Indian Special Forces (archived)

[rkhanna]

I would say both. But I wonder why are they so intent on using SSG as cannon fodder rather than true tip of the spear.

Or are they labelling any half-trained infantryman as SSG?

Well i dont think SSG are being used as Cannon Fodder. They are infiltrating a Mix Bag of Jihadis to pursue assymetrical warfare against India. They sit in advisor/baby sitter roles till the Jihadis are across or Will work in Bat Teams to hit our patrols. So they are pursuing their Govt/Militaries SOF taskings in their own way


PS My two cents. Discount/ under estimate the SSG at your own peril.

 

[ArgonPrime]

AFAIK atleast front line units Optics have been given (various level of tech generation) atleast 1 or 2 at a Squad Level. At the very least - SF / Ghataks will have them in higher concentration

Well, that's good for a start.

Body armour is a trickey one

1) our body armour needs serious upgrade - But even post the upgrade (the best Gucci Kit) Armour will still be heavy to be runing up and down the mountains next to the LOC

OF course it will be heavy unless and until we make some quantum leap in material sciences.
Now, I ca not comment on the quality of the inserts produced in country since I have no means to test them myself.But even the latest plate carriers themselves (like the Bhaba Kavach for example) are disappointing to say the least!!I sometimes I wonder if these folks dwell inside a chrysalis or something.I mean the least they can do is watch a few youtube videos and optimize their chest rig design with proper ergonomics, like adding pals fitments and stuff, pretty basic stuff. But no, they will keep living in their little caves and sew a few ammo pouches on the rig here and there.

What we need is a quantum leap in Combat First Aid etc - We lack basic things like quick clot. All we do is a makeshift patch up and then send the poor bloke on a stretch to a helicopter to be sent to base. We have no ability (training) to do battle field surgery/triage in an emergency situation.

Absolutely but one think I need to mention and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think quick clot can help treat puncture wounds but then again, I'm not so sure.

I think that is one place that gets left out in prioritizing training..

So true.

 

[rkhanna]

Absolutely but one think I need to mention and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think quick clot can help treat puncture wounds but then again, I'm not so sure.

I believe if it can if the bullet is a through n through. But that was just an example. i have frigging Quick Clot in all my car's emergency kits . Its bloody basic and we still dont have.

Our combat medics / Corpsmen / SF Operator Medics are trained only in basic emergency first aid. You better the level of their training and you will end up saving more lives.


And YES out kit today even some of the new ones we have seen from a load bearing perspective / from a weight perspective is actually counter intuitive.

 

[ArgonPrime]

I believe if it can if the bullet is a through n through. But that was just an example. i have frigging Quick Clot in all my car's emergency kits . Its bloody basic and we still dont have.

I get your point now.

Our combat medics / Corpsmen / SF Operator Medics are trained only in basic emergency first aid. You better the level of their training and you will end up saving more lives.

Yeah, last time I checked, we are still using cotton and medical spirit where as the whities have moved on to this -
And he's not even SF!!WTF!!I mean wreally, WTF!!I mean they could just watch these videos to get the basic idea about what's happening outside our country!!I mean that's the least they can do, right??!!

And YES out kit today even some of the new ones we have seen from a load bearing perspective / from a weight perspective is actually counter intuitive.

Well, what else can be expected when our units can't even maintain basic uniform standardization to the point where they end up looking like a bunch of mercs than an actual professional army.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Well i dont think SSG are being used as Cannon Fodder. They are infiltrating a Mix Bag of Jihadis to pursue assymetrical warfare against India. They sit in advisor/baby sitter roles till the Jihadis are across or Will work in Bat Teams to hit our patrols. So they are pursuing their Govt/Militaries SOF taskings in their own way


PS My two cents. Discount/ under estimate the SSG at your own peril.

SSG,Light Commando Battalion,regulars and mujahid battalion are the mix which help the terorists cross over.

Depending on the task the team is formed.Some operations with priority are the task of SSG men like lets say beheadings and post raids.

While getting them to cross over is with the mujahids,regulars and the LCB.

 

[Waanar]

I get your point now.

Yeah, last time I checked, we are still using cotton and medical spirit where as the whities have moved on to this -
And he's not even SF!!WTF!!I mean wreally, WTF!!I mean they could just watch these videos to get the basic idea about what's happening outside our country!!I mean that's the least they can do, right??!!

Well, what else can be expected when our units can't even maintain basic uniform standardization to the point where they end up looking like a bunch of mercs than an actual professional army.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f7R8c8rIg4


After seeing this, doesn't your soul cry?
Just a lil?

 

[ArgonPrime]

By the way guys, doesn't it seem like the army is moving backwards in terms of head protection by switching to PASGT type helmets from the present Patka??What's your take in it?? @rkhanna , @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

After seeing this, doesn't your soul cry?
Just a lil?

A-How much will it cost to equip entire Para SF like this?

B-Very expensive.

A-Still how much?

B-Well..worth 15-20 T90 tanks maybe.

A-

 

[ArgonPrime]

After seeing this, doesn't your soul cry?
Just a lil?

I've watched those clips and no, my soul doesn't cry..................cause it died right after I finished watching.

 

[ArgonPrime]

A-How much will it cost to equip entire Para SF like this?

B-Very expensive.

A-Still how much?

B-Well..worth 15-20 T90 tanks maybe.

A-

We've got our priorities all fucked up, wouldn't you say??Or we just don't care about human lives since we've got too much of it.
By the way, we don't even need to reduce our order book for T 90s or anything else for that matter to be able arrange the necessary resources.All the government needs to do is just scrap the practice of license production right away, and most of the budgetary issues will cease to exist almost overnight.

For example, we've been license producing tanks and fighters and helis for devil knows how many decades and it hasn't helped our in-house development projects for shit!!All it ever did was made us pay hefty licensing fees to the OEMs and incur additional costs for setting up of new production lines.

And it just doesn't end there, oh no.The products our factories produce under license actually costs a lot more than it would have costed had they been purchased directly from the OEM. Take the Su 30MKI case for example, a HAL produced MKI costs nearly 3 times as much as one bought directly from Russia!!
The same is true for T 90S tanks [and to add insult to injury, the ones produced by the OFB are of inferior qualities since the 'desi' T90s are still being fitted with 80s era 2A46M main gun (the same one from T 72M1) as we couldn't secure a license for the M2 version, which means our 'desi' T 90s can not handle higher chamber pressure which is necessary to fire newer more powerful APFSDS rounds.]

What should have been done was to do away with this utterly wasteful practice of producing whole things under license from scratch and instead, to buy directly from the OEMs and contracted them to set up MRO and spare production facilities in the country.That could have saved us a lot of time and money, which then could be used to equip our infantry to an optimum level.
One need not be some Amartya Sen of an economist to figure this out, you just have to have some common sense.Any man with half a brain could've figured it out but common sense it seems, doesn't come so common to us.

 

[rkhanna]

By the way guys, doesn't it seem like the army is moving backwards in terms of head protection by switching to PASGT type helmets from the present Patka??What's your take in it?? @rkhanna , @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

I have no issue against the PASGT or any of the new Gen Helmets that MKU make.

You have to always balance protection with mobility - Keep in mind with all the gear (possibly) that can be lashed onto a helmet from optics, to Comms, to torches, cameras, batteries, beacons the helmets get heavier.

You cant have something like the Patka + all the add ons and expect a soldiers neck not to give way. Mobility also adds to the survivability of a soldier.

 

[ArgonPrime]

I have no issue against the PASGT or any of the new Gen Helmets that MKU make.

You have to always balance protection with mobility - Keep in mind with all the gear (possibly) that can be lashed onto a helmet from optics, to Comms, to torches, cameras, batteries, beacons the helmets get heavier.

You cant have something like the Patka + all the add ons and expect a soldiers neck not to give way. Mobility also adds to the survivability of a soldier.

I get that but at least the ones involved in CT ops shouldn't be made to switch to the PASGT style helmets as an ill-fated MARCOS operative found out during an encounter when his helmet got punctured twice by AKM rounds.Had he been wearing a Patka, he would still be alive.

 

[rkhanna]

I get that but at least the ones involved in CT ops shouldn't be made to switch to the PASGT style helmets as an ill-fated MARCOS operative found out during an encounter when his helmet got punctured twice by AKM rounds.Had he been wearing a Patka, he would still be alive.

Look sometimes its the luck of the draw. When its your time its your time. AKM Rounds through the head are rare so the question is does an operator give up his speed and mobility and fatigue in the off chance that he may survive a head shot?

NOW assume he was wearing a patka that took 2 762/39 rounds direct hit (and assume it was sub 300ms). I can guarantee you that even if he survived instant death his life there after would still be fucked. TBI (Traumatic brain injury) is a real thing.

A number of operators i know have preferred lowering the weight burden of their body armour to take more rounds etc or just be faster.

So this is an existentialist debate IMO.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Look sometimes its the luck of the draw. When its your time its your time. AKM Rounds through the head are rare so the question is does an operator give up his speed and mobility and fatigue in the off chance that he may survive a head shot?

NOW assume he was wearing a patka that took 2 762/39 rounds direct hit (and assume it was sub 300ms). I can guarantee you that even if he survived instant death his life there after would still be fucked. TBI (Traumatic brain injury) is a real thing.

A number of operators i know have preferred lowering the weight burden of their body armour to take more rounds etc or just be faster.

So this is an existentialist debate IMO.

Couldn't have summed it up better. By the way, I've heard of at least one RR NCO who got shot in the head by AKM in pretty close range and his Patka saved his life and he's still serving.But then again, it might very well be that the bullet impacted at an awkward angle which saved him from any type of serious long term effects, who can tell?But I get your point.

 

[abingdonboy]

Another day, another sh!tty Indian SF unit.

this time at the 2019 joint ex with Maldives army


Crap helmet, crap plate carriers, crap uniforms, no comns, no “special” equipment. These guys are just infantry with Tavors now.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Another day, another sh!tty Indian SF unit.

this time at the 2019 joint ex with Maldives army


Crap helmet, crap plate carriers, crap uniforms, no comns, no “special” equipment. These guys are just infantry with Tavors now.

Correction - NO plate carriers.

 

[abingdonboy]

Correction - NO plate carriers.

Moronic or what?

then some wonder why Indian SF casualty rate is so disturbingly high.

armed forces swallow up >$50bn USD/year (including pensions), almost half of this to the army and this is the product? Meanwhile ISRO’s entire budget is less than $2bn annually and they are truly world class- would never use that term to describe Indian military. Every major city in India could be linked with HSR within 10 years if armed forces were disbanded and not 1 penny would be needed from abroad to finance it (JICA loan is paying for MUM-AHD HSR).

The more I see, the more I see there’s a deep underlying sickness present inside Indian mil, colonial era mindset hasn’t been shed. The “leadership” still practicing what they were taught 100++ years ago from their British masters. They speak with upper class accents and know how to hold cutlery and glasses appropriately when they come out of OTA and IMA but they haven’t got a single clue how to fight in the 21st century.

They then get duped by Russians selling their outdated junk or think they can dupe the taxpayers with how inefficiently they are spending their budgets.

It’s been fine until now when India’s main threat has come from Pakis and their jihadi proxies with AKs and IEDs but when India’s armed forces get into a real conflict with, say, the Chinese military that ARE modernising and that ARE aware of their weaknesses and quickly filling them all those good for nothing “commando” drills and pathetic warfighting capabilities are going to exposed and exposed badly. Then let’s see how high the Josh will be.


@Gessler post that video where TONBO CEO is accurately calling out and humiliating IA leadership for how backwards they are.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Moronic or what?

then some wonder why Indian SF casualty rate is so disturbingly high.

armed forces swallow up >$50bn USD/year (including pensions), almost half of this to the army and this is the product? Meanwhile ISRO’s entire budget is less than $2bn annually and they are truly world class- would never use that term to describe Indian military. Every major city in India could be linked with HSR within 10 years if armed forces were disbanded and not 1 penny would be needed from abroad to finance it (JICA loan is paying for MUM-AHD HSR).

The more I see, the more I see there’s a deep underlying sickness present inside Indian mil, colonial era mindset hasn’t been shed. The “leadership” still practicing what they were taught 100++ years ago from their British masters. They speak with upper class accents and know how to hold cutlery and glasses appropriately when they come out of OTA and IMA but they haven’t got a single clue how to fight in the 21st century.

They then get duped by Russians selling their outdated junk or think they can dupe the taxpayers with how inefficiently they are spending their budgets.

It’s been fine until now when India’s main threat has come from Pakis and their jihadi proxies with AKs and IEDs but when India’s armed forces get into a real conflict with, say, the Chinese military that ARE modernising and that ARE aware of their weaknesses and quickly filling them all those good for nothing “commando” drills and pathetic warfighting capabilities are going to exposed and exposed badly. Then let’s see how high the Josh will be.


@Gessler post that video where TONBO CEO is accurately calling out and humiliating IA leadership for how backwards they are.

Tell that to our resident 'Lal chiriya', Bhadra ji. By the way mate, remember Omega007 from the PDF days??That's me.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Self deleted due to accidental double posting.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Another day, another sh!tty Indian SF unit.

this time at the 2019 joint ex with Maldives army


Crap helmet, crap plate carriers, crap uniforms, no comns, no “special” equipment. These guys are just infantry with Tavors now.

Ohh they are good..you are watching just too much Hollywood.. watch local Indian movies instead okay.