Indian Special Forces (archived)

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

6.8 mm Remington SPC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 6.8 mm Remington SPC (AKAs: 6.8 SPC, 6.8 SPC II & 6.8×43mm) is a rifle cartridge that was developed by Remington Arms with collaboration from individual members of the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit, United States Special Operations Command.[4] to possibly replace the 5.56 NATO cartridge in a Short Barreled Rifle(SBR)/Carbine.

Based upon the .30 Remington cartridge,[5] it is midway between the 5.56×45mm NATO and 7.62×51mm NATO in bore diameter and velocity. It uses a .277 (7.036mm) diameter bullet, which is the same diameter bullet as the venerable hunting cartridge .270 Winchester uses. It is particularly adaptable to current 5.56 mm NATO firearms, the cartridge overall length being comparable.

6.8mm Remington SPC (6.8x43mm) cartridge shown along with 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge (RIGHT)

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

yes about the rifle.how the weapons chambered for 6.8 will perform in harsh conditions.am asking this coz generally weapons chambered for 5.56 lags behind performance in harsh conditions like mud and water and frost as compared to those firing 7.62.

6.8 mm Remington SPC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The

first major manufacturer to offer a 6.8 mm Remington SPC chambered version of the AR-15 was Barrett Firearms Company, offering the Barrett REC7. By 2007, most major manufacturers of AR-15 type rifles for the civilian gun market (including Olympic Arms, Bushmaster Firearms International, LMT, LWRC, DPMS Panther Arms, Rock River Arms, Stag Arms, Ruger, Bison Armory, AR15 Performance, Dedicated Technology, Yankee Hill Machine, Ambush Firearms, Wilson Combat, Daniel Defense, and Remington Arms) were offering rifles in this caliber. Dedicated AR upper receiver assemblies chambered for the round are produced by a number of smaller firms. Ruger Firearms produces a 6.8 mm for their Ruger SR-556 piston-driven AR-15 variant.[17] The Stag Arms Hunter and Tactical models utilize the newer chambers and specified twist rates to accommodate higher pressure loadings. Microtech Small Arms Research offers their version of the Steyr AUG in 6.8. Robinson Armament Co. offers the XCR-L in 6.8, which can be easily converted between 6.8, 5.56, and 7.62x39. Bushmaster offers a 6.8 chamber and barrel along with 5.56 for the ACR also. Ruger Firearms chambered their Mini-14 Ranch Rifle in this round for several years; however, it has been discontinued.

Personally, I think the Mini-14 would perform well under extreme environmental conditions with the 6.8mm. I had one in 5.56mm.

 

[SPIEZ]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

Cleaning Kit & Oil..

We were using same cleaning technique as we used in Insas for these guns, And the kit used for these guns are not crude as OFB once..

That meant it required frequent cleaning, which makes it not so efficient.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

That meant it required frequent cleaning, which makes it not so efficient.

How is frequent cleaning is related to less efficiency ?

And how many times a gun need cleaning ?

 

[SPIEZ]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

^^^ Comparing standards set by the AK and Tavor, clearly the Tavor had issues.

besides there was a bullpup variant of the AK which was available.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

^^^ Comparing standards set by the AK and Tavor, clearly the Tavor had issues..

Issues like ?

What Standards ?

 

[SPIEZ]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

Issues like ?

What Standards ?

Standards of reliability, it is very well known that the M4 was a failure, and so a M4 based gun would also be a major failure.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

Standards of reliability, it is very well known that the M4 was a failure, and so a M4 based gun would also be a major failure.

The internal are not like M4 so does the outer, It just use 5.56mm..

So does Insas, What counts:

1. ruggedness..
2. precision..
3. Flexibility..

 

[sandy_3126]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

Standards of reliability, it is very well known that the M4 was a failure, and so a M4 based gun would also be a major failure.

how is m4 an failure? and what are the well known facts

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

how is m4 an failure? and what are the well known facts

I remember readin about a competition in which they compared M4 with other carbines. It jammed the highest number of times, 882 times I think, and 19 major problems (the sort of jamming that a soldier can't repair himself, it required an engineer). The M4 has reliability problems, but I wouldn't call it a failure.

 

[sandy_3126]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

I remember readin about a competition in which they compared M4 with other carbines. It jammed the highest number of times, 882 times I think, and 19 major problems (the sort of jamming that a soldier can't repair himself, it required an engineer). The M4 has reliability problems, but I wouldn't call it a failure.

I am pretty avid shooter, and shoot almost every week, Although i (still) dont own an AR15 (based on same m16/m4 platform), I have shot roughly more than 1000 rounds on three different AR's (Larue, dpms and S&W m&p15 ) this year. Apart from occasional FTF due to crap ammo, I have never had any problems. I assume mil spec receivers would be similar or better quality. I have never had a broken extractor or any jams that were not fixable.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

I am pretty avid shooter, and shoot almost every week, Although i (still) dont own an AR15 (based on same m16/m4 platform), I have shot roughly more than 1000 rounds on three different AR's (Larue, dpms and S&W m&p15 ) this year. Apart from occasional FTF due to crap ammo, I have never had any problems. I assume mil spec receivers would be similar or better quality. I have never had a broken extractor or any jams that were not fixable.

A Solider Rifle have to go through Sand, Mud, Soil, Water where ever where soilder goes, He sleep and eat with his rifle..

In these condition rifle should preform as per need, There is not much place and time for cleaning it, It have to fire whenever needed..

 

[sandy_3126]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

A Solider Rifle have to go through Sand, Mud, Soil, Water where ever where soilder goes, He sleep and eat with his rifle..

In these condition rifle should preform as per need, There is not much place and time for cleaning it, It have to fire whenever needed..

completely agree.... right tool for the right job. I haven't still come across any firearm which is not criticized.

hold tighter tolerances, get better accuracy, compromise ruggedness (wrt dirt grit etc) and viceversa, there are AR variants specifically built to be robust, and there are others built for urban warfare etc.

My contention was M4 is not a "failed" platform

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

M4 is a good rifle not failed, It failed in certain conditions which dont effect its overall preform ace..

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

completely agree.... right tool for the right job. I haven't still come across any firearm which is not criticized.

hold tighter tolerances, get better accuracy, compromise ruggedness (wrt dirt grit etc) and viceversa, there are AR variants specifically built to be robust, and there are others built for urban warfare etc.

My contention was M4 is not a "failed" platform

No, M4 is not a "failure" as such. Even the best of rifles can get jammed in the worst of conditions, and while the M4 certainly isn't as reliable as some others on the market, it has a good enough reliability to be used by soldiers, else U.S. Army wouldn't have procured so many of it. It has amazing accuracy, which is great. After the Battle of Fallujah, the journalists originally thought that the U.S. guys has captured and executed the Iraqis, because of the number of headshots they saw.

 

[SPIEZ]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

how is m4 an failure? and what are the well known facts

In recent years, the M4 finished dead last in a sandstorm reliability test, against 3 competitors that include a convertible M4 variant. Worse, the 4th place M4 had over 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. Was that a blip in M4 buys, or a breaking point? DID explains the effort, the issues, and the options, as the Army moves forward with an "Individual Carbine" competition. But will it actually replace the M4?

The USA’s M4 Carbine Controversy

 

[SPIEZ]

Re: M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

Failure of M4

Like its predecessor the M16, the M4 also has a reputation as an excellent weapon – if you can maintain it. Failure to maintain the weapon meticulously can lead to jams, especially in sandy or dusty environments. Kalashnikovs may not have a reputation for accuracy, or lightness – but they do have a well-earned reputation for being able to take amazing amounts of abuse, without maintenance, and still fire reliably. The Israeli "Galil" applied these lessons in 5.56mm caliber, and earned a similar reputation. Colt's M16 and M4 have never done so.

According to briefing documents obtained by Gannett's Army Times magazine:

"USMC officials said the M4 malfunctioned three times more often than the M16A4 during an assessment conducted in late summer 2002 for Marine Corps Systems Command at Quantico, VA. Malfunctions were broken down into several categories, including "magazine," "failure to chamber," "failure to fire," "failure to extract" and "worn or broken part," according to the briefing documents. During the comparison, the M4 failed 186 times across those categories over the course of 69,000 rounds fired. The M16A4 failed 61 times during the testing.
The Army conducted a more recent reliability test between October 2005 and April 2006, which included 10 new M16s and 10 new M4s"¦. On average, the new M16s and M4s fired approximately 5,000 rounds between stoppages, according to an Army official who asked that his name not be released."

 

[Shaitan]

 

[Shaitan]

[video=vimeo;45419182]http://vimeo.com/45419182[/video]

Video of Vajra Prahar 2011

 

[Ankit Purohit]

Be a Part Of the action

and i am still trying

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