Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Unknowncommando 2]

GARUD IAF Day

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG 26th SCG (Mumbai Regional Hub)

SIG MPX + Romeo Sight

H&K MP5-A5 + Element Angle Sight

 

[ArgonPrime]

Free country,

Clearly, you do not actually believe in that statement -

Lets stop labouring the point again and again because it is not helping.

Which shows, your clear intent to throttle others from sharing their perspective and pov.

can't stop anybody from daily randi rona and breaking of bangles.

Nor can we stop a literal retard from defecating his unfounded steaming pile of horse manure all over the place through his piehole, now can we??

Alternatively we can bring perspective, facts, opinions and news as well.

In case you have failed to take note, that's exactly what people have been doing before you came along with your utterly baseless excuses.

 

[rkhanna]

Clearly, you do not actually believe in that statement -
Which shows, your clear intent to throttle others from sharing their perspective and pov.

Nor can we stop a literal retard from defecating his unfounded steaming pile of horse manure all over the place through his piehole, now can we??

In case you have failed to take note, that's exactly what people have been doing before you came along with your utterly baseless excuses.

I think what aditya is trying to say is that we are now flogging a dead horse and going round in circles. Last 5-10 pages almost nothing new has been posted.

Which is fair enough. There are other aspects of Indian SOF we can discuss outside of 'what is wrong'.

 

[ArgonPrime]

I think what aditya is trying to say is that we are now flogging a dead horse and going round in circles. Last 5-10 pages almost nothing new has been posted.

Which is fair enough. There are other aspects of Indian SOF we can discuss outside of 'what is wrong'.

The problem with that approach is that the gear is an integral part of any SOF as it's directly linked with their training methods and thus taking a crucial role in the modes and ranges of operations they can or can not undertake. Therefore, you simply can not discuss the other aspects in a vacuum.

Now, if you want to discuss any particular op, then that's a different thing but more often than not, we don't get to see even most of the details, so then it all comes down to mere speculations.

 

[FalconSlayers]

The problem with that approach is the gear is an integral part of any SOF as it's directly linked with their training methods and even the modes and ranges of operations they can or can not undertake. therefore, you simply can not discuss the other aspects in a vacuum.

Now, if you want to discuss any particular op, then that's a different thing but more often than not, we don't get to see even most of the details, so then it all comes down to mere speculations.

Our SF has been used for CICT ops in Kashmir, blatant misuse of our strategic assets, our mindset is at tactical level and brainless approaches, Apache bought were given to IAF, and our SF is used for CICT ops, Even paki SSG used to kill strategically important terrorists in waziristan, if Para SF is tasked to covertly kill HVTerrorists then it will be a proper use.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Lets play Antakshiri of topics

 

[ArgonPrime]

Our SF has been used for CICT ops in Kashmir, blatant misuse of our strategic assets, our mindset is at tactical level and brainless approaches, Apache bought were given to IAF, and our SF is used for CICT ops, Even paki SSG used to kill strategically important terrorists in waziristan, if Para SF is tasked to covertly kill HVTerrorists then it will be a proper use.

Agree wholeheartedly. These operations should have been delegated to the RR and CRPF forces a long time ago and if the higher-ups think those forces aren't capable enough to deal with such situations, then they should have taken measures to bring them up to the mark. There is simply no excuse for what they are doing to our SOF operators.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The problem with that approach is that the gear is an integral part of any SOF as it's directly linked with their training methods and thus taking a crucial role in the modes and ranges of operations they can or can not undertake. Therefore, you simply can not discuss the other aspects in a vacuum.

Now, if you want to discuss any particular op, then that's a different thing but more often than not, we don't get to see even most of the details, so then it all comes down to mere speculations.

Without the gear and equipment discussion this thread will fall flat on its head.

Tech forums and Team bhp type forums survive on this.

 

[Killbot]

Firstly, MARCOS aren't that small. Neither them nor Garuds are trained well enough to be Tier one forces. Heck, one could argue that their training is on a lower level than what is expected of a Tier 2 force.

And coming to their roles, MARCOS are a Maritime SF unit, which means they are like SEALs and Garuds are primarily a CSAR (Combat Search and Rescue) or SEAD unit. And helicopter gunners and such. Rough equivalent in US would be USAF pararescue.

So, they aren't Tier 1 units. Tier 1 units are the guys who do short duration high intensity raids on HVTs, strategic enemy establishments, or conduct hostage rescue in very hostile territory. And intelligence gathering ops, Covert and deniable ops, etc.

Paras, Garuds and MARCOS do not have the capability to fulfill the above roles. Hence, they are supposed to be Tier 2 forces, but are abused by our all knowing jernails. Best leave it at that.

So, a new Tier 1 establishment has to be raised. With the equipment, training, budget, operational secrecy and backing of political leadership to conduct the kind of ops mentioned above.

The comparison of MARCOS to Para SF is unwarranted.

MARCOS are deployed around Wullar lake which is a marine environment, but Para SF can also play the role. Perhaps scene was different in 1990s but nowadays Para SF is trained for marine env as well. The prime reason is not water capability but its to provide operational experience to MARCOS. If you are deploying to J&K then you have to pass through the rigmorale of CBS, CIJWS and all other good courses of the military - that's all part of your training and grooming. Navy personnel will naturally not have any training on mountain warfare prior to deployment. Similarly Army SF train at Diving school kochi - so will you hold it against them for not coming in with that experience?

MARCOS are elite as they are selected from the diving cadre of the Navy. There is no single MARCOS school, unlike SFTS. Diving course is the first step and at that stage already 80-90% drop out rate is there.

The heart of the MARCOS competency is diving, demolition, surveillance and sabotage, obviously in a marine environment. They are other roles as well, such as being the first landing party of beach assault and CQB in ships and oil rigs. SHBO is also fundamental to their role thanks to Seaking commando variants. In fact MARCOS was the first unit who had access to a SF specific aviation unit - the Zappers. This was way before Army had its own SHBO assets. Even today IAF does not have any SF designated helicopter unit.

From a capability standpoint MARCOS have the ability to para-drop into the sea. This was considered for rescue of Abhilash Tommy. They operate Chariot SDVs which allows them to clandestinely infiltrate via sea. Both of these capabilities are not available to Para SF but does it mean Para SF is in any way inferior? Not at all. Similarly Trans-LC ops are bread and butter Para SF stuff and there is no way MARCOS can do those because they are are not trained and equipped for that.

MARCOS also maintain a detachment in creeks area of Gujarat. Does it mean they are any better or worse than Army?

Some pictures for evidence if it is required.

1. Para dropping:

View attachment 65508

2. Marksman at sea:

View attachment 65504

3. CQB on oil rig:

View attachment 65505

4. VBSS:

View attachment 65506

View attachment 65509

5. Emergency response at offshore installations

View attachment 65507

6. Deployment in Gujarat:

View attachment 65511

7. Counter-Hijack:

View attachment 65512

8. Beach assault pathfinder:

View attachment 65513

9. HALO para jump

View attachment 65514

@Killbot i could not respond to you earlier due to time commitment but i hope you learnt something today.

And these pictures tell me absolutely nothing. They are a VBSS and amphibious warfare force. I said that in a post that you 'contradicted'. You just confirmed that. So, they are, as their name suggests, a maritime commando unit. None of these pictures suggest otherwise.

If they don't have their school, that means they don't have enough funds for a school. If they were this ultra classified force that you make them out to be, then why don't they even have enough money for a school?

And aside from the seaborne stuff, everything they do on land can be done better by Para SF. So, they should stick to their role, which they do well, no doubt. Their role is maritime assymetric warfare.

On land, they cannot hope to do even what Ghatak commandos can. But they are better than any unit in India at sea.

 

[Rambo101]

Special forces gear are costly and is getting more expensive. if you want to arm 20k+ of these guys. price tag is upward of billion $ easily. Even arming whole para SF guys one time with most top of the line soldier gear alone will be massive.
it's all about priorities that's why army is buying from it's own money to equip small number of these unit's i think.
i was adding accessories to custom build FN SCAR 17S rifle ( western style SF grade , cool looking type... whatever you call it.) and cost alone crossed 13,000 USD with gun.
add to this 2000 USD extra for pistol + other accessories. 15000 USD total.

• for helmet and NVS ( add around 16000+ USD total ).

• plate carrier and tactical equipment will cost around 12000 USD, probably higher.

• SF first line Gear ( Crye G3 combat tops ) 2000 USD.

so a total of around 45,000 to 50,000 USD could be higher.

50k USD X 7000 Para SF = 350 million USD for one time gear alone. other goodies including ammo will make sure price cross 600 million USD + easily.

 

[Killbot]

Special forces gear are costly and is getting more expensive. if you want to arm 20k+ of these guys. price tag is upward of billion $ easily. Even arming whole para SF guys one time with most top of the line soldier gear alone will be massive.
it's all about priorities that's why army is buying from it's own money to equip small number of these unit's i think.
i was adding accessories to custom build FN SCAR 17S rifle ( western style SF grade , cool looking type... whatever you call it.) and cost alone crossed 13,000 USD with gun.
add to this 2000 USD extra for pistol + other accessories. 15000 USD total.

View attachment 65542

• for helmet and NVS ( add around 16000+ USD total ).

• plate carrier and tactical equipment will cost around 12000 USD, probably higher.

• SF first line Gear ( Crye G3 combat tops ) 2000 USD.

so a total of around 45,000 to 50,000 USD could be higher.

50k USD X 7000 Para SF = 350 million USD for one time gear alone. other goodies including ammo will make sure price cross 600 million USD + easily.

And $350M isn't that big a price to pay for equipping a strategic force.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Special forces gear are costly and is getting more expensive. if you want to arm 20k+ of these guys. price tag is upward of billion $ easily. Even arming whole para SF guys one time with most top of the line soldier gear alone will be massive.
it's all about priorities that's why army is buying from it's own money to equip small number of these unit's i think.
i was adding accessories to custom build FN SCAR 17S rifle ( western style SF grade , cool looking type... whatever you call it.) and cost alone crossed 13,000 USD with gun.
add to this 2000 USD extra for pistol + other accessories. 15000 USD total.

View attachment 65542

• for helmet and NVS ( add around 16000+ USD total ).

• plate carrier and tactical equipment will cost around 12000 USD, probably higher.

• SF first line Gear ( Crye G3 combat tops ) 2000 USD.

so a total of around 45,000 to 50,000 USD could be higher.

50k USD X 7000 Para SF = 350 million USD for one time gear alone. other goodies including ammo will make sure price cross 600 million USD + easily.

Do you know our defence budget is 3rd largest in the world? Special Forces are strategic assets like Nukes (Im not kidding), The day DEVGRU killed OBL, the whole Al Qaeda network got a big blow throughout the world.

What our SF Should do
1. Surgical Strikes
2. Cross border raids
3. Assassination of HVTs like...

What our SF is doing?
1. CICT in Kashmir
2. CICT in North East

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Thats the cost of 50 T 90 tanks?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Thats the cost of 50 T 90 tanks?

₹200 crores IMO

 

[FalconSlayers]

Do you know our defence budget is 3rd largest in the world? Special Forces are strategic assets like Nukes (Im not kidding), The day DEVGRU killed OBL, the whole Al Qaeda network got a big blow throughout the world.

What our SF Should do
1. Surgical Strikes
2. Cross border raids
3. Assassination of HVTs like...
View attachment 65549

What our SF is doing?
1. CICT in Kashmir
2. CICT in North East

I guess we are officially jokers I remember the Pathankot Incident, the Garuds whose primary task is to protect airbases failed to do so in Pathankot, coz they were lacking NVGs to fight the terrorists, both the terrorists and Garuds were equally equipped as the Red Dot sight on any rifle can’t be used in night easil. At the end NSG was called.

our SF can’t do their primary roles properly and we expect more from them?
Thats why I say, our forces are vintage minded, we don’t have a sniper school as sniper rifles are considered a formality to fulfil not A culture like NATO etc, NATO forces use the full potential of their snipers we don’t. Thats why we need modern minded People in Military like ACM RKS Bhadauria sahab. Basic SF equipment is missing for our SF and some people on DFI say that it is expensive? USA spends $17,500 on each of their Infantry soldier we spend less than 20% of this amount on our Special Forces, our SF should be equipped with all kinds of Quad, Mono, Bino type NVGs, Trijicon ACOGs, Reflex Sights, Thermal and IR sights, COMTACS, Lightweight boots and combat gloves, Modern Plate carriers and latest camouflage uniforms like MULTICAM Plus a dedicated air wing for SF.

We purchased High Cut ballistic Helmets but we are keeping them plain, no Camo, No Optic, No battery, No COMTACS nothing attached but we are buying them to look modern, our SF units are a joke in terms of equipment and training As our SF guys are not even trained like SF I mean how can you give SF training without equipments required for an SF. Its commando training not SF training.

Our SF guys rarely use Combat Gloves and ballistic helmets, fuck our Para SF still uses BP Patka.

Our SF lack even proper small arms, in the Name of DMR our SF uses Galatz and Dragunov, no doubt deadly platforms, but you need more in number and superior in tech, all other SF have all gucci equipment from TI/IR Sniper scopes to NVG Sniper scopes etc, our SF needs to be modelled upon the NATO forces this old vintage ideology is eating us.

 

[12arya]

Pay no heed. These 'enthusiasts' are virgins who have nothing better to do than Google ToP 10 BeSt SpeCiAl FoRcEs, unaware that the people who write them are also virgins with an inferiority complex the size of an elephant's balls..

I don't know y people r so hypersensitive. We r not calling their dads incompetent or something!

I tried on YouTube. But, like you said, they are fanboys.

Replies were MarCoS UlTrA cLasSifIEd, NaMbA WaN BeSt blah blah blah. It was almost as bad as replies on Pork DF.

Ya, I have seen this kind of response only from pakis! They r that bad. I mean who values these ranking videos anyway.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Posting necessary equipment that our SF needs it includes all even the ones currently in use.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Posting necessary equipment that our SF needs it includes all even the ones currently in use.
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