Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Killbot]

Didn't MKU get orders for helmets which can prevent an AK 47 bullet? And they were like the ones being used by the soldier on the left?

That is a paratrooper helmet. Not ballistic rated.

 

[Killbot]

In the last 5 years, strike in Myanmar and POK. And SF are right now in eastern Ladakh, if they have done something or not that I don't know.
Bringing ops conducted by SF in public is a decision made by political leadership.
( A similar statement was given by Major vivek Jacob, I think, regarding info about SF ops, though am not sure about it)

Those weren't true SOF ops at all. Read pages 700 onwards, plenty of discussion on the same

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

That is a paratrooper helmet. Not ballistic rated.

Which one the one on left or right?

 

[Killbot]

Which one the one on left or right?

The big one. The other is MKU ACH

 

[ManhattanProject]

Looks like the paras have been shown some of the US sf equipment.
Not sure why they havent procured anything.

 

[Killbot]

Looks like the paras have been shown some of the US sf equipment.
Not sure why they havent procured anything.

View attachment 68363

They have. Not in large numbers. O

 

[ManhattanProject]

They have. Not in large numbers. O

the rifles should have been a no brainer, just get some highend ar15 from the American market. Instead they went for extremely expensive Scars.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Those weren't true SOF ops at all. Read pages 700 onwards, plenty of discussion on the same

Yes those were infantry level ops.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Those weren't true SOF ops at all. Read pages 700 onwards, plenty of discussion on the same

That is something I am not aware of whether they were SOF ops or not. I'd assume that the people who took the decision to use the SF had a better idea of what were the challenges/threats which the the SF would have dealt with in a better manner compared to infantry/ghataks who have previously carried out cross border raids.
This is what I felt, if you have some internal information then this might seem wrong.

 

[Killbot]

the rifles should have been a no brainer, just get some highend ar15 from the American market. Instead they went for extremely expensive Scars.

Yeah, I've been saying that. To fully accessorize a SCAR would cost $6000. $3500 for the gun (because of large nos), $1000 for optic, $1200 for LAM, $100 for light, $100 for foregrip. Same accessories with a Car-816 for $1200 would be $3500. Cost of only a SCAR. The money can be spent on Plate carrier ($250), radio ($500), COMTACs ($1000) and have some to spare.

 

[Killbot]

That is something I am not aware of whether they were SOF ops or not. I'd assume that the people who took the decision to use the SF had a better idea of what were the challenges/threats which the the SF would have dealt with in a better manner compared to infantry/ghataks who have previously carried out cross border raids.
This is what I felt, if you have some internal information then this might seem wrong.

Yeah, that is the point. The people who took that decision were infantry generals who have no idea of what SF are really supposed to be doing. Ghataks have carried out raids perfectly in the past. Most recently in 2017 and 2018.. Those were on a smaller scale, but that is their (Ghatak platoons') job. SF were not required at all. The only true Special Operation Para SF has conducted is Operation Khukri, way back in 2001, when there were only a few SF battalions and they were actually 'elite'.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Yeah, that is the point. The people who took that decision were infantry generals who have no idea of what SF are really supposed to be doing. Ghataks have carried out raids perfectly in the past. Most recently in 2017 and 2018.. Those were on a smaller scale, but that is their (Ghatak platoons') job. SF were not required at all. The only true Special Operation Para SF has conducted is Operation Khukri, way back in 2001, when there were only a few SF battalions and they were actually 'elite'.

How do you know that no senior officer (CO) or general of Special Forces wasn't taken on board while planning the operation?

 

[Killbot]

How do you know that no senior officer (CO) or general of Special Forces wasn't taken on board while planning the operation?

The COs of 4&9 Para SF planned the operation itself. The decision to use Para SF at all was taken by Northern Army Commander. Infantry general. That is what Lt.Gen. Prakash Katoch (ex 1 Para) had a problem with (and us). Read his writings on SF, it'll give you some clarity.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

The COs of 4&9 Para SF planned the operation itself. The decision to use Para SF at all was taken by Northern Army Commander. Infantry general. That is what Lt.Gen. Prakash Katoch (ex 1 Para) had a problem with (and us). Read his writings on SF, it'll give you some clarity.

The use of SF was suggested by Northern Army Commander or Army HQ?
If NAC took the decision, wouldn't he have consulted other generals and SF officers?

 

[Killbot]

The use of SF was suggested by Northern Army Commander or Army HQ?
If NAC took the decision, wouldn't he have consulted other generals and SF officers?

Well, he didn't.

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Well, he didn't.

How do you know?

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

The COs of 4&9 Para SF planned the operation itself. The decision to use Para SF at all was taken by Northern Army Commander. Infantry general. That is what Lt.Gen. Prakash Katoch (ex 1 Para) had a problem with (and us). Read his writings on SF, it'll give you some clarity.

Can you share which one in particular, cause what I read he was critizing the government and the media with the propaganda they did post all 3 strikes conducted during the present government. He was not happy with the fact that operational details were given in public, people involved were awarded publicly, unnecessary chest thumping by government. All to which I agree.
But he seems to agree with the fact that pakistan got an answer but at the tactical level.
Found this in an article by him

 

[Automatic Kalashnikov]

Can you share which one in particular, cause what I read he was critizing the government and the media with the propaganda they did post all 3 strikes conducted during the present government. He was not happy with the fact that operational details were given in public, people involved were awarded publicly, unnecessary chest thumping by government. All to which I agree.
But he seems to agree with the fact that pakistan got an answer but at the tactical level.
Found this in an article by himView attachment 68380View attachment 68380

Such actions are done by both ghataks as well as SF even in the past

 

[Killbot]

Can you share which one in particular, cause what I read he was critizing the government and the media with the propaganda they did post all 3 strikes conducted during the present government. He was not happy with the fact that operational details were given in public, people involved were awarded publicly, unnecessary chest thumping by government. All to which I agree.
But he seems to agree with the fact that pakistan got an answer but at the tactical level.
Found this in an article by himView attachment 68380View attachment 68380

Exactly. They were still elite back in the early 2000s. Before the mindless expansion. Read up on the raising of the Ikhwans in JK and PoK, and TSD. Something like TSD may or may not exist today, tho.

 

[Killbot]

Such actions are done by both ghataks as well as SF even in the past

He said 'deep' strikes specifically. Not 3km from the border. Deep, as in heart of PoK. And in one of his articles, he did say that Surgical Strikes didn't warrant use of SF...