Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Information from someone very senior in an Indian (private) defence company.

multiple SF teams deployed in active ops are trailing out their new uniforms with in-built elbow and knee pads. They are working with the operators to get the materials and stitching right, this has been a complaint from NSG that has been trailing out similar uniforms as well as combat shirts

AFSOD is a reality and is already operationally deployed.

SPG are the most kit-savvy defence customers (know what they want and are up to date on all latest equipment) and they are present at pretty much every expo, they have an ability to buy as they like. This is followed by NSG. Mil SFs have procurement offices that are largely run by non-SF personnel. They haven’t had any experience with AFSOD yet so can’t say if the situation is different for them.

More autonomy is being given to the NSG hubs to buy what they need individually as opposed to having to go through the NSG’s HQ in Delhi.

I am sorry bro...which SF teams and which operation are they deployed in?

We all have access to pics from all SF operations this year..what is that guy even talking about?

Have you seen the 10 Para Pics?

 

[Vishal reddy]

Riyaz Niakoooo!!!!! The mathematics teacher turned rebel..

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Riyaz Niakoooo!!!!! The mathematics teacher turned rebel..

@Assassin 2.0

Dont miss it this time.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

PARA SF

 

[RedDevil]

NSG Marksman
Barrett M98B
View attachment 47267

Do the NSG guys have dedicated sniper training schools or something?

 

[Hellfire]

Ha Ha Ha .....
These are small level piddle operational tasks that fall within the preview of the operational command of a division or a Corps.... None of that justifies a SOD or a SF battalion being placed at command level.... any Ghatka platoon will do it...

SF operations for US or UK forces have different connotations where the SF commands are utilized to assist in attaining overall aims and objectives in conventional or nonconventional operations in an expeditionary manner or as a part of nonmilitary clandestine operations. West and USA have no conventional perspective post-cold war still NATO has a vast requirement of military dominance of Eastern Europe, Russian periphery, and third world country to remain in control of the existing world order.


Our strategic environment and perspective are quite different and so does our areas of Interest or influence. Operations such as preparation of battlefields, strategic surveillance, Recconsance are regular tasks for all our agencies because those areas are our neighborhood. They do not need aerial insertion, clandestine infiltration. establishment support bases etc to be obtained by Military SF as many other agencies are regularly seized with that task.

What we definitely need is to train our SF to seize or destroy enemy nuclear assets, destroy enemy C4I Systems, destroy HVT, Raid HQ, Raid and seize a VP or VA, assist friendly forces, control and restore a rebellion, Tacke high profile terrorist attacks, hijacks, hostage rescue etc....

Think bigger than sending the SF into Mushko valley......

How does the above correlate with the post of mine you have quoted?

Bold - already well incorporated.

 

[Hellfire]

Its not because its SOD.

Multiple camo would attract me if they had Navy,AF and Army camo mixed but this is just any camo available in the market.

Most people dont know this but such camo is available in shops in J&K.

So i am not interested in this theory...new helmets..different camo..waah sod aa gayi..bullshit

Even some RR units have better helmets and gear than 10 PARA..doesnt mean they are SOD.

Exactly. Your answer is right in front of you.

You have answered it here.

Apart from the fact that even in J&K different locations have different camouflage pattern's utility when considered purely in terms of Special Forces operations involving creeping across LC at the rate of 200 meters in 8 hours, what does a right mix of camouflage do when you have 4 to 6 men converging from multiple points for an operation only to disperse?

 

[Hellfire]

1. Basically what you’re saying is same as saying US should not have killed UBL because they will lose some “assets”. Then what is the use of having those assets in the first place if not to enable you to cut the head of the snake ?

Following points:

1. The information of OBL being in the general areas of Quetta - Abottabad has been made available to US since 2006. Only a specific pin point location was needed to be established when they actually wanted to remove him. A political decision was made when the exit from Afghanistan was nowhere in sight and there was a need to show something as the incumbent POTUS had pledged to get the troops home. It was a political decision for domestic consumption. Recall Burhan Wani in J&K context. His general information was available and he could have been eliminated earlier too. But there were no direct gains to be had from the same. What events preceded the decision to kill him? Try and analyze those.

2. What was achieved by killing him? Another leader came, a new chain established and the group has remained omnipresent. Did, US exit Afghanistan? Is AQ as a threat over? Or has it's ability to create off-shoots and foster cohesive plan of action by various Jihadist organisation been degraded?

3. Full point, we kill 100s of yahoos. Put the fear in them that no matter where they take shelter they can’t be saved by porkies . Make the cost so high that they will think twice before picking up a gun and shouting allahu akbar.

Then you have absolutely no clue about who you are fighting. They are not worried about that. That is the most amusing part. They are willing to die for their ideology. And they have no shortage of those brainwashed zombies either. For good measure, the ISI recruits from the Pakistani prison system. And what will a convict choose when given an option between jail/death/life imprisonment and waging 'jihad' and seeking 'Allah's' forgiveness and getting served by beautiful Kashmiri girls and women in name of 'duty towards mujaheddin'?

I don’t know, you tell me. Or better yet ask the operators themselves.

Have laid out an answer in preceding post.

 

[Hellfire]

You donot make a doctrine for a regiment.

SF is not a regiment and does not comprise exclusively the elements of the PARA (SF). But Parachute Regiment is definitely one. You have others too, which are in public domain and known to most of you here and others, who are not in domain but are pretty old outfits.

So, you are right, you do not make a doctrine for regiment. You make a doctrine for Employment and Utilization of Special Forces.

Was very specific.

Suggest a SF doctrine. Employment and utilization.

And as far as their employment and utilisation is concerned then they should be a part of an intelligence group as their sword arm as well as going for recon and surveillance ops, and for those ops you donot need SF in huge number but you need to convert three or four units of SF to SOF and equip as well as train them in the best possible manner such that they are master of their craft, be it, recon or hostage rescue or foreign internal defence or sabotage or snatch and grab ops.

That they are.

The guys Manning these units have to be educated smart guys who can think and plan mission on their own if they need it( in short guys with excellent IQ levels).

That they are trained to be. Each independently. That is why in 0 week of probation you do not get to sleep and get to be dead drunk all throughout, physically run down and then allotted tasks and planning of missions. They may be as mundane as writing a stupid essay in exactly 500 words at 2 am on why you want to be a para commando or special forces operative to a 10000 words essay on Britney Spears or Katrina Kaif.

Or you may just be sent out into the field and told to plan defences of the area you are put told to be in, site your weapons and establish arcs of fire, explaining the specifications of the weapons and the technical data - all, of course, sleep deprived, usually dead drunk and after being physically run down from various 'exercises' (just to name one simple physical task)

You are tested at every stage.

Rest of SF units can act as reserve and support units who provide fire power to them if and when they need it, they can be jack of all trades. And they can keep doing what they are doing but they have to be on standby to support SOF units when they need it because SOF units lack fire power and SF units can be armed with medium and a bit heavy fire power to help SOF in getting the mission done in a successful manner, and they can act as attrition replacement reserves as well.

This is all being done.

 

[samsaptaka]

Following points:

1. The information of OBL being in the general areas of Quetta - Abottabad has been made available to US since 2006. Only a specific pin point location was needed to be established when they actually wanted to remove him. A political decision was made when the exit from Afghanistan was nowhere in sight and there was a need to show something as the incumbent POTUS had pledged to get the troops home. It was a political decision for domestic consumption. Recall Burhan Wani in J&K context. His general information was available and he could have been eliminated earlier too. But there were no direct gains to be had from the same. What events preceded the decision to kill him? Try and analyze those.

2. What was achieved by killing him? Another leader came, a new chain established and the group has remained omnipresent. Did, US exit Afghanistan? Is AQ as a threat over? Or has it's ability to create off-shoots and foster cohesive plan of action by various Jihadist organisation been degraded?



Then you have absolutely no clue about who you are fighting. They are not worried about that. That is the most amusing part. They are willing to die for their ideology. And they have no shortage of those brainwashed zombies either. For good measure, the ISI recruits from the Pakistani prison system. And what will a convict choose when given an option between jail/death/life imprisonment and waging 'jihad' and seeking 'Allah's' forgiveness and getting served by beautiful Kashmiri girls and women in name of 'duty towards mujaheddin'?




Have laid out an answer in preceding post.

Ok good sir, what is your solution then ? Till now I have only seen you questioning others, pray tell us what you would do ?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Exactly. Your answer is right in front of you.

You have answered it here.

Apart from the fact that even in J&K different locations have different camouflage pattern's utility when considered purely in terms of Special Forces operations involving creeping across LC at the rate of 200 meters in 8 hours, what does a right mix of camouflage do when you have 4 to 6 men converging from multiple points for an operation only to disperse?

I think a better argument in that case would be the job of SF in kashmir is mostly urban warfare..so what good is any camo anyway?

But

If that was the case would there be friendly fire incidents?

How about different units operating in the same area and coming across.

In 99 a Infantry unit of sardars(wont name it) came across its own qrt and resulted in injuring 2 own troops in own fire...terrorists escaped.

 

[abingdonboy]

I am sorry bro...which SF teams and which operation are they deployed in?

We all have access to pics from all SF operations this year..what is that guy even talking about?

Have you seen the 10 Para Pics?

I’m with you but we can also accept that the pics we get aren’t even 1% of who is operating in the area.

not disputing the situation but this is credible news and we’d be unlikely to get pics of most of this stuff in trails.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I’m with you but we can also accept that the pics we get aren’t even 1% of who is operating in the area.

not disputing the situation but this is credible news and we’d be unlikely to get pics of most of this stuff in trails.

Lets hope for the best.I will be happy to see a good gear.

 

[abingdonboy]

Lets hope for the best.I will be happy to see a good gear.

Trails happen all the time and from what he tells me it’s an ongoing process as the operators have gone through a few iterations and still asking for more in terms of ventilation and joints support.

I just wish indian SF would become more tacticool minded and actually cared about the “operator look” instead they seem happy to run around like African rag tag militias

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Trails happen all the time and from what he tells me it’s an ongoing process as the operators have gone through a few iterations and still asking for more in terms of ventilation and joints support.

I just wish indian SF would become more tacticool minded and actually cared about the “operator look” instead they seem happy to run around like African rag tag militias

All this sounds really cool and this is not the first time i am hearing this.(15 years many time)

Indian Sf are illetrate to such concepts and if they are doing this which i highly doubt i will be very very surprised.

There is nothing smart that the SF units do..they are brave and ruthless but not smart in terms of future planning.

So like i said..lets see.

10 years ago we were promised this camo..everyone got excited...where is it?

Sorry i am not excited this time.

 

[abingdonboy]

All this sounds really cool and this is not the first time i am hearing this.(15 years many time)

Indian Sf are illetrate to such concepts and if they are doing this which i highly doubt i will be very very surprised.

There is nothing smart that the SF units do..they are brave and ruthless but not smart in terms of future planning.

So like i said..lets see.

10 years ago we were promised this camo..everyone got excited...where is it?

Sorry i am not excited this time.

Well said.....this is EXACTLY the case.

they don’t have a strategic mindset(which is what SFs are actually meant to have). I’ve said for a while they are soldier’s soldiers- their infantry skills are top notch but they just aren’t the force multipliers they should be.

They are commandos not True blue SF in the true sense of the word.


in theory a SOCOM would fix this, SOD perhaps not so much (will give India a SF for the first time in its history though). We should also keep in mind though that the US’s SOCOM was created about 40 years ago, India is still conceptualising such a structure.

+ I can assure you his word is good, if he says these things are happening you can be certain they are but where it goes from there is the question. PARA (SF) haven’t taken a single worthwhile step foreword in about 12 years now so I’m not exactly expecting much. At this point I’ve written Army SF off, just excited to see what NSG, Garuds and time an extent MARCOs can get inducted and of course SOD.

Look at the images above - PARA SF with no helmets, same sh!tty FLCs, no modifies rifles, no proper gloves (same mittens) and no modern comns headsets) pathetic.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Well said.....this is EXACTLY the case.

they don’t have a strategic mindset(which is what SFs are actually meant to have). I’ve said for a while they are soldier’s soldiers- their infantry skills are top notch but they just aren’t the force multipliers they should be.

They are commandos not True blue SF in the true sense of the word.


in theory a SOCOM would fix this, SOD perhaps not so much (will give India a SF for the first time in its history though). We should also keep in mind though that the US’s SOCOM was created about 40 years ago, India is still conceptualising such a structure.

+ I can assure you his word is good, if he says these things are happening you can be certain they are but where it goes from there is the question. PARA (SF) haven’t taken a single worthwhile step foreword in about 12 years now so I’m not exactly expecting much. At this point I’ve written Army SF off, just excited to see what NSG, Garuds and time an extent MARCOs can get inducted and of course SOD.

Look at the images above - PARA SF with no helmets, same sh!tty FLCs, no modifies rifles, no proper gloves (same mittens) and no modern comns headsets) pathetic.

10 Para pics from recent encounter just shocked me.

Like they changed nada in the last 12 years..nadaaaa.

I am thinking where does the unit budget go btw because every infantry unit has their own share of little budget in the end which should be enough to equip a crack unit inside 10 para so what are these units doing.

I dont boast of a lot of things here but if i was given even 10 lac every year...i would have made the sf units stand way apart from what they are...all it takes is a little motivation and innovation.

 

[ManhattanProject]

10 Para pics from recent encounter just shocked me.

Like they changed nada in the last 12 years..nadaaaa.

I am thinking where does the unit budget go btw because every infantry unit has their own share of little budget in the end which should be enough to equip a crack unit inside 10 para so what are these units doing.

I dont boast of a lot of things here but if i was given even 10 lac every year...i would have made the sf units stand way apart from what they are...all it takes is a little motivation and innovation.

its mind boggling.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Do the NSG guys have dedicated sniper training schools or something?

Yes and FORCE 1 Support Weapon Squadron.

Nothing to do with FORCE ONE unit of Maharashtra Police

 

[aditya g]

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