Indian Special Forces (archived)

[12arya]

Haha

I invite any Marcos fanboy to come to this thread and last 2 posts by me.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View attachment 65479

This is a childish post.

Rejection rate is high coz you are choosing from sailors not infantrymen.

Infantrymen are tough as nails with all due respect to sailors.

Who are you rejecting..someone who spent 3 years at the LOC conducting raids or maybe an ex NSG?

What does a sailor have compared to that?

That arguement falls flat!!!

Coming to the best trained...Look simple thing if you have infra to train you are trained well.

Which school does Marcos have for Mountain warfare?..High altitude warfare and Desert warfare? What is the name of sniper school?

The logo of this argument says...Trained by the Army and claim to be better than them.

Last argument...VBSS and amphiious warfare.

Thats your bread and butter.Why would the Para do that?

Para are already over burdened withs ops.

If this is what they will do then the Marcos may well sit at home.

 

[12arya]

This is a childish post.

Rejection rate is high coz you are choosing from sailors not infantrymen.

Infantrymen are tough as nails with all due respect to sailors.

Who are you rejecting..someone who spent 3 years at the LOC conducting raids or maybe an ex NSG?

What does a sailor have compared to that?

That arguement falls flat!!!

Coming to the best trained...Look simple thing if you have infra to train you are trained well.

Which school does Marcos have for Mountain warfare?..High altitude warfare and Desert warfare? What is the name of sniper school?

The logo of this argument says...Trained by the Army and claim to be better than them.

Last argument...VBSS and amphiious warfare.

Thats your bread and butter.Why would the Para do that?

Para are already over burdened withs ops.

If this is what they will do then the Marcos may well sit at home.

this is not just his post...the general line abt MARCOS is their training is wayyyy harder than army SF! actually on every single post on marcos they mention this. and i find this argument unbelievable.

also, what brig. shekhawat did in NE shud be ideally a MARCOS op na? yet 21 did it so perfectly, the entire op was wrapped up in 4 minutes!

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

this is not just his post...the general line abt MARCOS is their training is wayyyy harder than army SF! actually on every single post on marcos they mention this. and i find this argument unbelievable.

also, what brig. shekhawat did in NE shud be ideally a MARCOS op na? yet 21 did it so perfectly, the entire op was wrapped up in 4 minutes!

Training is harder as per them yet 95% of the force doesnt have any kills.

The SS team was awarded..no awards for Marcos?

The disclosed ops of Marcos are basic RR ops and thats what they are under in Kashmir.

In kashmir the most dangerous ops are loc raids,Hafruda and Lolab ops which lasts weeks and undercover ops for which Para sf has been awarded openly like picking up terrorists from funeral etc.

Ok tell me one thing if Marcos is so dangerous why werent Marcos called for the operation in which Capt Pawan got matyred along with Capt Tushar?

It was a classic CQB for which Marcos are trained and that too very close to Srinagar where Marcos are deployed.

Regarding NE...wet dreams.

Those ops are after you pass in CIJWS.

Marcos has been in Kashmir for more than 25 years yet to deployment on loc and people say oh they are working inside Myanmar.

Cmon man...thats not how it works.

 

[FalconSlayers]

They use AN/PEQ-2. Its from the early 2000s and is being replaced by PEQ 15s in western countries. But PEQ 2 isn't obsolete by any means. On Tavors, the ITL Mars and Mepro MOR reflex sights come with integral visible and IR lasers. But I'd like to see them use IR illuminators and normal flashlights on their guns. And cans.

India locally manufactures MEPRO STING by the way

 

[mupper]

That figure is after you combine all the their
Tier 1,2,3
Tier 1

• DELTA Force (1st Special Forces Operational Delta) – U.S. Army
• DEVGRU (Naval Special Warfare Development Group, Seal Team Six) – U.S. Navy
• 24th Special Tactics Squadron – U.S. Air Force
• Intelligence Support Activity (ISA) – CIA

Tier 2 Units

• Navy SEALs – U.S. Navy
• Marine Raiders – U.S. Marine Corps
• Marine Force Recon – U.S. Marine Corps
• Combat Controllers – U.S. Air Force
• Rangers – U.S. Army
• Special Forces – U.S. Army
• Asymmetric Warfare Group – U.S. Army

Tier 3 Units

• US Army’s 10th Mountain Division
• 82nd Airborne Division
• 101st Airborne Division
• Marine Corps Recon Battalions
• Force Recon Companies
• MEU(SOC)
• Navy Riverines
• Air Force 142d Fighter Wing
• 147th Reconnaissance Wing

That list is old and weird, there is no such thing in the US budget lines as a "tier 3". "Tier" whatever is a term I don't like or agree with and is at this stage a marketing term for video games and retired pipe hitters to flog training courses and Tshirts to civilians...
I prefer the more accurate SMU-SF-NSW-ST-SR for each.

Anyway that"Tier 1" (God help me) unit list aka SMU's is missing the newest unit the RRC, which is now full time in JSOC, the 75th RR has raised a new recon unti to replace it in house...The RRC is not coming back home.
There is also supposedly a SMU being raised from MARSOC, but nothing solid on that.

Onto "Tier 2" Neither Force recon or "combat controllers" are that...
Also the AWG no longer exists, and was never a war fighting unit to begin with.

That "Tier 3" is a thing I guess, not a real one but still it's a list.

 

[ALBY]

Wanna know how USSOCOM and in particular Delta Force works?? Then look at this movie!!
Harrison Ford in Tom Clancy movies or Tom Clancy movies in 90s in general is a blast in general! I was mind blown watching this movie!
View attachment 65186

Why did u even created the world SF thread in the first place? .Please stop sharing unrelated stuff or or unrelated stuff from foreign SFs without any context.

 

[FalconSlayers]

There should be a dedicated sniper school, we have kept our military but never tried to give them as much combat experience as possible, MARCOS don’t even have basic AR Pattern Assault Rifles which to date is considered backbone of any SF, heck even Russian Special Forces use AR Pattern Assault Rifles in decent numbers along with advanced and latest Kalashnikovs. I know I may sound childish but the reason why Russia, NATO etc love to get into engagements is because it makes their military battle hardened. COBRA commandos are considered the best Snipers of India and this statement shows that the Military SF are not getting proper Sniper training, we should open one and give our enemies a bloody nose with these snipers as a well trained Sniper like Shaheed Rifleman Mohammed Arif Shaji Alam Khan Pathan who knocked out 30 Paki soldiers on LoC within a month later got martyred in a CICT op near the LoC against the infiltrating terrorist pigs.

We can give heavy casualties to pakis everyday with highly trained snipers, I don’t know why Indian Army still is vintage minded and not modern one, they are planning 6000 snipers only which should be atleast 10-12 thousand (Including modern semi-auto DMRs) and a dedicated sniper training school, we should adopt a proper sniper culture in Indian Military which is sadly considered as a formality.

 

[mupper]

There should be a dedicated sniper school

That reminds me, there was an Indian officer (I'm not sure if military or LE, sorry) who attended the Irish Army Rangers counter terrorist sniper course a couple of years back. It's a pretty selective course to get on to so someone in India knew of it and worked the phones to get him in there.

 

[Killbot]

Will u or @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR go to quora and tell the MARCOS fanboys this!

On quora, they claim that MARCOS r so superior to army sf, they work only with RAW and SG(as far as I have read SG is full of army sf guys). And when asked y they have so fewer medals when compared to army SF, the reply is MARCOS ops r so secretive in nature they r not given medals!!!!

These r the same people who give out so many crap "info" abt SF and probably does these stupid ranking videos. U can't even argue with this grp coz they r unbelievably close-minded to any criticism or refuse to accept facts or info or simply learn.

I tried on YouTube. But, like you said, they are fanboys.

Replies were MarCoS UlTrA cLasSifIEd, NaMbA WaN BeSt blah blah blah. It was almost as bad as replies on Pork DF.

 

[Killbot]

this is not just his post...the general line abt MARCOS is their training is wayyyy harder than army SF! actually on every single post on marcos they mention this. and i find this argument unbelievable.

also, what brig. shekhawat did in NE shud be ideally a MARCOS op na? yet 21 did it so perfectly, the entire op was wrapped up in 4 minutes!

Pay no heed. These 'enthusiasts' are virgins who have nothing better to do than Google ToP 10 BeSt SpeCiAl FoRcEs, unaware that the people who write them are also virgins with an inferiority complex the size of an elephant's balls..

 

[Killbot]

That list is old and weird, there is no such thing in the US budget lines as a "tier 3". "Tier" whatever is a term I don't like or agree with and is at this stage a marketing term for video games and retired pipe hitters to flog training courses and Tshirts to civilians...
I prefer the more accurate SMU-SF-NSW-ST-SR for each.

Anyway that"Tier 1" (God help me) unit list aka SMU's is missing the newest unit the RRC, which is now full time in JSOC, the 75th RR has raised a new recon unti to replace it in house...The RRC is not coming back home.
There is also supposedly a SMU being raised from MARSOC, but nothing solid on that.

Onto "Tier 2" Neither Force recon or "combat controllers" are that...
Also the AWG no longer exists, and was never a war fighting unit to begin with.

That "Tier 3" is a thing I guess, not a real one but still it's a list.

Yeah, that 'Tier 1,2' thing is misleading.

So a tier one is an SMU (Special Mission Unit) which conducts high intensity short duration ops on HVTs or gathers intelligence. Operations of strategic importance.

Tier two are other Unconventional warfare, asymmetric warfare and psychological operations unit.

Tier three doesn't exist.

So, this tier thing has to do with the roles of each unit. The guys deployed full time on the ground are the so called 'tier two' units. The guys who are in JSOC HQ and can be deployed anytime are 'tier one'. It is not measure of dick size or who is better. Both are important and just as required. So the nomenclature is flawed. And it also works in amreeki context. Not ours.

 

[Killbot]

India locally manufactures MEPRO STING by the way
View attachment 65482

That is good. How much do these cost?

 

[FalconSlayers]

That is good. How much do these cost?

I don’t know but I didn’t knew what all we actually produce in India in terms of defence you might remember we were talking of giving our infantry some basic magnified optics like USA and NATO have the Trijicon ACOG 4x as standard issue Infantry Optic whereas I was talking for Prism ACSS 3X as standard issue for India but we would have had to import those but I later got to Know that we are already manufacturing MEPRO X4 4x magnification optic in India which our forces are not ordering, heck we are in fact manufacturing DAN .338 Sniper Rifles in India just check these two links to know what we are already making but sadly no attention is being given to them.
1. http://plrsystem.in/products/products.html
2. http://plrsystem.in/accessories/accessories.html

 

[aditya g]

The comparison of MARCOS to Para SF is unwarranted.

MARCOS are deployed around Wullar lake which is a marine environment, but Para SF can also play the role. Perhaps scene was different in 1990s but nowadays Para SF is trained for marine env as well. The prime reason is not water capability but its to provide operational experience to MARCOS. If you are deploying to J&K then you have to pass through the rigmorale of CBS, CIJWS and all other good courses of the military - that's all part of your training and grooming. Navy personnel will naturally not have any training on mountain warfare prior to deployment. Similarly Army SF train at Diving school kochi - so will you hold it against them for not coming in with that experience?

MARCOS are elite as they are selected from the diving cadre of the Navy. There is no single MARCOS school, unlike SFTS. Diving course is the first step and at that stage already 80-90% drop out rate is there.

The heart of the MARCOS competency is diving, demolition, surveillance and sabotage, obviously in a marine environment. They are other roles as well, such as being the first landing party of beach assault and CQB in ships and oil rigs. SHBO is also fundamental to their role thanks to Seaking commando variants. In fact MARCOS was the first unit who had access to a SF specific aviation unit - the Zappers. This was way before Army had its own SHBO assets. Even today IAF does not have any SF designated helicopter unit.

From a capability standpoint MARCOS have the ability to para-drop into the sea. This was considered for rescue of Abhilash Tommy. They operate Chariot SDVs which allows them to clandestinely infiltrate via sea. Both of these capabilities are not available to Para SF but does it mean Para SF is in any way inferior? Not at all. Similarly Trans-LC ops are bread and butter Para SF stuff and there is no way MARCOS can do those because they are are not trained and equipped for that.

MARCOS also maintain a detachment in creeks area of Gujarat. Does it mean they are any better or worse than Army?

Some pictures for evidence if it is required.

1. Para dropping:

2. Marksman at sea:

3. CQB on oil rig:

4. VBSS:

5. Emergency response at offshore installations

6. Deployment in Gujarat:

7. Counter-Hijack:

8. Beach assault pathfinder:

9. HALO para jump

@Killbot i could not respond to you earlier due to time commitment but i hope you learnt something today.

 

[aditya g]

I am quoting my own post from earlier - have a look;

There were comments made about how inactive MARCOS was in ops. Everybody's free to have an opinion but at same time we need to be open to facts and learn. For a such a small unit of men selected from diving branch (already an elite bunch), they are heavily involved in operations especially since 2008;

- Counter Piracy ops in Gulf of Aden.
- Op Rahat - Yemen
- Op Sankalp
- CI/CT detachment in J&K
- Op Cyclone (26/11)
- Capture of Dubai princess

Earlier this week there was an Op by SBS in English waters where they had to board a freighter under hijack. Lot of media coverage about it. Our boys hardly got any coverage for ops like this (seizure of MV Nafis - 2011):

View attachment 64730

Some more pictures:

10. sea drop via helicopter:

11. Chariot - this is an awesome capability which IN has since 1980

12. riverine ops

All I keep seeing in the forum off late is a lot of complaints around operator level equipment (NODs, comm sets etc). These are ofcourse very important but the SF capability is much more than this equipment. Lets stop labouring the point again and again because it is not helping.

 

[ArgonPrime]

All I keep seeing in the forum off late is a lot of complaints around operator level equipment (NODs, comm sets etc). These are ofcourse very important but the SF capability is much more than this equipment. Lets stop labouring the point again and again because it is not helping.

So what would you rather have us do instead?? Kyaa bhajan karna shuru kar de abhi yeha pe??

 

[aditya g]

So what would you rather have us do instead?? Kyaa bhajan karna shuru kar de abhi yeha pe??

Free country, can't stop anybody from daily randi rona and breaking of bangles.

Alternatively we can bring perspective, facts, opinions and news as well.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

Pay no heed. These 'enthusiasts' are virgins who have nothing better to do than Google ToP 10 BeSt SpeCiAl FoRcEs, unaware that the people who write them are also virgins with an inferiority complex the size of an elephant's balls..

Marcos is a cooler sounding name than Para SF. Which let's face it, is the epitome of low creativity but that's okay.

But that's about it.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I am quoting my own post from earlier - have a look;



Some more pictures:

10. sea drop via helicopter:

View attachment 65516

View attachment 65517

11. Chariot - this is an awesome capability which IN has since 1980

View attachment 65518

12. riverine ops

View attachment 65519

All I keep seeing in the forum off late is a lot of complaints around operator level equipment (NODs, comm sets etc). These are ofcourse very important but the SF capability is much more than this equipment. Lets stop labouring the point again and again because it is not helping.

Ok bro this i wanna take up for a debate.

You said..SF capabilities are more than the equipment right..tell me how

Do we have Patanjali churan for Night sights?

Or like Mahabharat is sanjay going to get Bluetooth access of battlefield feed to HQ?

Also please tell us without secure coms...which devta will prakat on the battlefield to save us from the rakshasha.

You my friend not getting a basic point about technical things which is..

Aquire..train..perform.

Iphone 12 nhi he ki uthaya aur use kar lia.

If your force is night blind and lacks proper com which SF capabilities can you show my friend except running 100 kms or drinking like a pro?

Think about it.