugs and sex scandal that plagued the SFF.

Drugs scandal hmmm...thats not past bro.

 

[Bhadra]

The Tibetan ghost warriors

India wrests high ground in Eastern Ladakh with some help from a secret commando force.

www.indiatoday.in

Where are the ARCHERS in this setup ??
ARC has a lot of helicopters too....

 

[operatorgrumby]

Well written post.

And look anyone can claim anything that he or she wants maybe something like SG is better equipped than Seals but everything falls flat when we see the pictures.

The tactical movements are not current.Although tactics change but ours are more than 2 decades old.

Shooting drills suck if you ask me and when i see Armoured or Arty guys standing side ways and taking aim like they are in the Olympics i feel like whats really going on.

Then most if not all operators dont respect putting on a helmet.If you dont put on a helmet it is pretty damn obvious you have no idea about technology.

Education and Exposure...This department i would say we are as good as nothing.Our Sniper course focuses on born shooters not trained shooters and born shooters also with no gadgets and education are as good as DMs.

Instead of importing Ford trucks and Renault from abroad and if we improvised with Mahhindra and if we spent that money on buying modern helmets and com sets we would have atleast equipped a handful of operators to world standards..but that is something i dont expect even from the NSG.

Sir, people like us gonna keep ranting about problems like this but nothing gonna change till the higher ranking officials change their attitude of "Tradition over Functionality" over time.

Recently, i also saw some tweets about the uniform change program, that we shouldn't change our uniform to more of an US/UK type....we should stick to our current one; we shouldn't do anything to our tradition etc.
Although i also saw some civilians also saying our camo is better & we shouldn't be changing this to any MultiCam inspired camo either.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

@abingdonboy

Another reason why Special ops command i dont have much hope from.

We used a specialised battalion to do the job of a infantry battalion and everyone looks pretty happy about it.

The psyche of a General hasnt changed post Kargil it seems.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

MARCOS INDRA 2017

 

[Vishal reddy]

The Tibetan ghost warriors

India wrests high ground in Eastern Ladakh with some help from a secret commando force.

www.indiatoday.in

ARC has also got Boeing 707 too!! It was a well kept secret, until recently.

Boeing 707 along with IL 76 in the background.