Indian Special Forces (archived)

[12arya]

Lt. Col. ARUN KUMAR CHHABRA SM, 10 SF; his Balidan Diwas being today.


During 1989, Lt Col Arun Kumar Chhabra, a recipient of the Sena Medal was serving as second-in-command of 10 Para (SF), and soon was to take over as its commanding officer. In 1987, 10 Para(SF) had got involved in the Jaffna University Heli-drop operation launched by the IPKF aimed at disarming the LTTE by force and capturing the town of Jaffna. Mounted on the midnight of 12 October 1987, the operation was planned as a fast heliborne assault using Mi-8 helicopters with 10 Par(SF) commandos and a contingent of the 13 Sikh LI. The aim of the operation was to capture the LTTE leadership at the University building which served as the Tactical Headquarters of the LTTE. Though the operation proved costly for the Indian forces, it changed the course of the war with LTTE. On 14 Oct 1989, 10 Para(SF) was tasked for another daring operation against an LTTE stronghold. The operation was led by the second in command of the unit Lt Col Arun Kumar Chhabra as it had great military significance. He swung into action along with his team as per the plan and made a bold attack on the stronghold. The LTTE militants were heavily armed and consequently a fierce gun battle ensued thereafter. Lt Col Arun Kumar Chhabra killed two militants during the operation, however he too got shot in the retaliatory fire.

Lt Col Arun Kumar Chhabra later succumbed to his injuries and was martyred.
His son Col. Varun is now the CO of 10 SF!

 

[Immanuel]

First of all. understand that it is through our behavior we demonstrate the greatness of our upbringing, faith and culture. Stop your insults and pot shots at members.

Secondly. I dont bitch about the men. I have 4 generation of my family members who have served in the Indian Army going back to WWI. I have over 9 family members who have served in the Paras

If you cant understand what I am trying to say, thats on you.




It was a Texbook Commando operation from the 70s/80s. No rocket science. It was a long patrol and a direct action. Pretty Conventional all in all. Hard for sure. But we dont need to sho

British Paras in the Falklands
Royal Marine Commandos in Borneo
75th Ranger Regiment in Iraq and Afghanistan (Annaconda)
82nd Mountain in Afghanistan

And these are only Commando units not even SOF. Indian SF in Kashmir in the 90s, in Kargil and in Sri Lanka did far far harder and more complicated operations then this. ITS A FACT. move on.

Your arguments dont make coherent sense.



Nope. The operators on SOFREP say otherwise. I will take their word over yours thank you.




Sorry i know a bit about this operation. I also know a bit about how the operations are conducted in that part of the world. A large part is due to restrictions impossed on lack of capability. You think it is easy to spot a drone in the sky? At night?

If we sent a 6 man CTR patrol that grid locked that entire AO. Then at 3 Am Called in an Air Strike from Fixed Wing with Rotary doing mop up and unit pick up post. What would 'Spies' been able to spoil? Flying time over 50kms is a few minutes.



Yes. So we are in agreement. Has anyone ever doubted the infantry skills of our soldiers?

The primary conversations on this forum have to do with Poor understanding of SOF tasking which results in crap kit which results in outdated training. Its a COMMAND FAILURE.

Our troops have the same kit and capability as we had in the 1980s. its a fucking shame for a





1) I can bitch all i want. I am the tax payer. My Army works for me
2) I am under no compulsion to be grateful to anyone.
3) This is a military forum for mental masturbation, it is not for changing anything. But by calling a spade a spade young kids will (hopefylly) not grow up with the delusions that have suddenly gripped our country.

You dada, par dada might have served, but you're an arm chair negro (your ancestors who served are turning in they graves). Chill. I said show examples in modern times not from fucking 80s/90s with textbook execution with dozens killed. IA has killed over 34K pigs since 94 so there is hardly any comparison. No one gives a flying gucci duck if you pay taxes or if you live in your Mama's basement. Your army does work you so learn to be grateful for those who volunteer. For the rest you can continue to bitch, moan all you want, cunts have every right to do so.

 

[Immanuel]

Are you saying that most of the US SF missions end in failure by quoting those two examples ? (And the UBL one was not even a failure, it was a glitch, a loss of equipment, UBL is still dead, isn't he ?)
Indeed our lads are doing a great job, no one is disagreeing there. But why are you justifying not acquiring superior comms and NVGs and other equipment based on past success ? Warfare is constantly evolving, need to change and adapt, quad nvgs are better than two, but we don't want them just so we can prove we are the 'tough' boys ?

Gucci gear is great for certain ops, but for a lot of the terrain, heat, extreme colds IA operates in I doubt any of that shit works. However, I have never said we shouldn't acquire any of those. What I am saying is our context of operations are no where comparable to US or other countries. There is N number of things that can be acquired but as I said for years at this point, we can only hold our dick with pride if we allocate 4-5% of GDP to defense. For now we have to rely on what we have.

 

[Immanuel]

We are missing a key point in the Gucci gear debate - per capita military budget (PCMB).

PCMB is the answer to the question “when will Indian SF get Gucci gear?”. This question haunts pretty much everyone on this thread but, surprisingly, very few have pointed out the centrality of PCMB.

Let’s do some simple math.

For rough comparison, use this formula:
PCMB = [Total military budget] ÷ [Total number of military personnel]

Let’s do a comparison between UK and India, for example. Using the above formula, we get:
1) PCMB of India = 49221 $ per person
2) PCMB of UK = 328277 $ per person

Ratio of PCMB of UK and India is = 328277 ÷ 49221 ≈ 6.7
This means that the PCMB of UK is 6.7 times more than PCMB of India.
This further means that UK spends 6.7 times more than India per person on its military.
This also roughly implies that the SAS receives 6.7 times more money than Para SF per operator.

In other words, a SAS soldier roughly gets 6.7 times more money than a Para SF soldier.

There you go. Problem solved!!

So when someone asks, “when will Para SF receive SAS-level gear?”, tell them: “if and when India increases its PCMB by several times”.

Yes, this calculation is simplistic. I have not incorporated many other factors like purchasing power etc. But this principle of PCMB is true in its essence.

Let me finish my answer with an example:
PCMB helps explain why even Singapore SF is better equipped than Indian SF.
View attachment 62677

Been saying this for years, the first thing to bitch about is the budget. We should have consistent increases so as that by 2025 we need to have allocated 4-5% of GDP to defense.

 

[Killbot]

You dada, par dada might have served, but you're an arm chair negro (your ancestors who served are turning in they graves). Chill. I said show examples in modern times not from fucking 80s/90s with textbook execution with dozens killed. IA has killed over 34K pigs since 94 so there is hardly any comparison. No one gives a flying gucci duck if you pay taxes or if you live in your Mama's basement. Your army does work you so learn to be grateful for those who volunteer. For the rest you can continue to bitch, moan all you want, cunts have every right to do so.

Post speaks volumes about your IQ. You are the one bitching to satisfy your ego. Resorted to swearing as soon as your stupid arguments were put in their place... in your arse.

 

[Immanuel]

Post speaks volumes about your IQ. You are the one bitching to satisfy your ego. Resorted to swearing as soon as your stupid arguments were put in their place... in your arse.

Nah nigga, just cursing you ungrateful mofos out. All you niggas do, is bitch, whine and moan. Niggas couldn't walk a mile in the shoes of regular IA infantry near the front line but come here and yap about tactics. It's just hilarious. Go back to sleep beta.

 

[Deathstar]

Nah nigga, just cursing you ungrateful mofos out. All you niggas do, is bitch, whine and moan. Niggas couldn't walk a mile in the shoes of regular IA infantry near the front line but come here and yap about tactics. It's just hilarious. Go back to sleep beta.

Its not about tactics or level of skills or even quality of the troops. What we discuss here is the gear. So what's the problem if one says we should get better gear than what we possess? Will that hamper the skills , nope , will that improve it , yes.
Now, why we argue here ? because its a forum which is meant to debate on such issues...
Now ,why does one criticize on this thread? Because they care for our troops , they want to see them have best of the best , isn't it?

 

[Immanuel]

Its not about tactics or level of skills or even quality of the troops. What we discuss here is the gear. So what's the problem if one says we should get better gear than what we possess? Will that hamper the skills , nope , will that improve it , yes.
Now, why we argue here ? because its a forum which is meant to debate on such issues...
Now ,why does one criticize on this thread? Because they care for our troops , they want to see them have best of the best , isn't it?

Agreed with everything but some here do BS comparisons, everything from drills, to quality of men is judged, meanwhile they say there is nothing special about the ops we do while they can't walk a mile with their fat asses down to the grocery store. So I have no respect for them and they will get rightfully cursed out. Instead we should be greatful there is slow steady change.

I understand they are frustrated but I can tell when there is genuine frustration in comparison to down right disrespect. We can have clean peaceful discourse without nagging about every little supposed flaw. We can blame command for a lot of things but seldom do think or realize they're doing the best they can within the shitty budgets, shitty babus, shitty procurement policies, under performing PSUs, etc. Slowly things are changing, let's hope for the best.

Sure, I curse a lot but only who are asking for it.

 

[ManhattanProject]

Future ballistic helmet

and what about peripheral vision? there is a reason pilots have those huge visors.

 

[Bhadra]

Please read the following excerpt from an article by Lt Gen Prakash Katoch.

“General BC Joshi was the first Army Chief who took note of the focus required to alleviate the Special Forces concept – in line with the transnational threats and need for employing Special Forces at strategic level. Under him the, Army Special Forces Regiment was raised. The then three Parachute (Commando) units were renamed 1 Special Forces, 9 Special Forces and 10 Special Forces and a Headquarters Special Forces was raised. The appointment of Chief of Army Staff was designated the Honorary Colonel of the Army Special Forces Regiment; General BC Joshi donning the mantle of the first Honorary Colonel of the Army Special Forces Regiment. Lt Gen Vijay Oberoi (who eventually retired as Vice Chief of Army Staff) was named the Colonel of the Special Forces Regiment. But then tragedy stuck and General BC Joshi died while in office. His successor, General Shankar Roychowdhury, in a moment of utter weakness, succumbed to pressures from retired Paratrooper Generals and disbanded the Special Forces Regiment.”

Source:

Whither Special Forces? - Indian Defence Review

While discussing a monogram on Special Forces at a prominent Think Tank in New Delhi last month (December 2013), one of the discussants (a former Brigadier) opined that the “entire Parachute Regiment should form part of the

www.indiandefencereview.com

How does it matter if SF is a separate Regiment or part of PARA? Does that in any way effect the organization, functioning, utilization and roles of SF units.

One fellow also suggested removing SF from Infantry Chain of Command? I really do not know what that Gawachi Ga meant? the SF cell is part of Infantry directorate to extract and exploit allocation of disproportionately the largest chunk out of that is allotted to Infantry directorate.

It seems many contributors here suffer very badly from closed mind syndrome that falls largely on "need association" deficiency even going down to the levels of "train Types"...

I am OK you are not OK - that would never ever make a guy a good SF soldier.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

and what about peripheral vision? there is a reason pilots have those huge visors.

Why do you need peripheral vision for infantry unit?? These are not for aviators, and those visors are for virtual HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) which needs a different helmet design altogether!

 

[Killbot]

How does it matter if SF is a separate Regiment or part of PARA? Does that in any way effect the organization, functioning, utilization and roles of SF units.

One fellow also suggested removing SF from Infantry Chain of Command? I really do not know what that Gawachi Ga meant? the SF cell is part of Infantry directorate to extract and exploit allocation of disproportionately the largest chunk out of that is allotted to Infantry directorate.

It seems many contributors here suffer very badly from closed mind syndrome that falls largely on "need association" deficiency even going down to the levels of "train Types"...

I am OK you are not OK - that would never ever make a guy a good SF soldier.

All I meant when I said remove from infantry chain of command was that SFs need a separate command or corps, headed by a general officer with experience in SF. They will continue to do what they are doing, but have a separate budget and procurement will become easier.
And the Special Forces Regiment, I think was meant for the above, with PARA (air) acting as support troops. Something like US Army Rangers (PARA). The SF Regiment would probably be equivalent to US Army Green Berets and brit SAS.
And thanks for your service.

 

[Edyk12]

What is the device that he is holding?

 

[armyofhind]

What is the device that he is holding?

Its a climbing winch. Basically you just hold onto it and pulls you up along the rope.

 

[Killbot]

What is the device that he is holding?

Marcos have the best Plate Carriers in India. Nice to see them adopting high cuts. VBSS teams have COMTACS as well right... would love to see them with those.

 

[Edyk12]

Its a climbing winch. Basically you just hold onto it and pulls you up along the rope.

Thank you.

 

[Edyk12]

Marcos have the best Plate Carriers in India. Nice to see them adopting high cuts. VBSS teams have COMTACS as well right... would love to see them with those.

I think Navy and IAF have put a bit of money for their decent gear for their SF as compared to Army.

 

[Killbot]

I think Navy and IAF have put a bit of money for their decent gear for their SF as compared to Army.

It also has to do with numbers as @AZTEC said

 

[Killbot]

Is there a reason why PCs used by all Armed forces is bright green? Does it have to do with the manufacturer? Because all gear, be it PCs, current army FLC vests, SMPP vests are all the same color.
Be it SF or regular infantry.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Nah nigga, just cursing you ungrateful mofos out. All you niggas do is bitch, whine, and moan. Niggas couldn't walk a mile in the shoes of regular IA infantry near the front line but come here and yap about tactics. It's just hilarious. Go back to sleep beta.

Your fervent affection for this particular word makes me rather curious about the state of your origin. So which state of our nation had the great fortune to be bestowed with your heavenly appearance??