Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Aniruddha Mulay]

I don't know the main reasons for delay for the procurement of these, but I will say that by now our SF must be ready to be equipped with these.
We even saw that how Para SF boys have acquired exfil helmets with nvg mounts on them.

Oh and another noob question--
How costly is a communication headset
Which are used in high cut helmets???

Expect the COMTAC kits to cost around $700-900 per headset.
Coming to the Quad Tube NVG part, the US ones cost $43,000.

 

[EternalNxg]

Expect the COMTAC kits to cost around $700-900 per headset.
Coming to the Quad Tube NVG part, the US ones cost $43,000.

We haven't even acquired the dual tube variant made by tonbo yet,
I expect getting these quad tubes around 7 to 8 years from now.
US made version costs 43000$
However tonbo made bnvd p might cost even less.

 

[operatorgrumby]

I don't know the main reasons for delay for the procurement of these, but I will say that by now our SF must be ready to be equipped with these.
We even saw that how Para SF boys have acquired exfil helmets with nvg mounts on them.

Oh and another noob question--
How costly is a communication headset
Which are used in high cut helmets???

Their range can vary from $500 to nearly $2500 depending upon their noise reduction capability ands comms adaptability. The single channel comms headset are normally cheaper while the dual comms one's are usually costs over $1000.

You can also add a couple hundred dollars in their accessories as well ( Push-To-talk system, Gel Cups, Clip-Ons to fix the headset with the helmet ).

 

[operatorgrumby]

We haven't even acquired the dual tube variant made by tonbo yet,
I expect getting these quad tubes around 7 to 8 years from now.
US made version costs 43000$
However tonbo made bnvd p might cost even less.

As of now we really don't have much information about the BNVD-P of Tonbo. We do know that they a FOV of (>90 deg ) as compared to the US one's ( 97 deg ). Nobody knows about their MIL-SPEC standard also...

 

[rkhanna]

One addition I want to see is a dual purpose fore grip rather than the bipod style layout. May be that can give the operator more control over the weapon with the other hand. But I don't know, it may or may not.

100%
The foregrip helps in a 100 different ways. Specially if the operator has been patroling for hours in a weapons free/weapons ready position.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The demand was always there. But the opportunity and the need to cash it was important at that time.

In my opinion...

CI/CT ops give a good exposure for new SF operators and new team leaders.

So i wouldnt like if they do not do any CI/CT role.I believe it could be part of the initial training or they could send teams of lesser experience' operators in the valley.

Then,type 2 could be the operators who conduct cross border raids on terrorist camps and paki posts.

Once the operators have shown good records here we could send the operators for training in Israel and other friendly countries to cross train.

Now these operators could be conducting the ops everyone wants them to conduct.

I dont think we can just say that none of para sf should do any ci/ct ops.How would they evolve.

We all saw with Garuds that without real ops and just training in shooting ranges you do not learn a lot.

Regarding Infantry...

Infantry units get hell of a experience which you must be knowing better than me.I will share a infantry units deployment in the last 10 years and readers can assume what experience one unit has in the end..

1st deployment in LOC
2nd in UP
3rd in NE ops
4th back to peace location
5th now going back to kashmir or siachen

Thats hell of an experience.

 

[Bhadra]

Para SF are routinely deployed on the LoC for anti-infiltration duties and also tactical cross-border engagements. if you look at the citation of the Para SF operatives in the last couple of years, it confirms my statement. As far as CT/CI roles are considered in the hinterland, Para SF are used as a measure of last resort, only when all other measures are deemed to be unsuccessful. One such example would be the Pampore encounter in 2016.

I was responding to a suggestion that said Infantry units like PARA should also have some experience of seeing bullets fly..

SF are on the anti-infiltration grid for a specific task but not on a routine drudgery. SF do have to cross LC for their tasks and they do stay in the forward bunker for a few hours not for two and a half years of hell under artillery shelling. TOW hitting your bunkers, 24 X7 threat of snippets, and your throat being cut and head being taken across. Every Link or perimeter patrol subject to ambush and every step subject to a land mine explosion...

Given a choice, I would prefer to be in SF battalion that in an Infantry battalion on LC..

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I was responding to a suggestion that said Infantry units like PARA should also have some experience of seeing bullets fly..

SF are on the anti-infiltration grid for a specific task but not on a routine drudgery. SF do have to cross LC for their tasks and they do stay in the forward bunker for a few hours not for two and a half years of hell under artillery shelling. TOW hitting your bunkers, 24 X7 threat of snippets, and your throat being cut and head being taken across. Every Link or perimeter patrol subject to ambush and every step subject to a land mine explosion...

Given a choice, I would prefer to be in SF battalion that in an Infantry battalion on LC..

I think sir what @IndiaRising was saying was that they spend some time on loc after the beheading incidents but you are right.

If i was given a choice i would also choose to be Para SF operator who chooses where to expose himself and kill rather than to be a poor infantryman exposing himself everyday like a sitting duck waiting to be....

The most risky job in IA is that.

 

[Bhadra]

What's the purpose of NSG being sent to have combat experience? Almost all encounters end up with the house getting demolished with the terror shits getting blown up.

What's wrong with having a force dedicatedly specialized in what NSG is? Why to fit it in a equation where it doesn't?

Let us see the super-duper NSG inventing any drill to tackle a Kashiri house - typically inclined tin-roofed, with the airy empty upper portion, lot of wood, and a central staircase... No insertion is possible .... so closely surrounded by other houses and trees.. they are not Iraqi houses or a Bombay building...

It will be a wonder if a typical Kashmiri house occupied by terrorists can be easily tackled without a casualty except by means other than blowing it off.

 

[IndiaRising]

I was responding to a suggestion that said Infantry units like PARA should also have some experience of seeing bullets fly..

SF are on the anti-infiltration grid for a specific task but not on a routine drudgery. SF do have to cross LC for their tasks and they do stay in the forward bunker for a few hours not for two and a half years of hell under artillery shelling. TOW hitting your bunkers, 24 X7 threat of snippets, and your throat being cut and head being taken across. Every Link or perimeter patrol subject to ambush and every step subject to a land mine explosion...

Given a choice, I would prefer to be in SF battalion that in an Infantry battalion on LC..

Yes. In no way am I demeaning the hard work of the regular infantry chaps who have to constantly man the LoC which comes with a higher fatality rate and also added stress due to the factors you mentioned. I have nothing but respect for what they do.

 

[12arya]

to clarify: the protest was about pulling the chaps from active ops in the valley.

I remember reading(cud b very wrong though) it as the 2 CO's stating that they cud do both..that's train for both regular ops and for the surgery (can't remember if it was in gokhale's book or aroor's or news interview!)

then gen. hooda categorically told them to stop other stuff and to concentrate solely on surgery training. and as part of it, they (9&4) trained jointly and extensively and that the morale was high!

 

[aditya g]

I think the forum is seeing too many conversation getting into a Infantry vs SF vs NSG vs police vs other arms type of conversations.

Gentlemen, there is enough "war" going around in India and every service, arm and unit has a role to play.

I am a proponent of all SF in CI/CT as well as LoC. But this is not to replace infantry but to augment them. There are multiple tasks and SF can fulfill tasks such as:

- Counter BAT
- Counter-Infiltration ahead of own defences
- Recce and surveillance
- TransLC ops

Can Infantry not perform these tasks? Of course they can! But then there are occasions when they need the assist. The recent operation in Kupwara was a classic example of counter-infiltration op, though it came into news for the wrong reasons. There are areas which are remote which need SHBO and para SF is on hand.

Similarly NSG can fulfill a role of fighting tactical battles in specific scenarios. There aremany example like Pampore, DPS srinagar, Police lines pulwama etc where NSG could have played a role. The point is that India's premier counter-terrorism force should have a role to play in india's biggest terrorism war.

MARCOS and Garuds should also play a role, under the framework provided by the Army which is the case. For this purposes these 2 units are fighting CI/CT on behalf of Army and not their parent service as such.

I was responding to a suggestion that said Infantry units like PARA should also have some experience of seeing bullets fly..

SF are on the anti-infiltration grid for a specific task but not on a routine drudgery. SF do have to cross LC for their tasks and they do stay in the forward bunker for a few hours not for two and a half years of hell under artillery shelling. TOW hitting your bunkers, 24 X7 threat of snippets, and your throat being cut and head being taken across. Every Link or perimeter patrol subject to ambush and every step subject to a land mine explosion...

Given a choice, I would prefer to be in SF battalion that in an Infantry battalion on LC..

I think sir what @IndiaRising was saying was that they spend some time on loc after the beheading incidents but you are right.

If i was given a choice i would also choose to be Para SF operator who chooses where to expose himself and kill rather than to be a poor infantryman exposing himself everyday like a sitting duck waiting to be....

The most risky job in IA is that.

Let us see the super-duper NSG inventing any drill to tackle a Kashiri house - typically inclined tin-roofed, with the airy empty upper portion, lot of wood, and a central staircase... No insertion is possible .... so closely surrounded by other houses and trees.. they are not Iraqi houses or a Bombay building...

It will be a wonder if a typical Kashmiri house occupied by terrorists can be easily tackled without a casualty except by means other than blowing it off.

 

[WARREN SS]

Expect the COMTAC kits to cost around $700-900 per headset.
Coming to the Quad Tube NVG part, the US ones cost $43,000.

Let Sophisticated Equipment Like Gpnvg 18 be a Luxury Of Teir-1 AFSOD

As Far RR
1000 $ Sig 716G2


You Will Be Surprised how cheap High cut helmet LevelIIA in India
Mere 8500 rs Per piece ( 170 $)

Level Iiia Ballistic Helmet

Level IIIA Ballistic Helmet - Buy Ballistic Helmet at best price of Rs 13500/piece by VIC MAC Corporation. Also find product list from verified suppliers with contact number | ID: 19630273612

www.indiamart.com

Tactical gloves 100 $

Scope 500 $
BPJ Level 3 1000 $

Total Gross Cost Will be around 5000 $ ( Rs 377912.75)

Lets Take gross at 4 Lakh

So To Equip 4,00,000 Infantry Its Will Cost us around 2.2 Billion $

Now
ATN PS15-4 GEN 4 Night Vision Goggle System cost around 10000 $ a Pop

Night Vision Goggles | NVG | ATN Corp

Buy Night Vision Goggles with the best infrared capability. Best price and review on NVG for sale at 🎯 ATN 🎯

www.atncorp.com

So Lets Say It Will Ordered in Limited ratio

So 1,00,000 units Will be around 1 billion $ a pop

Combine Cost Will be around 3.2 billion $

PS: Cost Comparison Based on Top Notch Equipment Price vary if Substitute Available indigenous

 

[Assassin 2.0]

 

[ALBY]

Would have been much better if it had some ramming capabilities to bring down brick walls of houses

 

[operatorgrumby]

The challenge with eyewear while under NVGs has always been that the user has to compromise their safety or visibility.
Now Ops-Core has developed something called SNAP SHIELDs which will help to provide both safety & visibility without any compromises.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Would have been much better if it had some ramming capabilities to bring down brick walls of houses

Daya agrees

 

[Vishal reddy]

Some vintage SFF(Special Frontier Force) commandos!!
Second picture he's got a Tibetan flag!! View attachment 49787View attachment 49788View attachment 49789

 

[ALBY]

Some vintage SFF(Special Frontier Force) commandos!!
Second picture he's got a Tibetan flag!! View attachment 49787View attachment 49788View attachment 49789View attachment 49790

View attachment 49782

View attachment 49783

View attachment 49784

These pics are already in the forum.Please do try to post something which are not posted in the group.

 

[Edyk12]

Not sure if this has been posted before.

Army plans to expand roles for elite special and airborne forces known for surgical strikes

Army has proposed to change the way volunteers are selected and trained for special forces under Parachute Regiment, wants a maximum of 500 personnel trained in every course.

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