Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Challenger007]

[QUOTE="rkhanna, post: 1795114, member: 15193]

New kit is not plug and play

That is why a sane person knows it will take years for Indian SF to be there.

The gap.. procurement..trianing .

We are lagging as we talk.
[/QUOTE]
It seems to me that the slower development of a certain sphere in the country is due not only to economic or religious factors, but primarily culture and preferences. If India is characterized by dramatic musical films, colorful but not very realistic, then science fiction is something atypical. Science fiction is popular all over the world though.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

I hear that these Ghatak chaps have trashed the MARCOS in CIJWS and HAWS during training sessions on multiple occasions. Is there any truth to it??

I remember reading about US Special Forces that Army SF have been Infantrymen before, so in case the mission goes south and they end up being surprised by the enemy, they can always rely on that infantry training. Navy SF don't have that capability to switch to Infantry-style fighting.

Maybe this has something to do with the "trashing" you are talking about?

I don't exactly understand why, though. As I understand it, any SF should be well-versed in Infantry Minor tactics. SF do tend to be trained more for raids and capitalizing on element of surprise, instead of pitched battles which the Infantry excels at, but I still don't see why the Navy SF would perform particularly poorly.

It seems to me that the slower development of a certain sphere in the country is due not only to economic or religious factors, but primarily culture and preferences. If India is characterized by dramatic musical films, colorful but not very realistic, then science fiction is something atypical. Science fiction is popular all over the world though.

Please try not to rely on such anecdotes. The real reason is a chronic lack of any political will to use military as an option in foreign policy. Could be due to a whole host of factors: diplomats having more say than they should, the civil control (interference) in Indian military, lack of balls in most politicians, foreign pressure, nuclear overhang scaring babus, disinterest and stupid turf wars in Army top brass, etc.
Its only Modi who has utilized SF the way they should be. And that too only a couple of times.

 

[Killbot]

I hear that these Ghatak chaps have trashed the MARCOS in CIJWS and HAWS during training sessions on multiple occasions. Is there any truth to it??

Probably. Ghataks do all the stuff, from room clearing to checking infiltration in Kashmir. MARCOS don't do even as much. They are attached to RR units where they do the same stuff as infantry grunts.

 

[Killbot]

You talking about TacC3I?

Yes. Though I'm not very familiar with it.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Yes. Though I'm not very familiar with it.

You should read stuff written by Lt Gen Katoch (Retd.).
He has been crying hoarse about how TacC3I is lying dead since 2004 due to the turf war between DG Signals and DG IS. TacC3I had various subsystems including Battlefield Surveillance System (BSS), Battlefield Mangement System (BMS), Artillery Command, Control and Communications System (ACCCS) and Combat Information and Decision Support System (CIDSS).
Out of all these systems, only ACCCS has seen successful deployment as the ACCCS-Shakti. Everything else failed. Although now that the DG IS - DG Signals problem has been resolved by Gen Rawat, we might see revival of this project. BMS did include tactical comms. for the Special Forces as well as Infantry. So we might see ComTacs, etc by 2026-27.

 

[rkhanna]

Army is working on that ig. A single encrypted network. Not sure abt sf

Nope army network is effectively dead. There is talk of merging the AF network into IA . But lol

 

[Killbot]

You should read stuff written by Lt Gen Katoch (Retd.).
He has been crying hoarse about how TacC3I is lying dead since 2004 due to the turf war between DG Signals and DG IS. TacC3I had various subsystems including Battlefield Surveillance System (BSS), Battlefield Mangement System (BMS), Artillery Command, Control and Communications System (ACCCS) and Combat Information and Decision Support System (CIDSS).
Out of all these systems, only ACCCS has seen successful deployment as the ACCCS-Shakti. Everything else failed. Although now that the DG IS - DG Signals problem has been resolved by Gen Rawat, we might see revival of this project. BMS did include tactical comms. for the Special Forces as well as Infantry. So we might see ComTacs, etc by 2026-27.

Yup, I read those articles. That is how I found out we had some semblance of a BMS program. Thay are trying to implement something similar now, 16 years later.

Also, what system do SFs use for comms now?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Nope army network is effectively dead. There is talk of merging the AF network into IA . But lol

You talking about Armed Forces Net (AFN)? Merging AFNet with AWAN?

Also, what system do SFs use for comms now?

No idea.

 

[rkhanna]

Yup, I read those articles. That is how I found out we had some semblance of a BMS program. Thay are trying to implement something similar now, 16 years later.

Also, what system do SFs use for comms now?

Won't talk about current comms on open forum.

BUT in Sri Lanka we got our asses handed to us because both the Opfor and partner force had better comms than us AND our comms were compromised.

We have learnt nothing.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Effect of watching too many Hollywood war flicks involving those damn 'Mar-hins'!!





I hear that these Ghatak chaps have trashed the MARCOS in CIJWS and HAWS during training sessions on multiple occasions. Is there any truth to it??

Garuds ..i would say until 2012 i kept hearing from my friends in Infantry that they were average.

These guys met them in Corps battle school.They were regulars non Ghataks.

As far as Marcos is concerned they have a very basic to nil knowledge of jungle and mountain warfare.

So they are coming to CBS as beginners just like a 19 years old infantry soldier.

I am harsh in my comment but we also have to see that Garuds and Marcos have no training schools to prepare for Kashmir.

They lack basic infra to be a all terrain force like Paras.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I remember reading about US Special Forces that Army SF have been Infantrymen before, so in case the mission goes south and they end up being surprised by the enemy, they can always rely on that infantry training. Navy SF don't have that capability to switch to Infantry-style fighting.

Maybe this has something to do with the "trashing" you are talking about?

I don't exactly understand why, though. As I understand it, any SF should be well-versed in Infantry Minor tactics. SF do tend to be trained more for raids and capitalizing on element of surprise, instead of pitched battles which the Infantry excels at, but I still don't see why the Navy SF would perform particularly poorly.


Please try not to rely on such anecdotes. The real reason is a chronic lack of any political will to use military as an option in foreign policy. Could be due to a whole host of factors: diplomats having more say than they should, the civil control (interference) in Indian military, lack of balls in most politicians, foreign pressure, nuclear overhang scaring babus, disinterest and stupid turf wars in Army top brass, etc.
Its only Modi who has utilized SF the way they should be. And that too only a couple of times.

Bro basics of Infanty is basics of SF.

What according to you happens in SF training that is different from Infantry training.

If you could prove even 70% difference i would take back my argument.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Bro basics of Infanty is basics of SF.

What according to you happens in SF training that is different from Infantry training.

If you could prove even 70% difference i would take back my argument.

I agree with you. I was just sharing something I read in an article.

 

[Rambo101]

Please try not to rely on such anecdotes. The real reason is a chronic lack of any political will to use military as an option in foreign policy. Could be due to a whole host of factors: diplomats having more say than they should, the civil control (interference) in Indian military, lack of balls in most politicians, foreign pressure, nuclear overhang scaring babus, disinterest and stupid turf wars in Army top brass, etc.
Its only Modi who has utilized SF the way they should be. And that too only a couple of times.

well he does speak some truth. Culture , food , discipline , scientific + military culture play a massive role in how society will function or deliver in present as well as in future. When you make a veggie simp like gandhi as your god along with a political bhadrloke Anglophiled elite , whose only purpose is to hold on to power hook or crook , you are a done deal. You will get a week philosophers looser class who will raise there hands up at first instance of trouble and will run to US , UK , Europe in no time ( many already have there children's settled abroad ). In india they all belong to a particular community.
This system only create a society of emotional simps with emotion outbursts nothing else. india military till date does not have a sophisticated propaganda department , politicians and there tattu's have. Even Pakistan has within india lol. Well funded propaganda machinery running from west is massively active in india. military professionalism can be gauged by it's weapons procurement. It's look more like a zoo , talk about professionalism. Khud to kuch banana nahi , bongiyaan marni hai.

 

[ManhattanProject]

well he does speak some truth. Culture , food , discipline , scientific + military culture play a massive role in how society will function or deliver in present as well as in future. When you make a veggie simp like gandhi as your god along with a political bhadrloke Anglophiled elite , whose only purpose is to hold on to power hook or crook , you are a done deal. You will get a week philosophers looser class who will raise there hands up at first instance of trouble and will run to US , UK , Europe in no time ( many already have there children's settled abroad ). In india they all belong to a particular community.
This system only create a society of emotional simps with emotion outbursts nothing else. india military till date does not have a sophisticated propaganda department , politicians and there tattu's have. Even Pakistan has within india lol. Well funded propaganda machinery running from west is massively active in india. military professionalism can be gauged by it's weapons procurement. It's look more like a zoo , talk about professionalism. Khud to kuch banana nahi , bongiyaan marni hai.

i thought this was the special forces thread?

 

[Rambo101]

i thought this was the special forces thread?

Yes and we are discussing why probably even underwear of these special forces are imported from abroad till today.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

well he does speak some truth. Culture , food , discipline , scientific + military culture play a massive role in how society will function or deliver in present as well as in future. When you make a veggie simp like gandhi as your god along with a political bhadrloke Anglophiled elite , whose only purpose is to hold on to power hook or crook , you are a done deal. You will get a week philosophers looser class who will raise there hands up at first instance of trouble and will run to US , UK , Europe in no time ( many already have there children's settled abroad ). In india they all belong to a particular community.
This system only create a society of emotional simps with emotion outbursts nothing else. india military till date does not have a sophisticated propaganda department , politicians and there tattu's have. Even Pakistan has within india lol. Well funded propaganda machinery running from west is massively active in india. military professionalism can be gauged by it's weapons procurement. It's look more like a zoo , talk about professionalism. Khud to kuch banana nahi , bongiyaan marni hai.

Take this pseudo science to the other threads.

 

[12arya]

Probably. Ghataks do all the stuff, from room clearing to checking infiltration in Kashmir. MARCOS don't do even as much. They are attached to RR units where they do the same stuff as infantry grunts.

Will u or @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR go to quora and tell the MARCOS fanboys this!

On quora, they claim that MARCOS r so superior to army sf, they work only with RAW and SG(as far as I have read SG is full of army sf guys). And when asked y they have so fewer medals when compared to army SF, the reply is MARCOS ops r so secretive in nature they r not given medals!!!!

These r the same people who give out so many crap "info" abt SF and probably does these stupid ranking videos. U can't even argue with this grp coz they r unbelievably close-minded to any criticism or refuse to accept facts or info or simply learn.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Will u or @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR go to quora and tell the MARCOS fanboys this!

On quora, they claim that MARCOS r so superior to army sf, they work only with RAW and SG(as far as I have read SG is full of army sf guys). And when asked y they have so fewer medals when compared to army SF, the reply is MARCOS ops r so secretive in nature they r not given medals!!!!

These r the same people who give out so many crap "info" abt SF and probably does these stupid ranking videos. U can't even argue with this grp coz they r unbelievably close-minded to any criticism or refuse to accept facts or info or simply learn.

Haha

I invite any Marcos fanboy to come to this thread and last 2 posts by me.

 

[12arya]

You should read stuff written by Lt Gen Katoch (Retd.).
He has been crying hoarse about how TacC3I is lying dead since 2004 due to the turf war between DG Signals and DG IS. TacC3I had various subsystems including Battlefield Surveillance System (BSS), Battlefield Mangement System (BMS), Artillery Command, Control and Communications System (ACCCS) and Combat Information and Decision Support System (CIDSS).
Out of all these systems, only ACCCS has seen successful deployment as the ACCCS-Shakti. Everything else failed. Although now that the DG IS - DG Signals problem has been resolved by Gen Rawat, we might see revival of this project. BMS did include tactical comms. for the Special Forces as well as Infantry. So we might see ComTacs, etc by 2026-27.

At times, I feel bad for lt. gen. pc katoch and lt. gen. hardy lidder.

These 2 men have screaming abt all the stuff that has been discussed to death on this thread, since time immemorial. They have shaken Kailasa itself to make the deaf higher-ups listen to the needs of SF yet this continues!
Yet these 2 guys just don't give up, true to their SF backgrounds, and keep on raising these issues on every single platform out there.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

At times, I feel bad for lt. gen. pc katoch and lt. gen. hardy lidder.

These 2 men have screaming abt all the stuff that has been discussed to death on this thread, since time immemorial. They have shaken Kailasa itself to make the deaf higher-ups listen to the needs of SF yet this continues!
Yet these 2 guys just don't give up, true to their SF backgrounds, and keep on raising these issues on every single platform out there.

Gen Katoch is too aware for a sf officer.

I have not seen any interview involving any officer of the Indian Army where i have been truly impressed by the intelligence of a person.

He is exceptional in some things he suggests.

Even the SF colonels and majors are far far far away to get to what he talks about.

These instagram interviews are the evidence.