Most of those you mentioned (barring the Canadian and Swiss ones) are considered to be among the top of the line!! I only mentioned those who make the very best in their class, which our Army should have. Now, if you want our army to be satisfied with cheap knock offs, then be my guest.
Yeah, only if you knew most of these were just designated marksman rifles and not true sniper rifles (barring the Canadian and Swiss) one.Angoor Khatte Hain Ji..... Kyon khate ho...
I mention OFB because making a good sniper and ammunition is their subject for drawing salary from Defense budget. Everytime Army wishes to import Sniper and ammunition since 1990s they are the ones who say they would make it...
Really??!! But they didn't seem to have objected when stuff like PSG-1s and SSG-69s was imported??!! But then again, these government orgs do indeed work in mysterious and utterly inefficient ways more often than not, so I don't know what to say really.
Hmmm..... not supporting the OFB or anything but wasn't it the Army top brass that chose the Denel NTW-20 as their standard-issue AMR?? That thing weighs a flipping 34 kilograms when chambered for the 20 mm caliber ammunition, whereas the OFB copy weighs only 25 or so?? So what's the problem??
I have heard of it!! That's precisely what I was talking about before. Dude, that's an AMR, chambered for 20 mm caliber armor-piercing ammunition, to be used against hardened targets like concrete pillboxes and other types of heavy field fortifications!! You can not compare these with something chambered for 7.62 NATO!!
Our intelligent nibba army is unable to induct new snipers because under make in india program we want tot of the sniper and capability to manufacture its ammo RFI in 2018 was rejected because all companies failed to provide these things.
They have partnership with Brazilian biggest ammo manufacturer they are in talks to make ammo in india ( a big deal) by this logic we should never build anything in india because it will be our first try because of this logic we always be a importer anyway CEO of that company told that the rifle is tested in several different countries including United state's.
What our Army has now would be considered Designated Marksmen (or something along that line) by most modern western militaries. Now, please don't make the conclusion that somehow I'm trying to downplay the shooting/marksmanship skills of our boys, no, far from it. Because I know this for a fact that our lads shoot more rounds in training than they do in many of the first world militaries but being a dead-eye shot 'alone' is not enough on its own to qualify one to be a sniper, it takes a whole lot more than that.
Actually, we only wanted the tot for the rounds and not the rifles themselves, which I would say was justified. They were trying to ensure ready availability of ammunition supply. They fucked it up by linking both requirements.
I don't remember disagreeing with this notion ever. Dude, I've been called a porky in DRDO thread for I don't even remember how many times just because of this.
As I said before, I'm inherently skeptical of mere words. I believe 'em when I see 'em.
It's not used by army it's used by BSF i don't think SF soldiers will party around with 25KG gun.
Nor are they expected/ meant to. By the way, if you are to blame something, then blame it on the choice of caliber. I mean you can not ask a 'rifle' chambered for what is essentially an anti-aircraft round and then not expect the weight and bulk of the entire system to shoot up. They should have gone with 12.7 mm, that way, the weight could have been restricted below 12-15 kg................or not, knowing the OFB and all, they probably would have fucked it all up even then.
Everyone on this thread would say that Chinese manufacturing is of low quality but even Chinese made QBU-88 weights 4.1KG
But the QBU-88 is chambered for 5.8X42 mm round, which weighs about half as much as a 7.62X51 mm NATO does, which the OFB rifle is chambered for. So it's a no brainer that the OFB rifle weighs more. And the use of wooden furniture doesn't help it either. What's with OFB and this bizarre wood and orange fetish of theirs anyway?? I don't get it to be honest.
My bad compared it with wrong gun then what about French FR F2 sniper rifle which was made in 1980s 5.1 kilograms effective range 800 m.
Well, that's the result of their wood fetish coming in to play.
As I said, I don't remember ever disputing/ disagreeing with that. I want our Army to have the best of equipment that their budget would allow and where those may or may not come from is the least of my concerns.
So why MOD is not allowing gernails to have the guns? After few days in some other sector troops will die because of lack of snipers and you will come here abusing gernails ( tho i myself hate import friendly gernails)but it is clearly evident that lack of sniper is because lack of indigenous capabilities. And government not allowing direct import. First let the army to fulfill requirement of atleast having required number of guns then we can talk about infrastructure to specifically train people for snipping and that too will require money :biggrin2:
As I said, they fucked up by linking both requirements in the same deal. They should have made a separate contract for license production of match grade ammo with the collaboration of some private company while procuring the rifles and initial stocks of ammo off the shelf.
See, you didn't even care to digest what I said in my earlier comments, cause had you cared to do so, you would have easily understood that I wasn't blaming the Generals because of this particular deal going bust but rather because it took them this long to realize the urgent need to upgrade the sniper capabilities of the Army. I mean, before 2018, they never even bothered to ask for any kind of sniper rifles or at least I haven't seen any ASQRs getting released.
No one likes them.
Lack of indigenous capabilities is certainly a part of the problem but not the problem in and of itself, at least not in my opinion. I mean, realistically, you would need only a few thousand sniper rifles and dedicating our already limited resources to that end would be counterproductive in my opinion, especially since it's nothing that we can not import. Failure to produce proper match grade ammo, on the other hand, is a matter of grave concern and a huge drain on resources.
They actually did!! As far as I understand it, the MoD had no intention of license manufacturing the sniper rifles themselves but rather the ammo, which was a sensible approach but the MoD being the MoD it is, they fucked it all up by linking these two requirements into the same contract. Instead, they should have tried and made a separate contract for ammo production while the procurement of the rifles and initial stocks of ammo should have gone on unabated. But it was not to be since common ain't really that common, especially in this part of the world.
Where there is a will, there would be a way. Had they been serious about this, they would have set up the training facilities with whatever rifles they already had like Dragunovs and PSG-1 and SSG 69s, etc. But I think the basic understanding of the nuances of sniping is lacking, again, in my humble opinion.
Yeah, it is these small things (among others) that can go a long way to increase operational flexibilities and even survivability of the boots. Just don't forget to keep the lid closed or else your buddies will fill them up with rocks during your powernap just to fuck with you. Well, I would.
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