Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Phantom sierra]

Firstly, MARCOS aren't that small. Neither them nor Garuds are trained well enough to be Tier one forces. Heck, one could argue that their training is on a lower level than what is expected of a Tier 2 force.

And coming to their roles, MARCOS are a Maritime SF unit, which means they are like SEALs and Garuds are primarily a CSAR (Combat Search and Rescue) or SEAD unit. And helicopter gunners and such. Rough equivalent in US would be USAF pararescue.

So, they aren't Tier 1 units. Tier 1 units are the guys who do short duration high intensity raids on HVTs, strategic enemy establishments, or conduct hostage rescue in very hostile territory. And intelligence gathering ops, Covert and deniable ops, etc.

Paras, Garuds and MARCOS do not have the capability to fulfill the above roles. Hence, they are supposed to be Tier 2 forces, but are abused by our all knowing jernails. Best leave it at that.

So, a new Tier 1 establishment has to be raised. With the equipment, training, budget, operational secrecy and backing of political leadership to conduct the kind of ops mentioned above.

Wouldn't SG be counted as a tier 1 unit

 

[Killbot]

what if the enemy targets those granades directly??

Firstly, that is a photo op. They probably wouldn't use grenades at all for the most part, and if they did use them, they would not hang them like that.

Secondly, grenades require a chemical reaction to go bang. So even if they were hit by a bullet, they would most likely not explode.

 

[Killbot]

Wouldn't SG be counted as a tier 1 unit

SG is not a military unit at all. They are an intelligence unit. They don't do raids and stuff. They're like military trained research officers (RAW fields operator, equivalent to CIA case officer..). But don't quote me on this, I don't know much about them. Perhaps @rkhanna or @armyofcan help you there.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Firstly, MARCOS aren't that small. Neither them nor Garuds are trained well enough to be Tier one forces. Heck, one could argue that their training is on a lower level than what is expected of a Tier 2 force.

And coming to their roles, MARCOS are a Maritime SF unit, which means they are like SEALs and Garuds are primarily a CSAR (Combat Search and Rescue) or SEAD unit. And helicopter gunners and such. Rough equivalent in US would be USAF pararescue.

So, they aren't Tier 1 units. Tier 1 units are the guys who do short duration high intensity raids on HVTs, strategic enemy establishments, or conduct hostage rescue in very hostile territory. And intelligence gathering ops, Covert and deniable ops, etc.

Paras, Garuds and MARCOS do not have the capability to fulfill the above roles. Hence, they are supposed to be Tier 2 forces, but are abused by our all knowing jernails. Best leave it at that.

So, a new Tier 1 establishment has to be raised. With the equipment, training, budget, operational secrecy and backing of political leadership to conduct the kind of ops mentioned above.

Yes, but what I meant was the personnel for the Tier-1 operators are extracted for the existing Para SF, Marcos and Garuds, right??
By smaller manpower in Marcos and Garuds I meant, they don't have enough manpower compared to US seals and USAF special operations command!!

 

[Killbot]

Yes, but what I meant was the personnel for the Tier-1 operators are extracted for the existing Para SF, Marcos and Garuds, right??
By smaller manpower in Marcos and Garuds I meant, they don't have enough manpower compared to US seals and USAF special operations command!!

In that case, most personnel will be from Army.
And even in the US, Devgru Assaulters (Ground guys, recruited from SEALs) number in the 300s the other 1000 or so are support staff. If there is a unified support staff for Army, navy and AF Tier 1 units (National Ops Division, as envisioned by Lt Gen PC Katoch), then picking up a few hundred operators from each branch should suffice.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

In that case, most personnel will be from Army.
And even in the US, Devgru Assaulters (Ground guys, recruited from SEALs) number in the 300s the other 1000 or so are support staff. If there is a unified support staff for Army, navy and AF Tier 1 units (National Ops Division, as envisioned by Lt Gen PC Katoch), then picking up a few hundred operators from each branch should suffice.

Good thing is that we have enough manpower in Indian Military!! Only thing we should concentrate is the quality of training and structural improvement!!

 

[ManhattanProject]

what if the enemy targets those granades directly??

what kind of question is that?
i dont want to insult you but what you said is stupid.
this is not a bollywood movie.

 

[Spindrift]

what if the enemy targets those granades directly??

nothing will happen. A grenade is set off by a detonator and not by firing bullets at it.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

what kind of question is that?
i dont want to insult you but what you said is stupid.
this is not a bollywood movie.

Wait was that question serious?? I thought it was a typo or something!!

 

[aditya g]

....
And coming to their roles, MARCOS are a Maritime SF unit, which means they are like SEALs and Garuds are primarily a CSAR (Combat Search and Rescue) or SEAD unit. And helicopter gunners and such. Rough equivalent in US would be USAF pararescue.

....

Sorry to say but your perception and reality have 0 connection.

 

[aditya g]

SG is not a military unit at all. They are an intelligence unit. They don't do raids and stuff. They're like military trained research officers (RAW fields operator, equivalent to CIA case officer..). But don't quote me on this, I don't know much about them. Perhaps @rkhanna or @armyofcan help you there.

If we don't know something then best keep quiet

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Considering we bought SOCOM kits so we might end up with good gucci equipment for our Special Forces but theres no mention for Comtacs Hope that MoD gets them coz our Special Forces are a joke.
View attachment 65151

Sandeep Unnithan has clarified before that the quadNODs in this image are representative and that he does not know if we are getting quadNODs or some other NODs.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Firstly, MARCOS aren't that small. Neither them nor Garuds are trained well enough to be Tier one forces. Heck, one could argue that their training is on a lower level than what is expected of a Tier 2 force.

And coming to their roles, MARCOS are a Maritime SF unit, which means they are like SEALs and Garuds are primarily a CSAR (Combat Search and Rescue) or SEAD unit. And helicopter gunners and such. Rough equivalent in US would be USAF pararescue.

So, they aren't Tier 1 units. Tier 1 units are the guys who do short duration high intensity raids on HVTs, strategic enemy establishments, or conduct hostage rescue in very hostile territory. And intelligence gathering ops, Covert and deniable ops, etc.

Paras, Garuds and MARCOS do not have the capability to fulfill the above roles. Hence, they are supposed to be Tier 2 forces, but are abused by our all knowing jernails. Best leave it at that.

So, a new Tier 1 establishment has to be raised. With the equipment, training, budget, operational secrecy and backing of political leadership to conduct the kind of ops mentioned above.

Unless you use your Tier 2 SF frequently enough for operations they are meant to be used for (Frequent surgical strikes, raids, etc), you can't develop enough experience for developing a Tier 1 unit like Delta.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

paki ssg, real equipment or just propaganda?

View attachment 65134

Dude looks like a tourist.
With an outfit like that, he'll get sniped by the first sniper who was just bored.

Edit: That said, Pakistani army equipment is a powerful motivator for the Indian army. In 2009 when the Sri Lankan cricketers were attacked, Pak fielded a helicopter. That helicopter caused ripples in the indian establishment in figuring out what the make was.
At the LOC, there was a decent amount of time where Pak soldiers looked better kitted (they always had better uniform, but I am talking equipment), ballistic vests, proper helmets and NVG. Our boys looked sad. But now the scenario is reversed. Our boys are wielding mod AKs, SIGs, Arjun sights, High cuts and all that, and look better kitted than the bastards.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

The day SSG starts showing off COMTACS and high cuts and modern comms, it'll take at max half a year for the Paras to match up and better that.
That's how it works in India. Our sole standard or measurement is Pakistan.

 

[ManhattanProject]

The day SSG starts showing off COMTACS and high cuts and modern comms, it'll take at max half a year for the Paras to match up and better that.
That's how it works in India. Our sole standard or measurement is Pakistan.

look at NSG, the 26/11 attacks actually made them improve.

 

[Killbot]

Unless you use your Tier 2 SF frequently enough for operations they are meant to be used for (Frequent surgical strikes, raids, etc), you can't develop enough experience for developing a Tier 1 unit like Delta.

Not really. Because Tier 1 and tier 2 units have very different roles. So training will be different. So, it can be done if some inputs and training methods are taken from intelligence and Corps of Signals to an extent. And coming to the tactical part, I think training with NSG should suffice initially, after which the said unit can develop their own methods.

I think that is the way to go. Opinions are welcome.

 

[Killbot]

Sorry to say but your perception and reality have 0 connection.

Alright, what is your 'reality'. Let me guess, MARCOS are some sort of Soopa doopa tier 0 ultra classified unit with genetically modified super soldiers, richer than all of America, same with Garuds.

If so, you are disconnected from reality.

If we don't know something then best keep quiet

Why don't you educate me then? Oh, that's right, you know just about as much.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Sandeep Unnithan has clarified before that the quadNODs in this image are representative and that he does not know if we are getting quadNODs or some other NODs.

That I know obviously, who’ll spend 40k bucks for a single NVG device.