Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Nightshade1992]

Really cool. More so if the people who are doing this know what they are doing. Please post pictures of your designs whenever you can.

Roger will do.

 

[rkhanna]

ike Myanmar 2015 and the 2016 surgical strikes that pretty much any light infantry in western militaries could have done just as successfully

Bro I am saying the Naga ghatak platoons could have done this opp. Or any of the Regs that train day in and day out for jungle operations and LRRP.

He just doesn't understand it.Indian SF is capable of much much more. In Sri Lanka they used to do 2-3 weeks ops in the jungle moving from village to village observing and reporting and then interdiction of LTTE in the jungle as and when they found them.

He thinks I am insulting the men because I called the Op a basic commando op executed to perfection.

 

[Killbot]

Bro I am saying the Naga ghatak platoons could have done this opp. Or any of the Regs that train day in and day out for jungle operations and LRRP.

He just doesn't understand it.Indian SF is capable of much much more. In Sri Lanka they used to do 2-3 weeks ops in the jungle moving from village to village observing and reporting and then interdiction of LTTE in the jungle as and when they found them.

He thinks I am insulting the men because I called the Op a basic commando op executed to perfection.

Op Khukri (Sierra Leone), 2001 for example. That one operation dismantled the whole rebel movement in SL. A whole IA company was rescued. 4000-5000 rebels surrendered in the aftermath. No casualties in SF.
Thats what SF should be used for, ops of strategic importance, that cannot be done by anyone else.
They also use RAF Chinooks in the op. Importance of good aerial assets. Thats why Army wanted Ospreys IMO.

 

[rkhanna]

Well we have been designing and conceptualizing our products since last one and a half year. After almost a year of search for proper manufacturer we were able to hone in on a manufacturer that has been producing top quality products for the swiss army and South Korean spec ops. Ofcourse they manufacture their products based on the foreign units requirements but luckily they were able to get a glimpse of our vision and agreed to manufacture for us. Initially we will be dependent on 3rd party manufacturer but will ultimately aim to have our own set up within 5 years.

2 pieces of advice. Get the sizing right. Too often indian def manufacturers have to make products for nato/western body types for export as they have zero ability to build a business model dependent on indian contracts. so alot of times you will see I'll fitting helmets and vests on Indian troops. (The new kit). Because many time a manufacture a new size means different economies of scale etc so may become more expensive). Indian body types vary greatly so if you can find a way to get a flexible contract manufacturing process and still manage to keeps costs in check across you will win a big battle.

Second. Try marketing it to operators directly first - alot end up buying kit with their own money. If it becomes popular commander then becomes willing to use his discretion fund to buy for his men. Then becomes an easier cross sell to CAPFs.

Just 2 paisa as food for thought from experience dealing with MOD

 

[rkhanna]

Op Khukri (Sierra Leone), 2001 for example. That one operation dismantled the whole rebel movement in SL. A whole IA company was rescued. 4000-5000 rebels surrendered in the aftermath. No casualties in SF.
Thats what SF should be used for, ops of strategic importance, that cannot be done by anyone else.
They also use RAF Chinooks in the op. Importance of good aerial assets. Thats why Army wanted Ospreys IMO.

Do you know the most badass part of that op? A 4 man CTR team infiltrated the camp where the RUF were holding the hostages, and they managed to mingle with the hostage taking down recon notes. Then slipped back out of the camp and lead the assault in.

That's balls of steal and Special Operations at the finest

But it is also my opinion that somewhere along the way of the SF battalion expansions we lost a bit of an edge. SOF cannot be a wholesale business

 

[Killbot]

Do you know the most badass part of that op? A 4 man CTR team infiltrated the camp where the RUF were holding the hostages, and they managed to mingle with the hostage taking down recon notes. Then slipped back out of the camp and lead the assault in.

That's balls of steal and Special Operations at the finest

The LRRP capability of our operators is probably unparalleled.. I mean look at their physical conditioning..

As for SF battalions, absolutely. We should have maybe 3000 SF guys, and rest should be support (like US Army 75th Ranger Regt.)

 

[Deathstar]

The LRRP capability of our operators is probably unparalleled.. I mean look at their physical conditioning..

As for SF battalions, absolutely. We should have maybe 3000 SF guys, and rest should be support (like US Army 75th Ranger Regt.)

Dude thanks for telling me about this op , i had absolutely no idea that we had done something of this scale. Just read it on wiki , fantastic. Our own Op Entebbe haha

 

[Killbot]

Dude thanks for telling me about this op , i had absolutely no idea that we had done something of this scale. Just read it on wiki , fantastic. Our own Op Entebbe haha

Shitheads in bollywood didn't make this into a movie.. pity..

 

[Deathstar]

Shitheads in bollywood didn't make this into a movie.. pity..

I think SRKs red chillies is going to make one

 

[Killbot]

I think SRKs red chillies is going to make one

They wanted to make one since 2015. And that's the last I heard of it. But there is some scope for it now, considering the popularity of Uri. We'll have to see.

 

[rkhanna]

Do you know the most badass part of that op? A 4 man CTR team infiltrated the camp where the RUF were holding the hostages, and they managed to mingle with the hostage taking down recon notes. Then slipped back out of the camp and lead the assault in.

That's balls of steal and Special Operations at the finest

But it is also my opinion that somewhere along the way of the SF battalion expansions we lost a bit of an edge. SOF cannot be a wholesale business

(Addition) those 4 men stayed in the camp as "prisoners" for 3-4 days before they got out and back to their unit.

Serious goosebumps when I heard it from for the first time from a soldier. Keep in mind not an officer so came with a butt load of colourful language.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Hey guys,
I have been following this thread since a long time now. I am really impressed with the level of discussions that goes in on here regarding the SF units particularly. So i thought this is the best place to announce what i am going to do. So me and my brother who happens to be in the SF (4 years of stint in SG) have formed a start up that focuses on designing and manufacturing combat apparels, tactical vests, plate carriers and other accessories for the Indian operator specifically. Thankfully my brother not only has the practical experience from the lush deep jungles of assam to the mountains of Himalayas but also a sound knowledge and awareness about the western products ranging from 'CRYE', 'warrior assault system', 'UF PRO' and pentagon tactical. He has used these products extensively in live ops in India and Africa but found that somehow most of these products are not 100 % suitable for Indian terrains and environment. Keeping that in mind me and my brother have struck a deal with a manufacturing unit to produce these products in limited quantity considering the prototypes and samples that we designed previously for the Indian operator was a hit with the marine commandos. They were satisfied and impressed that we produced the product of almost the same quality as that of our western counterparts for almost half the price. Unfortunately because of the CHINESE virus our plan came to a halt for a temporary period nevertheless we plan to provide our products in small quantity to various para sf units, garuds and marcos by mid next year. Various PARA SF units have already shown their interest in our products considering the credibility my brother has. I can't exactly reveal the products as of now as its still in baby stage never the less i will be sharing the pics and technical details of the products with you lot by starting next year for you guys to scrutinize and give your valuable feedbacks. My brother after almost 12 years of service in the SF will be taking a premature retirement by next year in order to focus on the start up named "GEARSMITH".
Regards
Abhinandan

now i am excited!
best of luck!

 

[Killbot]

(Addition) those 4 men stayed in the camp as "prisoners" for 3-4 days before they got out and back to their unit.

Serious goosebumps when I heard it from for the first time from a soldier. Keep in mind not an officer so came with a butt load of colourful language.

There were apparently 3 teams of 2nd Para to rescue 223 IA soldiers. A 6-8 man CTU team to recce the area where hostages were being held, a 34 man assault team to rescue hostages, and a 40 man team to kill remnants. Also they had CAS in the form of 3 Mi-24s.
9 Para was with 5/8 Gorkha Rifles in a separate mission to occupy a strategically important town. And secure bridges and stuff. One of the best planned and executed ops by Indian Armed Forces to date. It also saw seamless cooperation between IA, IAF and RAF.
Hundreds of RUF (rebels) were killed.
Keep in mind, RUF was a well trained and equipped force, with APCs, MANPADS and stuff. Much like LTTE in its prime in 1990s. Not stupid inbred abduls visiting their tinder girlfriends..

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Afaik they don't even have SBRs. All SOFs in the world have their own drills etc. They build tactics on whatever experience they have. Ours have tons of experience, but do not seem to have learned from it at all... I really hope it changes with AFSOD...

How can anything change from AFSOD when the same people will be posted.

Forget about drills we have not invented anything or something as simple as ballistic shields in the last 3 decades.

It doesn't take anything impressive to order uniforms,boots,protective gear or helmets or comtacs.

But to see the difference in all of these and training of all SF units shows that even the Para are not on one page with respect to training and equipment.

When Para is not on one page how will the 3 services be...What happened with the Apache deal?

 

[Killbot]

How can anything change from AFSOD when the same people will be posted.

Forget about drills we have not invented anything or something as simple as ballistic shields in the last 3 decades.

It doesn't take anything impressive to order uniforms,boots,protective gear or helmets or comtacs.

But to see the difference in all of these and training of all SF units shows that even the Para are not on one page with respect to training and equipment.

When Para is not on one page how will the 3 services be...What happened with the Apache deal?

After all this also if someone wants us to say Jai Ho then Jai ho to them only.

the problem isn't with Para JCOs, NCOs or even junior officers, who'll be making up majority of AFSOD along with Marcos and Garuds. Its with jernails who think Paras are infantry.
Precisely because SFs of all three branches come together will AFSOD improve. There are 10 PARA SF bns, each of which have different training equipment and COs.
But AFSOD is headed by one Maj Gen, so we can expect a modicum of standardization in terms of general equipment, like ballistic vests and firearms. Its a small group with fewer jernails to meddle, and the man on top (MG A K Dhingra) is an Op Pawan vet with a Sena Medal for gallantry. He has credentials and is from 1st Para SF, so he knows what he is doing.
Your point may be right too.. never thought of it that way.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

the problem isn't with Para JCOs, NCOs or even junior officers, who'll be making up majority of AFSOD along with Marcos and Garuds. Its with jernails who think Paras are infantry.
Precisely because SFs of all three branches come together will AFSOD improve. There are 10 PARA SF bns, each of which have different training equipment and COs.
But AFSOD is headed by one Maj Gen, so we can expect a modicum of standardization in terms of general equipment, like ballistic vests and firearms. Its a small group with fewer jernails to meddle, and the man on top (MG A K Dhingra) is an Op Pawan vet with a Sena Medal for gallantry. He has credentials and is from 1st Para SF, so he knows what he is doing.
Your point may be right too.. never thought of it that way.

Here a infantry officer in the forum thinks SF is overly favoured and we are talking about a General to do what he couldnt as a CO or a Brigadier.(biased upbringing)

NSG has a different budget too but nothing too impressive has happened there also.

Basically,we Indians are too political in our DNA and the real people who can make a difference hardly reach the top.

This is all good on paper so i will see when it happens.

 

[Knowitall]

Just wanted to point this out after reading the last few pages of this thread.

Giving valid and constructive criticism is not ranting or bitching about stuff.

Also this is a forum people here will share their opinion don't feel offended just because everyone here is not a yesman.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Just wanted to point this out after reading the last few pages of this thread.

Giving valid and constructive criticism is not ranting or bitching about stuff.

Also this is a forum people here will share their opinion don't feel offended just because everyone here is not a yesman.

Yes

Or

Lets stop talking about cricket also because none of us has played Ranji trophy.

And as far as my experience in life goes the people with the most knowledge about a subject belong to a field totally different.

It is a defence forum..There is no need to be defensive at all..we are not talking about anyones GF here.

 

[abingdonboy]

the problem isn't with Para JCOs, NCOs or even junior officers, who'll be making up majority of AFSOD along with Marcos and Garuds. Its with jernails who think Paras are infantry.
Precisely because SFs of all three branches come together will AFSOD improve. There are 10 PARA SF bns, each of which have different training equipment and COs.
But AFSOD is headed by one Maj Gen, so we can expect a modicum of standardization in terms of general equipment, like ballistic vests and firearms. Its a small group with fewer jernails to meddle, and the man on top (MG A K Dhingra) is an Op Pawan vet with a Sena Medal for gallantry. He has credentials and is from 1st Para SF, so he knows what he is doing.
Your point may be right too.. never thought of it that way.

You should look at/contact Vinayak Sen of Armasen tactical, he has similar thoughts to
You and perhaps a little more experience in the market so I’m sure there’s an opportunity for mutual benefits to be shared

Here a infantry officer in the forum thinks SF is overly favoured and we are talking about a General to do what he couldnt as a CO or a Brigadier.(biased upbringing)

NSG has a different budget too but nothing too impressive has happened there also.

Basically,we Indians are too political in our DNA and the real people who can make a difference hardly reach the top.

This is all good on paper so i will see when it happens.

NSG has developed tactics and specialisations like no other special unit in India

Their K9s, EOD and breachers are the best india has to offer from the top of my head.

their operators also have demonstrated the best weapons handling I’ve seen of any Indian unit

their emphasis on realistic training is above and beyond anything seen in Indian military SFI


For what they do india doesn’t have anyone better than NSG and they are constantly improving

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

You should look at/contact Vinayak Sen of Armasen tactical, he has similar thoughts to
You and perhaps a little more experience in the market so I’m sure there’s an opportunity for mutual benefits to be shared


NSG has developed tactics and specialisations like no other special unit in India

Their K9s, EOD and breachers are the best india has to offer from the top of my head.

their operators also have demonstrated the best weapons handling I’ve seen of any Indian unit

their emphasis on realistic training is above and beyond anything seen in Indian military SFI


For what they do india doesn’t have anyone better than NSG and they are constantly improving

Before 26/11 also they were best in India.

But the agenda was to be one of the best in the world right.