Indian Special Forces (archived)

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

But do they pass selection? - if not then why Balidan?

Yes they do thatswhy they are given the balidan badge.

I think most of these canidates would be airborne qualified before going for the probation.

 

[IndiaRising]

not an SF, but the deeds and exploits are no less than SF warriors.

 

[Lupus]

In every battalion there are medics and EME personnel attached to the MI Room and the MT.

In SF battalions they too undergo probation and are hence given the SF badge.

Thanks. So these guys are not SF combatants, just the support staff who are technically still a part of their parent regiment.

But what if some PBOR chap from the EME/AMC volunteers for SF selection, will he too be given a chance like any infantryman and eventually get absorbed into SF as a combatant on passing the probation ?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Thanks. So these guys are not SF combatants, just the support staff who are technically still a part of their parent regiment.

But what if some PBOR chap from the EME/AMC volunteers for SF selection, will he too be given a chance like any infantryman and eventually get absorbed into SF as a combatant on passing the probation ?

These are volunteers only.And thats what they will do in the sf units.

Army would never waste their technical knowledge and let them just be a normal operator.

Like i said earlier there are no GUCCI decisions in the Army.

Doing that will waste lacs of rupees Army spent on training them earlier. So they use them in both ways.

Like i am from a science background and if i i join the army the army would discourage me from joining infanfry.

They would want me to become a techie or atleast join Armoured corps if i still insist on joining a fighting arm

 

[Lupus]

These are volunteers only.And thats what they will do in the sf units.

Army would never waste their technical knowledge and let them just be a normal operator.

Like i said earlier there are no GUCCI decisions in the Army.

Doing that will waste lacs of rupees Army spent on training them earlier. So they use them in both ways.

Like i am from a science background and if i i join the army the army would discourage me from joining infanfry.

They would want me to become a techie or atleast join Armoured corps if i still insist on joining a fighting arm

That makes a LOT of sense. I'm assuming that they do however participate in active operations every once in a while ?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

That makes a LOT of sense. I'm assuming that they do however participate in active operations every once in a while ?

Even the cook is combat ready in SF.

 

[Lupus]

Even the cook is combat ready in SF.

Yeah but being combat ready isn't same as actively participating in ops even if occasionally.

Moreover, my confusion was primarily about the operator still wearing EME (beret insignia + shoulder titles) despite having passed the probation /Vs/ Knowing that EME officers start wearing Parachute regiment beret and PARA shoulder titles after passing the probation.

There seems to be different procedures for EME Officers and PBOR regarding their absorption in the SF.

Also, EME officers after passing probation can stay permanently as opposed to PBOR only allowed to do tenures (not sure about this one, perhaps you'd know ?)

So I'm not really sure about the nature of their association with the SF. Do they only perform technical roles while just being combat ready ? Or are they PRIMARILY involved in tech but do occasionally participate in field ops ?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Yeah but being combat ready isn't same as actively participating in ops even if occasionally.

Moreover, my confusion was primarily about the operator still wearing EME (beret insignia + shoulder titles) despite having passed the probation /Vs/ Knowing that EME officers start wearing Parachute regiment beret and PARA shoulder titles after passing the probation.

There seems to be different procedures for EME Officers and PBOR regarding their absorption in the SF.

Also, EME officers after passing probation can stay permanently as opposed to PBOR only allowed to do tenures (not sure about this one, perhaps you'd know ?)

So I'm not really sure about the nature of their association with the SF. Do they only perform technical roles while just being combat ready ? Or are they PRIMARILY involved in tech but do occasionally participate in field ops ?

Combat doesnt mean firing tavor in close quarters only.There are many aspects.That way the radio operator is also not doing any combat?

Rest there are two types of induction ..one is permanent in nature and the other one is a deputation.

I dont know about the officer wearing the Para SF or Eme beret.. never came across this scenario but all i i know is that balidan badge and special forces tab is not distributed for free without probation.

 

[rkhanna]

not distributed for free without probation.

And Probation happens after 6months of Combat or 1 year of training post selection and AFTER all the operators/officers in the team have signed off on you.

So its a big frigging deal.

 

[ALBY]

Just met brother of 9 para operator with 21 years of service in the SF.

 

[Ujjain]

This old India Today article is a good read regarding the current discussion.


*****
Why Indian Army Special Forces are way behind US Navy SEALs or Israel's IDF despite upgrade

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar sanctions purchase of critical equipment worth Rs 300 crore of Indian Army Special Forces, but sources say the elite units will still fall behind their American and Israeli counterparts.

The procurement would help the Special Forces get equipment to carry out their task more effectively. But if we compare our troops with the US Navy SEALs or Israeli special operatives, India is behind them by decades in equipment and technology.

"In terms of toughness, we are far better than them. However, it is technology, equipment and thought process where we lag far behind them," said a Special Forces officer who trained with American soldiers in the US. "When they go for operations, they are backed heavily by drones and satellites to enhance their domain awareness."

The newly raised 11 and 12 Para (SF) units were also deployed with normal infantry weapons such as the AK-47 and INSAS rifles to carry out operations in the Northeast and did not even have enough weapons.

SF operatives say during corps and command-level exercises on China border, a senior commander recently asked how deep could they go inside China and the reply was, "as deep as our feet can take us". The Special Forces have been demanding special platforms like the V-22 Osprey helicopter of the US, which can quietly take small teams in and out of terrain such as Tibet where enemy units are 100-150 kms from Indian boundaries.

"A proposal was moved for buying such a dedicated aircraft but it was shot down at the level of army headquarters itself," a source from Para Special Forces said.

India bought the C-130J special operations aircraft from the US in 2007-08 but they can be used for airdropping para commandos and are not suitable for surgical strikes.

"If we compare the SEALs operation where they took out Laden, they silently flew inside the heart of Pakistan and took him out in Special Operations Black Hawk helicopters. We can only boast of Mi-17V5 transport choppers which too are not dedicated for us," another officer said

*****

The issue lies with our officers and politicians using our SF guys as commandos and super infantry guys. Every op being done today in the valley can be handled by RR but God knows why our SF guys have to be sent everytime we see more then a couple of millitants. Senior retired SF guys are extremely against expansion of SF units but their voices are insignificant. The problem lies with our elite guys becoming airborne Infantry guys and dilution of elite nature of their ops. Very few people people in this country know about the ops done by 9 para post 1969 and before 1980 and that kind of elite nature of ops our forces need to focus on. It's the nature of ops that make elite units "ELITE" , otherwise they are just light infantry guys. And as far as sexy gears are concerned, we have them with some of our guys but not with regular SF units.

 

[ALBY]

The issue lies with our officers and politicians using our SF guys as commandos and super infantry guys. Every op being done today in the valley can be handled by RR but God knows why our SF guys have to be sent everytime we see more then a couple of millitants. Senior retired SF guys are extremely against expansion of SF units but their voices are insignificant. The problem lies with our elite guys becoming airborne Infantry guys and dilution of elite nature of their ops. Very few people people in this country know about the ops done by 9 para post 1969 and before 1980 and that kind of elite nature of ops our forces need to focus on. It's the nature of ops that make elite units "ELITE" , otherwise they are just light infantry guys. And as far as sexy gears are concerned, we have them with some of our guys but not with regular SF units.

What 9 and 10 had done between 71 and blue star? Any idea @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @abingdonboy.
I assume they were involved in NE ops, but not much is available in public domain.

 

[aditya g]

What 9 and 10 had done between 71 and blue star? Any idea @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @abingdonboy.
I assume they were involved in NE ops, but not much is available in public domain.

Dont forget Punjab.

especially Op Bluestar

 

[rkhanna]

What 9 and 10 had done between 71 and blue star? Any idea @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @abingdonboy.
I assume they were involved in NE ops, but not much is available in public domain.

Well dont know about specific Units but SF/Sunray (- Original name of SG) were very active inside the newly formed bangladesh, trained up the LTTE and ended up fighting them. SF were in Iraq as advisors fighting the Iranians and spent alot of time in various African countries as well. Indian SF/SG and Intelligence have been rumored to have deployed to Uganda also when Idi Amin was persecuting Indians. Supposedly they did pass on some pieces of Intel to the Israelis for Thunderbolt. And dont forget when the 5thSFG first landed in Afgstan to take the fight to Mazar Sharif it was Indian SF that did the hand over with General Dostum etc and the NA before they exfiled the country.

Maybe in the next 20 years someone will write a book. Unfortunately my family members are deadset against stuff like that

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

What 9 and 10 had done between 71 and blue star? Any idea @rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @abingdonboy.
I assume they were involved in NE ops, but not much is available in public domain.

I don't think there was anything in that period.

 

[rkhanna]

Well Blue star was in 84 - Indian Presence has been there smatteringly across Africa, ME (Iraq, Syria etc) and South Asia (Bangla, LTTE, etc) during that time.

SOF is not always offensive operations. FID used to be an Indian Intel/SF specialty back when we lead the non align movement.

 

[samsaptaka]

.... trained up the LTTE and ended up fighting them.

Any more details on this ? Why did we do that ? My knowledge is bad on this subject.

 

[Ujjain]

I don't think there was anything in that period.

The only thing I can tell you is that they were deployed deep in enemy territory for intel driven ops to get hints of their ongoing capability build up and in later phases and when they started to be used as super infantry, they were used to hunt enemy agents inside and outside our country and that was perhaps the last time we used our SF guys to their true capability. Later we started to use them more for direct action and rarely intel driven and intel collection jobs.

 

[Ujjain]

Well Blue star was in 84 - Indian Presence has been there smatteringly across Africa, ME (Iraq, Syria etc) and South Asia (Bangla, LTTE, etc) during that time.

SOF is not always offensive operations. FID used to be an Indian Intel/SF specialty back when we lead the non align movement.

Man! You know some stuff...........

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

The only thing I can tell you is that they were deployed deep in enemy territory for intel driven ops to get hints of their ongoing capability build up and in later phases and when they started to be used as super infantry, they were used to hunt enemy agents inside and outside our country and that was perhaps the last time we used our SF guys to their true capability. Later we started to use them more for direct action and rarely intel driven and intel collection jobs.

Thats sad that more cannot be shared because either the timeline or the unit or the ops are wrong..or maybe all.(confusion)

I know exactly what we did in Africa,Iraq(i personally know the instructors and they defined the arabs as ghaday coz they were slow),i know when we started messing with Khalistan ie Army and what they did.. and also know about LTTE..