Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Narendra s rawat]

Considering we bought SOCOM kits so we might end up with good gucci equipment for our Special Forces but theres no mention for Comtacs Hope that MoD gets them coz our Special Forces are a joke.
View attachment 65151

Well there was article in timesnow that we are also buying suppressor,new sights,more helmet (probably high cut ballistic helmet) and more night vision.
No mention of comm in article but judging by the desision of more helmet maybe we are buying comm also().

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FhAB&usg=AOvVaw3-NQoMlysi4IUqyqh3fFPR&ampcf=1

 

[Killbot]

Considering we bought SOCOM kits so we might end up with good gucci equipment for our Special Forces but theres no mention for Comtacs Hope that MoD gets them coz our Special Forces are a joke.
View attachment 65151

None of what they are buying is worth the money. What they need is ballistic gear, comms and standardization.
Also, the numbers indicate that this could be for AFSOD.

 

[Killbot]

@rkhanna @Gessler @abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @armyofhind

Does anyone know about how the AFSOD is/ will be organized? Will there be composite teams of Soldiers from all three branches at the most basic level or will there be a divide? Also, command structure... Will a MARCOS Captain do the job of a Para Colonel and vice version? Any information on above? Hypotheses?

 

[Gessler]

@rkhanna @Gessler @abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @armyofhind

Does anyone know about how the AFSOD is/ will be organized? Will there be composite teams of Soldiers from all three branches at the most basic level or will there be a divide? Also, command structure... Will a MARCOS Captain do the job of a Para Colonel and vice version? Any information on above? Hypotheses?

As far as team compositions go, that's exactly what I'd like to know as well. I'd prefer it if it were the second approach (teams divided on service lines, but under same command). But so far there's little to no info regarding team composition.

AFSOD Commander will be from Army, and will report to CDS.

Field commanders though I'd guess would be from all services, merit based. Though much would depend on the theatre/AO in question.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Well there was article in timesnow that we are also buying suppressor,new sights,more helmet (probably high cut ballistic helmet) and more night vision.
No mention of comm in article but judging by the desision of more helmet maybe we are buying comm also().

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FhAB&usg=AOvVaw3-NQoMlysi4IUqyqh3fFPR&ampcf=1

Government of India should invest in literal self reliance and not expect private and PSU firms to suddenly create world class stuff.

Silencers are something we should make on our own, heck we are importing NVGs when the world uses Indian made Tonbo NVGs.

 

[armyofhind]

@rkhanna @Gessler @abingdonboy @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @armyofhind

Does anyone know about how the AFSOD is/ will be organized? Will there be composite teams of Soldiers from all three branches at the most basic level or will there be a divide? Also, command structure... Will a MARCOS Captain do the job of a Para Colonel and vice version? Any information on above? Hypotheses?

In Colonel Prakash Katoch's book - Indian Special Forces , he had given a few layouts of how an Indian "SOCOM", if you will, could be structured.

This is given in here -

SF not for counter-insurgency ops

Interview/ Lt Gen (retd) Prakash Katoch, former special forces officer

www.theweek.in

As far as I know, the new AFSOD is largely along these lines, with the exclusion of SFF and SG as well, as they still operate independently under the aegis of RAW.

Also, no dedicated air assets till now. Although the Army does have a Dhruv Squadron - 202 HU "Soaring Gideons" - they specialise in the insertion of SF teams into difficult terrain.

202 – Death on rotors !

We have heard about the heroic deeds of 160th SOAR a.k.a Nightstalkers and UKSF aviation they are known for what they have done in the history, these fame and these stories of extraordinary courage…

elitepredators.wordpress.com

Army Day Special: The Soaring Gideons

Your correspondent was invited to visit an army aviation squadron in Jammu and Kashmir, to get a first hand feel of their functioning. Take a look at the operating routine of the 202 Army Aviation Squadron (UH), which operates the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH).

stratpost.com

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Wanna know how USSOCOM and in particular Delta Force works?? Then look at this movie!!
Harrison Ford in Tom Clancy movies or Tom Clancy movies in 90s in general is a blast in general! I was mind blown watching this movie!

 

[ManhattanProject]

You mean ssg of pakstaan

no i meant the national security guards (NSG), they use highcuts too.

 

[Killbot]

In Colonel Prakash Katoch's book - Indian Special Forces , he had given a few layouts of how an Indian "SOCOM", if you will, could be structured.

This is given in here -

SF not for counter-insurgency ops

Interview/ Lt Gen (retd) Prakash Katoch, former special forces officer

www.theweek.in

As far as I know, the new AFSOD is largely along these lines, with the exclusion of SFF and SG as well, as they still operate independently under the aegis of RAW.

Also, no dedicated air assets till now. Although the Army does have a Dhruv Squadron - 202 HU "Soaring Gideons" - they specialise in the insertion of SF teams into difficult terrain.

202 – Death on rotors !

We have heard about the heroic deeds of 160th SOAR a.k.a Nightstalkers and UKSF aviation they are known for what they have done in the history, these fame and these stories of extraordinary courage…

elitepredators.wordpress.com

Army Day Special: The Soaring Gideons

Your correspondent was invited to visit an army aviation squadron in Jammu and Kashmir, to get a first hand feel of their functioning. Take a look at the operating routine of the 202 Army Aviation Squadron (UH), which operates the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH).

stratpost.com

Thanks, that was a good read.
I hope we have the kind of organization that Lt. Gen Katoch described. Because if any piece is missing, then there was no point of AFSOD.

 

[rkhanna]

As far as team compositions go, that's exactly what I'd like to know as well. I'd prefer it if it were the second approach (teams divided on service lines, but under same command). But so far there's little to no info regarding team composition.

AFSOD Commander will be from Army, and will report to CDS.

Field commanders though I'd guess would be from all services, merit based. Though much would depend on the theatre/AO in question.

Zero clue. The fact that a mere 6 odd months after announcing this unit they were doing large scale excerises was mind-boggling.

But my wet dream again :

The SOD experiment will lead to a SOCOM with SOD forming the military tier 1 capability with SG (with RAW) being rolled into a ISA type formation with permanent cadre.

SOD will have a Martime Team, Land Team, and Air Tactics team with SG forming the Intelligence and communication arm (working in conjunction with MI / DIA / IB / RAW)

Para SF / Marcos / Garud being the vanilla units for wartime conventional sof roles. - under SOCOM (parachute regiment being seperate)

SFF should be rationalized into a US Army Ranger 3-4 battalions max type of Unit as part of SOD.

Rest of SFF used to beef up the Para regt in a cdo capability outside SOCOM

Amphibian Command to have a liason office in SOCOM (MARCOS)

SOCOM to build its own rotary assets - fixed wing tranpsort and rotary both short and long ranged assets

ISR for SOD will be provided by ARC under the SG/Intelligence piece

SOD will become the funnel for actionable intel that requires paramilitary intervention from a national security perspective.

Intel will cross share with MHA (NSG) which will take the lead in CT/HRT in urban ops and is the 'white' (vanilla) CT unit.

 

[Killbot]

Zero clue. The fact that a mere 6 odd months after announcing this unit they were doing large scale excerises was mind-boggling.

But my wet dream again :

The SOD experiment will lead to a SOCOM with SOD forming the military tier 1 capability with SG (with RAW) being rolled into a ISA type formation with permanent cadre.

SOD will have a Martime Team, Land Team, and Air Tactics team with SG forming the Intelligence and communication arm (working in conjunction with MI / DIA / IB / RAW)

Para SF / Marcos / Garud being the vanilla units for wartime conventional sof roles. - under SOCOM (parachute regiment being seperate)

SFF should be rationalized into a US Army Ranger 3-4 battalions max type of Unit as part of SOD.

Rest of SFF used to beef up the Para regt in a cdo capability outside SOCOM

Amphibian Command to have a liason office in SOCOM (MARCOS)

SOCOM to build its own rotary assets - fixed wing tranpsort and rotary both short and long ranged assets

ISR for SOD will be provided by ARC under the SG/Intelligence piece

SOD will become the funnel for actionable intel that requires paramilitary intervention from a national security perspective.

Intel will cross share with MHA (NSG) which will take the lead in CT/HRT in urban ops and is the 'white' (vanilla) CT unit.



NSG

For the above to happen, the babudom in RAW and MoD have to have a modicum of synergy and cooperation.
I don't see that happening. But, main issue is training. Will new institutions and training methods be set up for SOD? Because if not, SOD is just a bunch of Parachute trained commandos, not an SOF division.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Zero clue. The fact that a mere 6 odd months after announcing this unit they were doing large scale excerises was mind-boggling.

But my wet dream again :

The SOD experiment will lead to a SOCOM with SOD forming the military tier 1 capability with SG (with RAW) being rolled into a ISA type formation with permanent cadre.

SOD will have a Martime Team, Land Team, and Air Tactics team with SG forming the Intelligence and communication arm (working in conjunction with MI / DIA / IB / RAW)

Para SF / Marcos / Garud being the vanilla units for wartime conventional sof roles. - under SOCOM (parachute regiment being seperate)

SFF should be rationalized into a US Army Ranger 3-4 battalions max type of Unit as part of SOD.

Rest of SFF used to beef up the Para regt in a cdo capability outside SOCOM

Amphibian Command to have a liason office in SOCOM (MARCOS)

SOCOM to build its own rotary assets - fixed wing tranpsort and rotary both short and long ranged assets

ISR for SOD will be provided by ARC under the SG/Intelligence piece

SOD will become the funnel for actionable intel that requires paramilitary intervention from a national security perspective.

Intel will cross share with MHA (NSG) which will take the lead in CT/HRT in urban ops and is the 'white' (vanilla) CT unit.



NSG

Good points, but few points to highlight!!
* Make Para SF, Marcos and Guruds as Tier 1 units and create Tier 2 units, especially under the Indian Army like US Special Forces "Green Berets".
* Instead of SFF, create new units of US Army Rangers like equivalent force inside the IA itself, and let SFF function as a separate Paramilitary unit!
* AF-Sod should have its own integrated hardwired comm systems, within each service.
* Dedicated Air Assets from the Tri-service is also a priority.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Good points, but few points to highlight!!
* Make Para SF, Marcos and Guruds as Tier 1 units and create Tier 2 units, especially under the Indian Army like US Special Forces "Green Berets".
* Instead of SFF, create new units of US Army Rangers like equivalent force inside the IA itself, and let SFF function as a separate Paramilitary unit!
* AF-Sod should have its own integrated hardwired comm systems, within each service.
* Dedicated Air Assets from the Tri-service is also a priority.

By comm systems, I meant connectivity between all three services, for better synergy without getting compromising network, like getting hacked!!

The network tech that U.S. Special Operations Command likes

U.S. Special Operations Command's chief information officer, Lisa Costa, explains how the organization is thinking about the latest networking technology.

www.c4isrnet.com

 

[Killbot]

Good points, but few points to highlight!!
* Make Para SF, Marcos and Guruds as Tier 1 units and create Tier 2 units, especially under the Indian Army like US Special Forces "Green Berets".
* Instead of SFF, create new units of US Army Rangers like equivalent force inside the IA itself, and let SFF function as a separate Paramilitary unit!
* AF-Sod should have its own integrated hardwired comm systems, within each service.
* Dedicated Air Assets from the Tri-service is also a priority.

No, yes and no, yes, yes.

We need to create a Tier one unit, as roles of Para, MARCOS and Garuds are already 'Tier 2'.

SFF being remodeled after the US Army Rangers is required, under RAW. Army needs to raise more Para (Air) units.

Agree with the rest.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

No, yes and no, yes, yes.

We need to create a Tier one unit, as roles of Para, MARCOS and Garuds are already 'Tier 2'.

SFF being remodeled after the US Army Rangers is required, under RAW. Army needs to raise more Para (Air) units.

Agree with the rest.

You mean, make Tier-1 units within those 3 units?? But isn't Marcos and Garuds already small enough in manpower to provide Tier-1 operatives?
Second point being, let SFF remain a paramilitary unit under RAW, headed by an IA officer, but create a US Army Rangers like units within IA, and we have enough manpower inside IA to do that.
*Integrated Hardwired Communication system is a must in AF-SOD, so much so USSOCOM has its own fleet of satellites dedicated for them!!

 

[Rohan Naik]

what if the enemy targets those granades directly??

 

[Vishalreddy3]

I remember, people in this thread asking for some of the best books about special forces or joint special operations, these are the books that I finished and some currently reading!!
*Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command Relentless Strike by Sean Naylor
*The mission, the men and me by Pete blaber
*Inside Delta Force by Eric Haney.
Will post more book later!

 

[Phantom sierra]

I remember, people in this thread asking for some of the best books about special forces or joint special operations, these are the books that I finished and some currently reading!!
*Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command Relentless Strike by Sean Naylor
*The mission, the men and me by Pete blaber
*Inside Delta Force by Eric Haney.
Will post more book later!
View attachment 65194
View attachment 65195
View attachment 65196

Thanks bro

 

[Dessert Storm]

OT
Could somebody help me out with
Raiders in Kashmir - Akbar Khan.
Physical copy or PDF

 

[Killbot]

You mean, make Tier-1 units within those 3 units?? But isn't Marcos and Garuds already small enough in manpower to provide Tier-1 operatives?
Second point being, let SFF remain a paramilitary unit under RAW, headed by an IA officer, but create a US Army Rangers like units within IA, and we have enough manpower inside IA to do that.
*Integrated Hardwired Communication system is a must in AF-SOD, so much so USSOCOM has its own fleet of satellites dedicated for them!!

Firstly, MARCOS aren't that small. Neither them nor Garuds are trained well enough to be Tier one forces. Heck, one could argue that their training is on a lower level than what is expected of a Tier 2 force.

And coming to their roles, MARCOS are a Maritime SF unit, which means they are like SEALs and Garuds are primarily a CSAR (Combat Search and Rescue) or SEAD unit. And helicopter gunners and such. Rough equivalent in US would be USAF pararescue.

So, they aren't Tier 1 units. Tier 1 units are the guys who do short duration high intensity raids on HVTs, strategic enemy establishments, or conduct hostage rescue in very hostile territory. And intelligence gathering ops, Covert and deniable ops, etc.

Paras, Garuds and MARCOS do not have the capability to fulfill the above roles. Hence, they are supposed to be Tier 2 forces, but are abused by our all knowing jernails. Best leave it at that.

So, a new Tier 1 establishment has to be raised. With the equipment, training, budget, operational secrecy and backing of political leadership to conduct the kind of ops mentioned above.