Indian Special Forces (archived)

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abingdonboy

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10 Para pics from recent encounter just shocked me.

Like they changed nada in the last 12 years..nadaaaa.

I am thinking where does the unit budget go btw because every infantry unit has their own share of little budget in the end which should be enough to equip a crack unit inside 10 para so what are these units doing.

I dont boast of a lot of things here but if i was given even 10 lac every year...i would have made the sf units stand way apart from what they are...all it takes is a little motivation and innovation.
Too true, doesn’t look like a single penny has been spent on PARA SF in over a decade, not. One. Penny.

no fking clue where all their CAPEX is going and no idea how there can be such little inspiration inside these elite army units to have been content to stand still for over a decade whilst every one of their peers has transformed in the same time. Are these guys blind or their standards are just so low that they think a Tavor and smock makes them SF?

Yes and FORCE 1 Support Weapon Squadron.
View attachment 47369
View attachment 47371
Nothing to do with FORCE ONE unit of Maharashtra Police
Wait what? NSG has a “force one” inside it? How do they fit into their force structure?

+ once again shows NSG has the best infra in India- their indoor shooting ranges are world class
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Too true, doesn’t look like a single penny has been spent on PARA SF in over a decade, not. One. Penny.

no fking clue where all their CAPEX is going and no idea how there can be such little inspiration inside these elite army units to have been content to stand still for over a decade whilst every one of their peers has transformed in the same time. Are these guys blind or their standards are just so low that they think a Tavor and smock makes them SF?


Wait what? NSG has a “force one” inside it? How do they fit into their force structure?

+ once again shows NSG has the best infra in India- their indoor shooting ranges are world class
I will add one more thing which will attract criticism but chuck it i have had enough

I wear a uniform too and i have never seen any pride with regards to uniform in kashmir.

I am amazed at every effort made by troops to go far from it when this is the same uniform they wanted to die for to wear.

The officer the enlightened ones too make no effort in making sure a dress code is followed.

Some CO wants his QRT to look like NSG while the other wants his QRT to look like a Adidas sponsored football club.

Total waste of money and resources...same money could have been spent on buying gloves,attachments,rails etc.
 

Waanar Reborn

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Yeh kis cheeze ki training ho rhi h? I mean kya purpose h iska 🤔
Probation. I'd seen a similar one where Force Recon volunteers were tested by being put in a room and holding hands. That's tear gas. The Force Recon documentary was probably from "Surviving the Cut" series. It's much more chaotic here though. It's generally not recommended to touch your face when exposed to this because the ones on your skin go into the eyes as well and hurts even worse. This is why some of the guys got up and started struggling to leave.

TL: DR- Good ol' torture in probation.
 

abingdonboy

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I will add one more thing which will attract criticism but chuck it i have had enough

I wear a uniform too and i have never seen any pride with regards to uniform in kashmir.

I am amazed at every effort made by troops to go far from it when this is the same uniform they wanted to die for to wear.

The officer the enlightened ones too make no effort in making sure a dress code is followed.

Some CO wants his QRT to look like NSG while the other wants his QRT to look like a Adidas sponsored football club.

Total waste of money and resources...same money could have been spent on buying gloves,attachments,rails etc.
I’ve said this before. A uniform is not just about camouflaging and operational needs but it serves an organisational purpose- creating a common identity, allowing for members to feel part of a unified entity and also discipline. Why do 5* hotels take these things so seriously? Heck any customer service entity does. Not turning up presentable can be a disciplinary offence in many jobs but who are meant to be THE most disciplined get a pass?

It’s a damning reflection on the officers as NCOs in the Indian mil who are meant to be responsible for this.

this isn’t a trivial matter and it reflects an organisation rotten to the core. If they let this sh!t pass then what else are they willing to turn a blind eye to? Gross negligence? Poor disciplinary standards?

it might even explain tragedies like URI, Pulwama, EDI, poor availability of AC, Sindhurakshak etc etc

Show me another military that has such a pathetic grip on uniform standards in the field that isn’t on the African continent.
 
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COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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I’ve said this before. A uniform is not just about camouflaging and operational needs but it serves an organisational purpose- creating a common identity, allowing for members to feel part of a unified entity and also discipline. Why do 5* hotels take these things so seriously? Heck any customer service entity does. Not turning up presentable can be a disciplinary offence in many jobs but who are meant to be THE most disciplined get a pass?

It’s a damning reflection on the officers as NCOs in the Indian mil who are meant to be responsible for this.

this isn’t a trivial matter and it reflects an organisation rotten to the core. If they let this sh!t pass then what else are they willing to turn a blind eye to? Gross negligence? Poor disciplinary standards?

Show me another military that has such a pathetic grip on uniform standards in the field that isn’t on the African continent.
True that..I dont tolerate funny games with uniform in my profession also.

And before anyone comes up with US SF undercover ops or black ops pics kindly understand the meaning of undercover op and a team being called in ..both are different.

Here is how US SF teams were like 7 years ago.

 

abingdonboy

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True that..I dont tolerate funny games with uniform in my profession also.

And before anyone comes up with US SF undercover ops or black ops pics kindly understand the meaning of undercover op and a team being called in ..both are different.

Here is how US SF teams were like 7 years ago.

Exactly and I bet you have been taught from early on in your industry to respect the uniform and now you take pride in it yourself. But these professionals soldiers seemingly give 0 sh!ts about how they dress? It’s unfathomable to me. The mental gymnastics used to justify this do nothing for me anymore. Apparently there’s something so unique and special about the Indian soldier that asking him to wear the same uniform as the man next to him in the field is preposterous and also a task harder than getting an orbiter to Mars!


I’m sick of this entirely made up strawman argument. Look up ANY Western SF operating in the field in the last 15 years. Not 1 operator is wearing an entirely different uniform to the rest of the team- not ONE.

Some of them have beards or slightly different load outs, oh wow. /s
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Exactly and I bet you have been taught from early on in your industry to respect the uniform and now you take pride in it yourself. But these professionals soldiers seemingly give 0 sh!ts about how they dress? It’s unfathomable to me. The mental gymnastics used to justify this do nothing for me anymore. Apparently there’s something so unique and special about the Indian soldier that asking him to wear the same uniform as the man next to him in the field is preposterous and also a task harder than getting an orbiter to Mars!


I’m sick of this entirely made up strawman argument. Look up ANY Western SF operating in the field in the last 15 years. Not 1 operator is wearing an entirely different uniform to the rest of the team- not ONE.

Some of them have beards or slightly different load outs, oh wow. /s
Back in the day when my old man was a commander in Kashmir we were having friendly fire incidents.

So the red triangle or the white triangle was introduced(which you see in old pics on patka)..cant say if it was my dads idea or the man before him and the uniform was very important back then.

There was the old jungle print but everyone wore that.

It amazes me that how in two decades things have actually worsened in this.Those were the days RR was ruthless and BMPs rolled in kashmir.Terrorist camps were inside Kashmir.

Good officers prayed to not be alloted RR and bad devils used to extend their tenure.RR officers were famous by name in terrorist camps.

The patka cloth was introduced by armoured corps guys and soon was taken by SF and then RR.Initially it was black patka then camo patka started coming.

Those were the days...Armoured jonga..open jeeps and one ton.
 

Hellfire

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Ok good sir, what is your solution then ? Till now I have only seen you questioning others, pray tell us what you would do ?
I merely raised counter points to your post earlier, giving the rationale as to why certain actions have no utility & serve no purpose except for optics.

As for the questions, well, majority are part of the process of two way communication, which involves posing questions for clarification of point being put forth. A few are meant to give answers obliquely, like why multiple camou are seen.
 

Hellfire

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I think a better argument in that case would be the job of SF in kashmir is mostly urban warfare..so what good is any camo anyway?
That is a good point anyways. But majority of operations of SF are not in urban set up. And for the terrain/geography that exists there, even the standard pattern camouflage holds good.

Personally, never found camouflage pattern making any difference in J&K in terms of camouflage and concealment.

Movement is your enemy. And that - the way you move, is the way to beat Thermal Imagers, Unattended Ground Sensors (BFSRs too). In daytime, you appear as a black speck in snowbound areas. Fits in with the mountainous terrain which has rocks all over. In summers, the greenery and foliage around allows all kinds of camouflage patterns to blend in, as long as you have the right mix of green, brown, yellow, black (basic woodland which is 'worn' and not brand new)


But

If that was the case would there be friendly fire incidents?

How about different units operating in the same area and coming across.

In 99 a Infantry unit of sardars(wont name it) came across its own qrt and resulted in injuring 2 own troops in own fire...terrorists escaped.

How do you mask movement of SF, whose teams are mostly small and in different locations, converging at a point to undertake an action in an area where there is an informant at every corner? Do you standardize their clothes and bring them in as good as tagged? The movement of SF in J&K is undertaken with unit designation of either a RR unit or something else. They carry AKs openly when moving to converge for an action. The emphasis is on blending in, rather than on standing out.

Blue on Blue has always been a challenge in CI/CT as well as conventional operations. Because you get a fraction of a second to decide whether the opposing member is a militant/terrorist or your own. The only way to limit that likelihood is by communication, which is usually ensured. But still happens.
 

samsaptaka

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I merely raised counter points to your post earlier, giving the rationale as to why certain actions have no utility & serve no purpose except for optics.

As for the questions, well, majority are part of the process of two way communication, which involves posing questions for clarification of point being put forth. A few are meant to give answers obliquely, like why multiple camou are seen.
You didn't answer my question at the end
 

Bhadra

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100 posts on Camo fever all beating around the proverbial bush...... all uninformed and unreasoned rants....

OK ... now a few questions?
Who makes the ICK ?? Who supplies it?
What is the scale of Kitting the soldiers in the field or peace?
From where can a soldier or an officer buy the same kit? Is there any way the same can be bought from the unit QM ?? If not, are the soldier to go around with town uniforms or hundred patched on it like an international faqir of Jai Hind Ki Sena?
Are the soldiers adequately kitted to meet the requirements of different terrain and climate? Say a soldier is given a Coat combat disruptive in a cold climate. Is it designed to be fit for combat? What is the scale of authorization of Jungle boots to troops in Eastern Command?

Is there any standard cloth manufacturing agency in the country that makes combat disruptive cloths for IA ?? OR is it Dadagiri of OFV that they pick up from bast commission paying agency or some PSU like NTC or a private company like Raymonds? Why do I have to rush to Agra to buy a simple Para Jacket? Why is it allowed to be worn when not authorized?

If one does not ensure adequate means to adhere to uniform discipline he has no right to enforce it? It is so simple.

Do not live in a La-La land? Come down to mother earth. Look sometimes at your commander or the general next time who would be dressed in a British Army Jacket or some Malesian Army disruptive or US Army boots and flaunt the same while addressing the troops. If he is not, then he would be labeled as OG Nanawatti type Infantrywala, not an open-minded mudcorpswala liberal.

Just look at that Black Scarff / parka all over the valley which has no operational or safety relevance whatsoever? How freely is it flaunted even by SF?

The moot question is - how to standardize the Camo? How to reassess and refix the scale of authorization of the same from time to time? How to authorize a Corps commander to issue an extra pair of camo to troops as a matter of operational necessity? And how to make the standardized camo available with units to be bought by the officers and the soldiers.

Solve these to solve the issue of Camo rather than looking at London but seeing Tokiyo.....
 
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How to enforce it?

Simple.

Just as you do it in peace location.Just as the way everyone in peace location is properly shaved,trimmed hair and wearing the perfect shade of olive greens in perfect shining DMX boots..thatshow.

CO makes sure Officers do that..officer makes sure subeidar sahab does that..subeidar sahabs ensures havaldars do that and havaldars make sure jawans do that.

Accountability..just like in peace time.

Buying the right clothes just exactly how its done in peace times with the fear of quater guard and red entry thatshow.

Now what needs to be done at the Ordanace level i dont know.

But here is something i know.

I am a pilot .We are given many pairs of shirts and pants when we join.They are good for the first 2 years but the company expects us to wear it for 5 years.

Theres no way it will last 5 years.So there is only 1 option.We have to write a mail asking for more set of clothes which we get in a few weeks and we have to pay for it from our salary.

The company has a tie up with a big clothing brand for this.

I think if we do something similar in the Army and discipline is follwed like in peace locations everything will become easy.
 
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Bleh

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How to enforce it?
Basically same way every other country and every other force, operating all over India & the world does it.

How do you mask movement of SF, whose teams are mostly small and in different locations, converging at a point to undertake an action in an area where there is an informant at every corner?
Wear those large Kashmiri phirans over their BPJ?.. Hell, those things can even hide their Tavors. Most with pretty dull prints too. (...Assuming they travel by cars or bikes.)
 

Bhadra

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How to enforce it?

Simple.

Just as you do it in peace location.Just as the way everyone in peace location is properly shaved,trimmed hair and wearing the perfect shade of olive greens in perfect shining DMX boots..thatshow.

CO makes sure Officers do that..officer makes sure subeidar sahab does that..subeidar sahabs ensures havaldars do that and havaldars make sure jawans do that.

Accountability..just like in peace time.

Buying the right clothes just exactly how its done in peace times with the fear of quater guard and red entry thatshow.

Now what needs to be done at the Ordanace level i dont have the experience for that.

But here is something i know.

I am a pilot .We are given many pairs of shirts and pants when we join.They are good for the first 2 years but the company expects us to wear it for 5 years.

Theres no way it will last 5 years.So there is only 1 option.We have to write a mail asking for more set of clothes which we get in a few weeks and we have to pay for it from our salary.

The company has a tie up with a big clothing brand for this.

I think if we do something similar in the Army and discipline is follwed like in peace locations everything will become easy.
I have raised a few questions.
Why do not you answer that rather than delving into Sargent Major procedures .
Answer questions raised above such as -
Who makes ICK ?
What is the scale of kitting >>>
How can anyone buy it ???
Etc etc ..... do not find another bush to beat....
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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I have raised a few questions.
Why do not you answer that rather than delving into Sargent Major procedures .
Answer questions raised above such as -
Who makes ICK ?
What is the scale of kitting >>>
How can anyone buy it ???
Etc etc ..... do not find another bush to beat....
The same camo is also available in the shops the other camo is picked up from.

If you want i will post pictures from Kashmir next time i am there.

Its a matter of choice once your govt supply is done.
 

Bhadra

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The same camo is also available in the shops the other camo is picked up from.

If you want i will post pictures from Kashmir next time i am there.

Its a matter of choice once your govt supply is done.
The questions are specific.
The Answer must be specific .... including "do not know".....
 
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