Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Bhadra]

If we're blowing so much money on so many fucking tanks, we better actually invade Pakistan in the near future.

@Wannaer for you too

OK, we will launch all tanks into Pakistan..
Say about 4000 tanks, 400 guns, 2000 APC, Two squadron of Apache, 100 more helicopters, 31 Squadron of fighters and 20 nuclear bombs .... of course not to make you happy and provided that you tell us following :

What is your main problem with Pakistan ? That is you have to clearly define what are the aims and objectives of such a war? What do you to achieve.
You want that land ? NO
You want that Jihadi population of 22 Crores and ensure that Kejruddin or Asaduddin Owaisi is the perceptual Badshah of India?
Or you just want to kill as many as possible but to what effect.
What is the cost of such a war ?
Can the same aims and objectives be achieved by less money, efforts and damages and by means other than War.

How to you assess such a war with the National aims of India.

India has punished Pakistan four times militarily. Did it solve our problem in any manner ?

So why do we have tanks ? They exist to deter Pakistan from taking any military adventure which they have proved they are very fond of.. The primary aim of all militaries world over is to prevent military Wars - so does IA.

I will further carry forward this discussion if you answer above questions.

Or stop being a Mungerilal....

 

[IndiaRising]

I wanted to articulate it better but no, this is perfect.
We better be invading some zones if we are investing this much in fucking tanks.
I mean, idiotic comparison (It makes you go "WTF?" when you realize it) but the fact is, if we're talking of a grid-based deployment, we have one tank for every 8 villages in Porkistan.
That's a lot.
That's more than a lot.
That's overkill.
It's..
I don't know wtf the military is preparing for with these tanks.
Any one have any actual logical guess/speculation?

India is not doing enough to counter sub-conventional warfare from Pakistan. Deterrence can only be achieved by taking out critical Pakistani assets, something New Delhi is not keen to do.

. They (Pakistan)will only feel emboldened with Taliban returning to power in afghanistan.

to counter, we will need to enhance HUMINT in Pakistan, while upgrading the security grid on the LoC. Does anybody know the status of the smart fence?

also, we will need to upgrade soldier’s equipment as well, because these new batch of jihadis seem to be more equipped than before. Sig sauers won’t be enough.

 

[Bhadra]

This is a special Forces thread ... and you guys are spamming it...

 

[IndiaRising]

@Wannaer for you too

OK, we will launch all tanks into Pakistan..
Say about 4000 tanks, 400 guns, 2000 APC, Two squadron of Apache, 100 more helicopters, 31 Squadron of fighters and 20 nuclear bombs .... of course not to make you happy and provided that you tell us following :

What is your main problem with Pakistan ? That is you have to clearly define what are the aims and objectives of such a war? What do you to achieve.
You want that land ? NO
You want that Jihadi population of 22 Crores and ensure that Kejruddin or Asaduddin Owaisi is the perceptual Badshah of India?
Or you just want to kill as many as possible but to what effect.
What is the cost of such a war ?
Can the same aims and objectives be achieved by less money, efforts and damages and by means other than War.

How to you assess such a war with the National aims of India.

India has punished Pakistan four times militarily. Did it solve our problem in any manner ?

So why do we have tanks ? They exist to deter Pakistan from taking any military adventure which they have proved they are very fond of.. The primary aim of all militaries world over is to prevent military Wars - so does IA.

I will further carry forward this discussion if you answer above questions.

Or stop being a Mungerilal....

sub conventional warfare in Kashmir is already being waged. We are in a state of war with these chewts constantly. Deterrence cannot be achieved unless we don’t take war into their land, which New Delhi is not keen to do.

 

[Bhadra]

India is not doing enough to counter sub-conventional warfare from Pakistan. Deterrence can only be achieved by taking out critical Pakistani assets, something New Delhi is not keen to do.

. They (Pakistan)will only feel emboldened with Taliban returning to power in afghanistan.

to counter, we will need to enhance HUMINT in Pakistan, while upgrading the security grid on the LoC. Does anybody know the status of the smart fence?

also, we will need to upgrade soldier’s equipment as well, because these new batch of jihadis seem to be more equipped than before. Sig sauers won’t be enough.

A sub conventional approach to Warfare has very less conventional military component ingrained into it. The aim of military component of conventional warfare is to provide offensive, destructive, disruptive and terror support to achieving aims of sub conventional warfare.
The main component of any warfare including sub conventional warfare is always Political. Terrorism is only a tactics and means to that end.

The task of conventional armies against sub conventional warfare is only to manage the military component - that is infiltration, Terrorism and behind the line activities. IA is is well managing that for last 78 years at an affordable and I would say at a very low cost.

The main component of operations against unconventional warfare are intelligence, administration, population management, ideological and psychological warfare and retaining political control. Population is the center of gravity. Babus, Police and Politicians are the main instrument of the state to do that.

Do not raise your fingers at the Army or hand over everything in J&K to the Army if you wish to that.... It is so cool...

 

[IndiaRising]

I was watching interview of that 4 Para SF operator who was leading the other team. I don’t know if he changed his get up before coming on camera. If he didn’t, it’s quite disheartening to see his gear. Not up to the mark.

 

[IndiaRising]

A sub conventional approach to Warfare has very less conventional military component ingrained into it. The aim of military component of conventional warfare is to provide offensive, destructive, disruptive and terror support to achieving aims of sub conventional warfare.
The main component of any warfare including sub conventional warfare is always Political. Terrorism is only a tactics and means to that end.

The task of conventional armies against sub conventional warfare is only to manage the military component - that is infiltration, Terrorism and behind the line activities. IA is is well managing that for last 78 years at an affordable and I would say at a very low cost.

The main component of operations against unconventional warfare are intelligence, administration, population management, ideological and psychological warfare and retaining political control. Population is the center of gravity. Babus, Police and Politicians are the main instrument of the state to do that.

Do not raise your fingers at the Army or hand over everything in J&K to the Army if you wish to that.... It is so cool...

I am not the one criticizing buying new tanks, but there is an argument to be made that not enough attention is focused on tackling this threat in Kashmir, unless you consider losing 60-80 soldiers every year as a Low cost success.is there any plan in place to end this unconventional war? No because babus and politicians in New Delhi are content with status quo.

main component should also involve ending the war at some point or should we just expect this nuisance to continue for the next 100 years?

 

[Bhadra]

sub conventional warfare in Kashmir is already being waged.

So let it be. It has to extract a cost from Pakistan. Our aim should be make it very costly and unaffordable for them, So far Pakistan is managing this with oil money received as Zakat. I it is estimated that by 1930 the world would move away from oil. Zakat giving Sikhs will not be able to dole out that much money. Jihad as a million dollar industry in Pakistan will definitely be effected.

If the terrorism water in J&K starts boiling then we have many other options including military. And we are quite capable of managing that.

We are in a state of war with these chets constantly. Deterrence cannot be achieved unless we don’t take war into their land, which New Delhi is not keen to do.

India is is in constant war with those invaders since 700 AD. Tell me a period when there was not a problem from our West including during Muslim period.
Mughals and Maharaja Ranjit sing managed the problem by ruling Kabul.

 

[IndiaRising]

So let it be. It has to extract a cost from Pakistan. Our aim should be make it very costly and unaffordable to the, So war Pakistan is managing this with oil money received as Zakat by it is estimated that by 1930 the world would move away from oil. Zakat giving Sikhs will not be able to dole out that much money. Jihad as a million dollar industry in Pakistan will definitely be effected.

If the terrorism water in J&K starts boiling then we have many other options including military. And we are quite capable of managing that.



India is is in constant war with those invaders since 700 AD. Tell me a period when there was not a problem from our West including during Muslim period.
Mughals and Maharaja Ranjit sing managed the problem by ruling Kabul.

what cost has been exacted on Pakistan by India in last 30 years? Our borders are under constant threat. Until recently, our cities were also under threat from terrorists trained by Pakistan. If you think Pakistan will run out of donors to keep it afloat and keep India burning, you are living in a fools paradise. And the Pakistani leadership is content with this status quo.

 

[MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00]

You are too much of a taliban or ssg etc fan boy , your subtle love for them and inserting- maybe ,most likely ,ifs and buts is getting tiring.

When someone mentioned these might be ssg/Bat ( Due to the harsh weather and terrain they were navigating)
you immediately jump in to shield them and invent if's and but's that they are just rag tag jehadis ,even mentioning their training places in POk with inserting most likely they were trained at **** bla bla bla**** ,


Your constant use of juvenile words ,its like you are trying too hard

And No i am not the only one who noticed.

Provide proof or stop with your paki taliban/BAT/SSG love .

Your subtle posturing is getting old and tiring.

LoL What do you want me to say they were from fucking Syria. It’s truth that these Terrorist were trained in POK or Afghanistan. the Porki Military clearly has role in the development of the Terrorists. Terrain might have played a part in the deaths of Para SF Jawans ( I am not denying that ) but you can’t rule out the other factors as well.

Why don’t you show me proof that these Terrorists were not trained in POK or Afghanistan and they have no connection with Taliban or Porki Military. Then I will accept what you say as the truth. My boy i never said I am Special Forces operative I am here like everybody else to learn new things and understand how our forces work. what I say are my opinions and if you don’t like it then don’t support it, I support people who have similar opinions like mine which is part of human nature. I never claimed what I say is the truth or gold standard. I am showing another possibility to events that unfolded there. If I am wrong i am ready to accept that I am wrong and I have no problems with that.

I don’t give a Shit about PISSG and taliban. I never said these are PISSG they are normal Jihadis who got training and they got that training from the Taliban since Porkis and Taliban have such strong relations and many Terrorists groups that operate in Kashmir have Sanctuaries and safe havens in Afghanistan under the watch of Taliban. It’s not just me who said these words there are many in this thread has said the same and some even said they might even had night vision. Everything is Speculation. All things we hear in the forum are second hand accounts and we don’t know not many information about the encounter. Army has kept majority of the info under tight wraps.

 

[Bhadra]

I was watching interview of that 4 Para SF operator who was leading the other team. I don’t know if he changed his get up before coming on camera. If he didn’t, it’s quite disheartening to see his gear. Not up to the mark.

It is very nice of the Commanders of 4 PARA SF to have put forward a Havildar as their spokesman. That is the kind of junior leadership on must applaud.

They kill the abduls very well. Leave aside their outfit.

 

[IndiaRising]

It is very nice of the Commanders of 4 PARA SF to have put forward a Havildar as their spokesman. That is the kind of junior leadership on must applaud.

They kill the abduls very well. Leave aside their outfit.

Not commenting on their valour, but 4 and 9 are both permanently stationed in Kashmir. They are the Mercedes Benz For the Army in Kashmir. They should be given equipment matching their stature.

 

[Bhadra]

what cost has been exacted on Pakistan by India in last 30 years? Our borders are under constant threat. Until recently, our cities were also under threat from terrorists trained by Pakistan. If you think Pakistan will run out of donors to keep it afloat and keep India burning, you are living in a fools paradise. And the Pakistani leadership is content with this status quo.

Read something on Pakistan. It will do you some good..

Their obsession to a middle age fundamentalist ideology and anti India / anti Hindu mindsets has inflicted irrevocable damages to their political, social, economic and psychologic system and institutions. Pakistan is virtually a failed terrorist state and society... Look at their education, economic, industrial, media and other civic system. Every thing is in shambles.

What more damages you want to inflict on them.. All Abduls who went to Pakistan post partition are in a dire straits and adequately punished - the includes The Biharis, Bhais, Ahmadis, Shias, Ismailis. Khojas, tribals and virtually everyone else except Pakjabies...

 

[Bhadra]

Not commenting on their valour, but 4 and 9 are both permanently stationed in Kashmir. They are the Mercedes Benz For the Army in Kashmir. They should be given equipment matching their stature.

I am not aware who is permanent and who is not. Kashmir J&K and North East are incubation grounds for all soldiers of Indian Army including all sorts of SF minus Police forces such as NSG.
It provides them all sorts of live combat exposure.
SF are bulldozers and not Mercedes Benz . There are no Mercedes Benz in the Armed Forces. Those are reserved for Defence and police civilians.

 

[MuzzleVelocity]

..............................................

What's the point of posting memes from 2012 on this group? Stick to the topic.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Read something on Pakistan. It will do you some good..

Their obsession to a middle age fundamentalist ideology and anti India / anti Hindu mindsets has inflicted irrevocable damages to their political, social, economic and psychologic system and institutions. Pakistan is virtually a failed terrorist state and society... Look at their education, economic, industrial, media and other civic system. Every thing is in shambles.

What more damages you want to inflict on them.. All Abduls who went to Pakistan post partition are in a dire straits and adequately punished - the includes The Biharis, Bhais, Ahmadis, Shias, Ismailis. Khojas, tribals and virtually everyone else except Pakjabies...

To be honest, would one worry about Pakistan more, or internal affairs more? The mind set of today’s people of a particular community within India is very similar to that of the paks. Doesn’t that worry you?
Something to think about. And really. How do you deal with that? Realistically?

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Dead bodies of porkis from Kupwara encounter

 

[Lancer]

What is your main problem with Pakistan ? That is you have to clearly define what are the aims and objectives of such a war? What do you to achieve.

Depends on the war. Everything likely cannot be achieved at once. There will have to be an initial war for PoJK. Then, either as part of that war, or another war (either conventional or sub-conventional like Russia's Donbass and Crimea campaign) - we must take back certain pieces of land like Hindu parts of Sindh, Sikh areas in W. Punjab, and strategic features like Akhnoor Dagger & Shakargarh Bulge.

Then a final, definitive war where we finally deliver the much discussed bifurcation coup de grace which permanently separates Sindh & Balochistan from Paki Punjab.

I'm in favor of fomenting a massive, unfixable insurgency in Pak's Pashtun Areas before fighting such a definitive war as well.

My long term goal is a disarmed, denuclearized, landlocked West Punjab which is permanently put in its place.

You want that land ? NO

Absolutely. Not all of it. But PoJK, Eastern Sindh, slivers of West Punjab, Akhnoor Dagger and Shakargarh Bulge are all a must.

You want that Jihadi population of 22 Crores and ensure that Kejruddin or Asaduddin Owaisi is the perceptual Badshah of India?

No, once you see my stated vision; it should be clear I have no interests in taking on such a big population (not that I'd give them all the ability to vote anyways). Sindh and Balochistan must become independent countries which are friendly to India and bound by defense treaties.

Or you just want to kill as many as possible but to what effect.

I absolutely want to deliver a severe blow in terms of death + financial damage as well - along with a resultant psychological blow.

Can the same aims and objectives be achieved by less money, efforts and damages and by means other than War.

No. Other approaches can form part of the greater strategy; but the final solutions will require India to get into the ring and get its hands dirty - even if it's only to deliver a final death blow.

How to you assess such a war with the National aims of India.

India has punished Pakistan four times militarily. Did it solve our problem in any manner ?

Only because India always sucked at following through/capitalizing on gains. India made a habit of bungling its strategy, or even worse - losing wars it had already won at the negotiating table. India is paying the price for its lack of killer instinct - it's both ironic and tragicomical to use that as an argument against war.

So why do we have tanks ? They exist to deter Pakistan from taking any military adventure which they have proved they are very fond of.. The primary aim of all militaries world over is to prevent military Wars - so does IA.

Coming to the crux of my point; what the hell are all these tanks for? They're certainly not for deterrence - you don't need THIS many tanks to deter Pakistan, nor do you need another 400 new ones. It also isn't deterring them from carrying out their 3 decade old subconventional war anyways. Your tanks didn't stop the Parliament Attack, they haven't solved J&K, they couldn't stop 26/11, and they can't even prevent Uri, Pathankot and Pulwama.

So either use them - hence the exasperated suggestion to at least invade Pak after buying all this hardware - or stop buying new ones and pissing away money which is in short supply already. Because to be very honest, currently they're just sitting and rusting.

 

[Immanuel]

Sad news, RIP to the brave Paras who laid down their lives. Glad to see the Pigs were dispatched to hell.

Some say there were trainees or early graduates among them, well completion of probation doesn't mean they are fully ready. After probation comes real-life ops and their training continues for another 4 years at least. This is when they visit different battle schools at different locations to enhance their training in between deployments.

COIN ops in extreme terrain, the climate is always difficult regardless of years of training, the terrain, surroundings provide great equalizing advantages to the enemy. Keep in mind those are not regular pigs. They too are trained to basic commando level training, they don't send regular run of mill pigs for high altitude crossings. The altitude is around 10K feet.

Those courageous ones fought till their last breath, in the face of bad luck/timing, they made sure those Pigs got halaled.

Drones with thermals, night vision alone won't help in those high altitude forests, we need foliage penetration radars on those drones. Not sure if there are small backpackable drones that have those sensors yet on the market.

 

[ArgonPrime]

What's the point of posting memes from 2012 on this group? Stick to the topic.

Wow, so you've been categorizing the memes by their year of origin?? Quite a nice life you have there, bud.