Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Immanuel]

SG ranks above any of the Para SF units considering, SG consists of the best of the best coming from various SF units, obviously mostly from Para SF are in there.

SFF is a proper SF modeled along the lines of the Green Berets, they specialize in guerilla warfare and unconventional warfare while being the best high altitude and jungle warriors on the planet. It is quite ridiculous to down play them to an airborne unit. They are the only SF unit permanantly based at Siachen. They are trained extensively in amphibious ops as well. Many operators speak fluent Chinese, Tibetan, Pashto and other languages used around our country.

While Para SF has extensive plans for direct action, sabotage, raids in the Eastern theater, their plans don't include working with local resistance, it is not their tasking. SFF's key role is to act as a force multiplier by working with local resistance. SFF along with RAW maintains an extensive network of resistance fighters in TAR. There is a reason why Dalbir Singh became COAS even while others were more eligible. While being IG of SFF, he was key to restructuring the force into the cyanide tipped arrow that would stall any Chinese aggression to the East or Paki agression to the west.

In any war, whether east or west, they will be among the first to infiltrate into enemy territory in very small teams to activate sleeper cells, resistance nodes, co-ordinate sabotage actions, gather strategic/tactical intel, leade resistance fighters into raids etc (they have done this to excellent effect in the past). They also have a special tasking to assasinate military leadership with the help of RAW.

One must understand all SF units have different taskings. This allows Para SF to conduct it's ops without worrying about other aspects of the war. Garuds were also raised so IAF can prosecute it's own targets without having to rely on Para SF which was the case in the past.

It is quite silly to compare the SFF of 1962 to the force now.

There are also covert mixed teams depending on location, Alpha Group/ SG, Special Tactics Squadron/SG, ST6/Marcos, Delta/SG that have have a key role of going after Puki nuke bunkers if and when Puki nuke arsenal is in imminent danger of falling into the hands of radicals. Their strategic sites are monitored 24/7 by US, Russia and India.

 

[HarshBardhan]

National Security Guard-NSG

 

[HarshBardhan]

National Security Guard-NSG

 

[HarshBardhan]

More pics of NSG

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

If SFF is SF then why do you have SG?

A SF within an SF??

SFF is an elite infantry which is meant to be deployed within one theater.It does not deploy in deserts and amphibious warfare where 50 Para brigade has just conducted an exercise.(unfortunately)

Para SF too has a permanent deployment in Siachen and as a matter of fact Maj. Mike Tango from Surgical strike was deployed in Siachen only when he was called back for a special mission.

Working with local resistance comes when you talk about a looooong war which is not gonna happen.The SFF were not even used in 1962.These days are over.Now the wars are short and crisp.No time to build local resistance.The AF gets into action and bombs special targets along with SF doing the rest of the job.

By the time you build local resistance the war would be over with UN in the picture.What happened to local resistance in 1965 with SSG in Kashmir?These are all wishful thinking which are not practical.

11,12 and 21 SF have pre planned targets set by the IA Higher command and already know what they have to do in a war.

However,I would say that i am not for disbanding SFF or SG.

I think SG is a elite group and should be nourished and polished even more and SFF should slowly phase out all the Tibetans by not inducting any new ones.

We cannot be a military fanboy only and not consider the geo political situation.We had the recent statement by Lama and only God knows what he will be upto in the future.

I call for a all indian SFF and SG.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Have You ever had a chance to review Modified AK-47 shown above .
How much Weight this Kit Increases or Decreases ?
Compared to Regular AK-47 what all changes dose this kit bring ?
Which units of IA are getting equipped ?
Who is doing these Modifications (DRDO + 3rd Party or DRDO with TOT from some foreign vendor ) ?
Is it any good , what do our Guys handling these guns have to say about this ?

No sir,I have not had a chance.

Give me some time to get in touch with a guy who might have got his hands on it and i will keep you posted.

All i can say is that such kind of Kit goes first to RR and Scout battalions in Kashmir and Assam rifles along with SF and then to the rest.

 

[Immanuel]

SFF is not elite infantry, calling them that doesn't make them that. Historically they were raised with help of the CIA along the lines of the Green Berets. Ghataks platoons in any infantry regiment are the real elite infantry. SG is not SF rather a SMU or Special Mission Unit much like Delta/ST-6/STS/ Alpha Group. SG personel are drawn from all SF including mostly Para SF, Marcos, SFF and eventually Garuds.

Para SF is not permanantly deployed at Siachen, they do frequent tours but SFF is the only SF unit with a battalion size force stationed there all year long with men being rotated.

To assume that any war is swift while fighting in some of the most unforgiving terrain is naive. Also activation of certain resistance nodes already begins way before any real hostilties begin as said they maintain a wide network of resistance fighters, contacts, guides etc. Which modern war is actually swift? Name some examples please. No matter how short the initial campaign, any war can go on for months on end while major hostilities may sieze.

SFF have taken part in many raids across the Western frontier as well, so claims of them being East facing is incorrect. One can call for all Indian SG and SFF but won't happen because ground realities are far different. His holiness has always been a peaceful man and has always supported dialogue but rest assured when agression begins from the Chinese side, PMO and others have a direct line to him and he is fully aware that when the Dragon comes swinging, the only thing one can do it to swing right back.

Also the Tibetan element in SFF is today a lot lower with SFF having men from across various parts of India. SFF also has Gurkhas in its ranks.

Why would one compare SSG efforts in Kahsmir in 1965 to ours? Read up how SFF worked with Mukhti Bahini in 71.

Sure, in the past their role and mandate were different but a lot has changed. Actually SFF can have a truly crippling affect on Chinese agression on the East when unconventional warfare is envoked. They have little to no experience fighting a proper unconventional war. It is also the easiet way for them to loose TAR entirely. Such objectives can't be achieved when fighting a purely conventional war against a numerically strong conventional force.

 

[armyofhind]

The SFF were not even used in 1962

SFF was formed after 1962 in the first place.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

You are proving my point eventually!

Battalion size deployment like you rightly said is for Infantry.The SF deploys 100 to 120 men MAX!!This is the point to consider before comparing SF to a Special unit or Infantry.

West according to Indian Army lies around Rajasthan and Punjab.I would like to read about SG operations there.Kashmir is Northern Command according to Indian Army and also Geography.And Kashmir is mountains which is precisely the terrain SFF is raised for unlike the deserts of Rajasthan and Andamans where they cannot operate.

And as far as i know SF can operate anytime,any weather and anywhere!

Here are a list of wars which are short and crisp

Gulf War
Ten day war
6 day war
Operation Iraqi Freedom(capture of Baghdad)
2006 Lebanon war
Russian-Georgian war
1971 India Pak War

War with China wont go for many months.(dont disregard weather and its Himalayas)

One would compare SSG efforts in 65 to a hypothetical situation of SFF being in Tibet because if you talk about a socitey on the whole you cannot expect them to be loyal to you.Hence when you do such kind of adventures there is a big chance of China loyalist giving the info to PLA and the operators being in danger.These kind of operations are very very risky and i am not ready to believe that all of Tibet is anti China.
We just saw even the Lama have a change of heart.

I really have no problem with SFF if we do not induct any more Tibetans.

I agree it is a elite unit,I agree it is a big weapon against China.I agree it should have its role against China.

My point is only that SFF should not have any refugees in it and i dont think why any patriotic Indian with a smart brain would have any sort of problem with this.

SF units are assets in war.If the intel is compromised of such units then they are gone.We cannot afford to trust anyone specially after what Lama is saying these days.

I am glad atleast the IA Generals have reduced the dependency on SFF.

Only wise men keep their options available.

P.S-Every guy on this thread i have had a debate with on SFF indirectly agrees that SFF should has less Tibetans...which is what i am trying to say!!

 

[HarshBardhan]

Have You ever had a chance to review Modified AK-47 shown above .
How much Weight this Kit Increases or Decreases ?
Compared to Regular AK-47 what all changes dose this kit bring ?
Which units of IA are getting equipped ?
Who is doing these Modifications (DRDO + 3rd Party or DRDO with TOT from some foreign vendor ) ?
Is it any good , what do our Guys handling these guns have to say about this ?

I once got a chance to hold it once. I guess you are asking about the FAB Defense MOD AK. Many branches of Indian Armed Forces are getting hand on them. The weight is almost similar to the previous AK. It has got a rubberized grip and a foregrip which can be handled in 7 positions for better targetting .

It has got Ultimag magazines and the advantage is that we can see how many rounds are left. On additional it gets P-Rails , Sightmark Reflex Sights and FALKE 5x Magnifiers which increases the efficiency.

I cannot say how operators like it , since few examples were brought up for methink evaluation purposes at the BSF Range and all I could see jawans and officers nodding their head and all. So I couldn't ask how they felt it. Hope it helps

 

[reddevil9]

If SFF is SF then why do you have SG?

A SF within an SF??

SFF is an elite infantry which is meant to be deployed within one theater.It does not deploy in deserts and amphibious warfare where 50 Para brigade has just conducted an exercise.(unfortunately)

Para SF too has a permanent deployment in Siachen and as a matter of fact Maj. Mike Tango from Surgical strike was deployed in Siachen only when he was called back for a special mission.

Working with local resistance comes when you talk about a looooong war which is not gonna happen.The SFF were not even used in 1962.These days are over.Now the wars are short and crisp.No time to build local resistance.The AF gets into action and bombs special targets along with SF doing the rest of the job.

By the time you build local resistance the war would be over with UN in the picture.What happened to local resistance in 1965 with SSG in Kashmir?These are all wishful thinking which are not practical.

11,12 and 21 SF have pre planned targets set by the IA Higher command and already know what they have to do in a war.

However,I would say that i am not for disbanding SFF or SG.

I think SG is a elite group and should be nourished and polished even more and SFF should slowly phase out all the Tibetans by not inducting any new ones.

We cannot be a military fanboy only and not consider the geo political situation.We had the recent statement by Lama and only God knows what he will be upto in the future.

I call for a all indian SFF and SG.

SFF is more or less similar to the parachute regiment, comprised of, both the airborne and SF units,

SF units-
1) 1st Archer (CDO) "The para Gurkhas"
2) Special Group

Rest others are airborne units 'Vikas' as they are widely known, even the ladies there are parachute qualified, all the units IMO specialize in high altitude and guerrilla warfare.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

SFF is more or less similar to the parachute regiment, comprised of, both the airborne and SF units,

SF units-
1) 1st Archer (CDO) "The para Gurkhas"
2) Special Group

Rest others are airborne units 'Vikas' as they are widely known, even the ladies are parachute qualified, all the units IMO specialize in high altitude and guerrilla warfare.

Bhai aur post kia kar yaar!(frequently)

You know things!!
...................

 

[Vinod DX9]

View from Sights used by our Jawans
Following sights and weapons are in service with
(1) FORCE ONE Maharashtra Police
(3) PARA SF , Garud , MARCOS
(3) Army , Air Force , Police & Paramilitary

 

[Bornubus]

SFF is more or less similar to the parachute regiment, comprised of, both the airborne and SF units,

SF units-
1) 1st Archer (CDO) "The para Gurkhas"
2) Special Group

Rest others are airborne units 'Vikas' as they are widely known, even the ladies there are parachute qualified, all the units IMO specialize in high altitude and guerrilla warfare.

Thik he bhai bilkul. Just add General duties (GD). Political officers and females are in Vikas units (with Tibetan designation)


Currently, atleast one unit is deployed in Assam (peace area) at least one more in Uttarakhand wherein lies the Middle sector of LAC



PS - Now since Doklam issue has been cool down, it was 50 I para Brigade which was sent to Uttarakhand (to guard sensitive Barahoti area) I saw their whole convoy passed in front of me somewhere in Uttarakhand

 

[aditya g]

Is it just one Special Group or multiple Special Groups?

Also do the archers use commando suffix?

SFF is more or less similar to the parachute regiment, comprised of, both the airborne and SF units,

SF units-
1) 1st Archer (CDO) "The para Gurkhas"
2) Special Group

Rest others are airborne units 'Vikas' as they are widely known, even the ladies there are parachute qualified, all the units IMO specialize in high altitude and guerrilla warfare.

 

[Bornubus]

To make it simple lets do a comparison





1,2,3,4,9,10,11,21 SF raised.

Battalion History, currently it's under 50 I para brigade along with 2 more Airborne units

=======================================

 

[reddevil9]

Is it just one Special Group or multiple Special Groups?

Also do the archers use commando suffix?

There's only one Special Group

Yes para gurkhas use commando suffix, see for yourself. 1st archers (CDO)

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Battalion History

View attachment 21790

=======================================

Hann bhai bilkul!

Per main SF ki bat kar raha tha.1962 main toh 1 Para nhi thi Punjab regtt thi.

Merit pe infantry battalions convert huyi hein.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

There's only one Special Group

Yes para gurkhas use commando suffix, see for yourself. 1st archers (CDO)

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

SG i agree is a SF within SFF which like you rightly said is a Para Brigade kind of formation.

But i have a doubt

CDO tag toh 5,6,7 Para ka bhi hein but they are not SF.So how is this SF?

Secondly,are gurkhas on deputation or are they permanent?

 

[reddevil9]

SG i agree is a SF within SFF which like you rightly said is a Para Brigade kind of formation.

But i have a doubt

CDO tag toh 5,6,7 Para ka bhi hein but they are not SF.So how is this SF?

Secondly,are gurkhas on deputation or are they permanent?

No bhai! CDO is commando, there's only 1 commando battalion in SFF i.e archers,

Like, earlier the SF units used the suffix 'commando' instead of SF,

9para (SF) earlier 9 para (CDO).

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