Indian Special Forces (archived)

[rkhanna]

They are not a conventional sf force,per se.

They are more like the murican swat teams
And That's what they made for.

Its our fallacy to think of them as a conventional sf force rather than a police force.

Sorry but that is not Correct at all.

The NSG is a Counter Terrorism and Hostage Rescue Special Mission Unit and as such comes under the gambit and strategic tasking of a Special Operations Unit.

The Global Equivalent to the NSG are NOT SWAT Teams. BUT

- FBI HRT
- GSG-9
- GIGN
- S0/CO19

There are Military Special Operation Unit and there are Paramilitary (Police Special Operation Units but they still hold the same water.

The NSG answers directly to the Cabinet Secretariat on Security and the NSA. It is directly plugged into into the National Security Grid INCLUDING Military intelligence as well as the SPG and the SPG Counter Assault teams.

You dont get more strategic than the NSG in India. They are a very much Special Operations Unit.

PS just as a point most people who try out for FBI HRT are ex seals, rangers, MARSOC etc etc. They have a pass percentage of 10% in selection.

 

[Holy Triad]

The NSG is a Counter Terrorism and Hostage Rescue Special Mission Unit and as such comes under the gambit and strategic tasking of a Special Operations Unit.

I'm not questioning what they have been tasked with,but my assessment come from what they have deliverered in the past.

Anyway my point here is not to diss them,as a civvy I know I do not have any moral right to criticize them. But,I just merely answering the issue raised by @ALBY . Where he said an ips officer shouldn't lead an sof, for that i replied that nsg is essentially made out domestic hm forces, hence its appropriate for an ips to lead the nsg.

FBI HRT

Yup, I agree,comparing with swat is too reductive and the hrt is an equivalent brethren.

But I still maintain ,its not an sf unit imo.


SF units have much more crucial,hardcore roles than wearing outfits,banging doors.

For example,recon capabilities,which may not be glamorous but it's an impossible task for nsg alike teams.


Anyway,that's my take as a civvy keyboard warrior.

 

[Gessler]

Disappointed by the look of the AFSOD element in the exercise. But then again, one must admit it is too soon to see any major uniformity ( "operator standard" ) across the personnel coming from three services. From the looks of it, they just clobbered together whatever equipment was available in their armories.

At this stage, the exercises are unlikely to test anything other than the most basic principle to adhere by - jointmanship. With the exception of ANC, there is very little to no instance at all in the entire Indian military establishment where you have units from Army, IAF, IN working together on the ground employing small unit tactics while being commanded by the same authority.

This is a very important aspect to build up. It alone could take years to instill - its against the very fibre of being of existing personnel from, say, the Army to be ordered around on the ground by a Navy commander.

That said, I'm yet uncertain regarding exactly what level of jointmanship they are looking to accomplish here. Individual SMUs from various services being under one overarching Command structure is what JSOC/SOCOM are about. On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if, perhaps by some misguided assessment, we are looking at taking jointmanship to a rather absurd level by developing a single Composite SMU which will incorporate personnel from all services...like, picture a 6-man DEVgroup (ST6) team, but 2 of them are from Delta and 1 or 2 from USAF Special Tactics.

So far I was lead to believe based on media reports so far that though it will comprise of personnel from 3 branches, the contingents from each branch will be distinct entities under AFSOD, and still remain within the administrative control of their parent branch though operational control lies with AFSOD commander. That's how it is in JSOC.

Anyway, I'd again reiterate it's too early to say. If I'm disappointment by the arrangement, I will certainly voice my concern in a detailed manner. However, I must say I'm not in a position to say that just yet.

But that's all regarding organizational structures...coming to such things as equipment, again I'm disappointed but I can't really say this was unexpected. The unit is still in baby steps, and we know for a fact that wish-lists from SF in the recent past (for SCAR rifles, NVGs etc from US) did not clear DAC table back then and haven't gone through since then either, unless they went totally under my radar, so this is hardly a surprise. But we do know there is intent behind this (adoption of new-gen equipment), so if not today, then it will happen tomorrow, rest assured.

Plus, we have new platforms entering service with the regulars which are likely to draw AFSOD attention as well. So I'd say that I don't expect AFSOD to shape up to be a truly modern, uniform force (not each service's contingent sporting its own gear and just working under same command) anytime before 2022 at the earliest.

These things take time, and given the fact this modernization of equipment has not been successfully implemented in the past in the parent service's own SFs either, this path will incorporate a lot of trial and error as well.

Bottom-line, I'd say....Too early to celebrate, too early to criticize.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Man, this is a very poor excuse.
It's not like Tavor fires some super duper nuclear charged round. There's no point in getting AKM when the standard issue weapon, the one they're trained on, is Tavor and M4a1.
Even if it's the most basic of the basic infantry training, there should still be a similarity to live-fire situations.
The only similarity with reality I see is that diver's pervert smile like he's going to rape some Jihadis.

View attachment 39463
If it was like, preparation for something like weapon familiarization with the shittiest thing you can find doing FID, it's understandable.
Anything else and it makes no sense.
I mean... just borrow something from RR, will you?

We are taking baby steps here. Getting three different units to work and think as one is the first step. Creating a core of Officers and NCOs who develop this warrior culture and can work independently from their mother units.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Disappointed by the look of the AFSOD element in the exercise. But then again, one must admit it is too soon to see any major uniformity ( "operator standard" ) across the personnel coming from three services. From the looks of it, they just clobbered together whatever equipment was available in their armories.

At this stage, the exercises are unlikely to test anything other than the most basic principle to adhere by - jointmanship. With the exception of ANC, there is very little to no instance at all in the entire Indian military establishment where you have units from Army, IAF, IN working together on the ground employing small unit tactics while being commanded by the same authority.

This is a very important aspect to build up. It alone could take years to instill - its against the very fibre of being of existing personnel from, say, the Army to be ordered around on the ground by a Navy commander.

That said, I'm yet uncertain regarding exactly what level of jointmanship they are looking to accomplish here. Individual SMUs from various services being under one overarching Command structure is what JSOC/SOCOM are about. On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if, perhaps by some misguided assessment, we are looking at taking jointmanship to a rather absurd level by developing a single Composite SMU which will incorporate personnel from all services...like, picture a 6-man DEVgroup (ST6) team, but 2 of them are from Delta and 1 or 2 from USAF Special Tactics.

So far I was lead to believe based on media reports so far that though it will comprise of personnel from 3 branches, the contingents from each branch will be distinct entities under AFSOD, and still remain within the administrative control of their parent branch though operational control lies with AFSOD commander. That's how it is in JSOC.

Anyway, I'd again reiterate it's too early to say. If I'm disappointment by the arrangement, I will certainly voice my concern in a detailed manner. However, I must say I'm not in a position to say that just yet.

But that's all regarding organizational structures...coming to such things as equipment, again I'm disappointed but I can't really say this was unexpected. The unit is still in baby steps, and we know for a fact that wish-lists from SF in the recent past (for SCAR rifles, NVGs etc from US) did not clear DAC table back then and haven't gone through since then either, unless they went totally under my radar, so this is hardly a surprise. But we do know there is intent behind this (adoption of new-gen equipment), so if not today, then it will happen tomorrow, rest assured.

Plus, we have new platforms entering service with the regulars which are likely to draw AFSOD attention as well. So I'd say that I don't expect AFSOD to shape up to be a truly modern, uniform force (not each service's contingent sporting its own gear and just working under same command) anytime before 2022 at the earliest.

These things take time, and given the fact this modernization of equipment has not been successfully implemented in the past in the parent service's own SFs either, this path will incorporate a lot of trial and error as well.

Bottom-line, I'd say....Too early to celebrate, too early to criticize.

Gucci Gear was cleared in July 2019. Refer to my post. Main concern is interoperability.

 

[IndiaRising]

people in this thread have watched too many Hollywood movies..

 

[Knowitall]

people in this thread have watched too many Hollywood movies..

It's not Hollywood movies all people here want is our bravehearts to have the best equipment so that they have a better chance to execute the message.

 

[rkhanna]

Reading the news articles and comments on other forums I think that we are reading SOD wrong

It is not a unit (tier 1 or otherwise). It seems it's more like an incubation experiment that will lead to a command. Garud Marcos SF will continue to remain seperate

IF that is the case then this is an interesting experiment/concept and quiet jnnovative.

Gear / kit / tactics can be experimented with within the SOD and then validated and rolled out unit wise.

In that case. Not bad

 

[IndiaRising]

It's not Hollywood movies all people here want is our bravehearts to have the best equipment so that they have a better chance to execute the message.

Para SF operated in the valley during the 90s in a high risk environment with far less than what they have today and pulverized every single jihadi coming out from Pakistan. to have keyboard warriors questioning their capabilities is quite amusing.

 

[12arya]

Guys, let's not jump the guns. Give them some time.

Despite having a govt made up of traitors & italian mob, ruling us for so long who tried to dismantle our military, tried everything in their powers to blunt our soldiers by not procuring any weapons for decades....yet our forces were always there for us & never failed us...It was only our soldier's guts and bravery that won us wars!

Remember, our military has to make up decades of neglect by khangress. Some of the eco system of traitors r still up there at the top. We all know how much Gen.VK Singh was hounded by the italian mob.

so let's trust them to do the right things and give a bit of time.

 

[ALBY]

Guys, let's not jump the guns. Give them some time.

Despite having a govt made up of traitors & italian mob, ruling us for so long who tried to dismantle our military, tried everything in their powers to blunt our soldiers by not procuring any weapons for decades....yet our forces were always there for us & never failed us...It was only our soldier's guts and bravery that won us wars!

Remember, our military has to make up decades of neglect by khangress. Some of the eco system of traitors r still up there at the top. We all know how much Gen.VK Singh was hounded by the italian mob.

so let's trust them to do the right things and give a bit of time.

Please leave your politics out of this thread. You are not the sole one who got political opinions.If every one started expressing their politics in such military threads then the whole idea of this thread is going to get ruined.There are ample threads outside this for debating which party is more shittier.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Please leave your politics out of this thread. You are not the sole one who got political opinions.If every one started expressing their politics in such military threads then the whole idea of this thread is going to get ruined.There are ample threads outside this for debating which party is more shittier.

Ab baat to sahi kahi hain Madam ne!

 

[Waanar]

I'm not questioning what they have been tasked with,but my assessment come from what they have deliverered in the past.

Anyway my point here is not to diss them,as a civvy I know I do not have any moral right to criticize them. But,I just merely answering the issue raised by @ALBY . Where he said an ips officer shouldn't lead an sof, for that i replied that nsg is essentially made out domestic hm forces, hence its appropriate for an ips to lead the nsg.



Yup, I agree,comparing with swat is too reductive and the hrt is an equivalent brethren.

But I still maintain ,its not an sf unit imo.


SF units have much more crucial,hardcore roles than wearing outfits,banging doors.

For example,recon capabilities,which may not be glamorous but it's an impossible task for nsg alike teams.


Anyway,that's my take as a civvy keyboard warrior.

FBI HRT has been in Afghanistan, attached to 75th Ranger Regiment (With a casualty in public domain) and while details are murky, I've heard of attachments with Delta as well. HRT is far more than outfits and fatal funnels.

 

[Holy Triad]

FBI HRT has been in Afghanistan, attached to 75th Ranger Regiment (With a casualty in public domain) and while details are murky, I've heard of attachments with Delta as well. HRT is far more than outfits and fatal funnels.

So,what if they are deployed with sf units? So Now they become sf units?

Also,I'm not here to defend or discuss about murican MO.

I could easily pick a hole in your argument n dance till it reaches 3million pages. Stay with topic.

 

[ALBY]

So,what if they are deployed with sf units? So Now they become sf units?

Also,I'm not here to defend or discuss about murican MO.

I could easily pick a hole in your argument n dance till it reaches 3million pages. Stay with topic.

FBI HRT indeed is a Tier-1 with most of the training regimes modelled on Delta or Devgru (not Green Berets or Normal Seals). In the urban warfare they are considered somewhat better than even both Delta and ST-6.Dont confuse them with normal Swats.
They are more or less comparable with Israeli Yamam or Gsg-9.

 

[Holy Triad]

FBI HRT indeed is a Tier-1 with most of the training regimes modelled on Delta or Devgru (not Green Berets or Normal Seals). In the urban warfare they are considered somewhat better than even both Delta and ST-6.Dont confuse them with normal Swats.
They are more or less comparable with Israeli Yamam or Gsg-9.

Sir,with all due respect,why are we diving into the discussion of an foreign entity.

In My earlier post, I stated my position on these groups through my civvy knowledge,that too related with nsg... Nothing more to it.

Then @rkhanna brought HRT out for comparison sake,for that purpose alone, I agreed that nsg have some similarities between them...


HEREAFTER,IF ANYONE STARTING TO QUOTE ME ON FOREIGN GROUPS,I'LL START IGNORING THE POSTER,AS I DON'T WANT TO DERAIL THE INDIAN SPECIAL FORCES THREAD.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG Commando standing guard during R-Day 19, New Delhi

H&K Mp5A3 with Zeiss Red Dot Sight
Glock 19 Compact Pistol

 

[12arya]

Warriors of a 'special' kind

Eye on target: 10 Para (SF) commandos during training


Every man we meet in our life is fighting his or her own battle on different fronts. Each battle offers us two choices—either break down or break records, says the Special Force commando. Some of these invisible and unsung heroes tell us how they broke records and why is it so important to stay the course. While there are no records kept of them, what they leave behind are legacies of warriors of a 'special' kind.

1:

In 2014, Captain Vishwas was doing his routine para jumps at Agra when he suffered a parachute emergency. He fell from a height of 200 feet and suffered burst fractures in his spine among other injuries. “When I regained consciousness, the first thing I realised was that I couldn't move. Only my hands were moving. I told myself that I will be able to do something in my life since my hands can move,'' said Vishwas. The officer was evacuated to Delhi and metal implants were used to prop up his spine again. He underwent a long process of recovery but the doctors were still not ready to upgrade his medical category. That would have meant that he could never be a paratrooper again. For a paratrooper it is mandatory to undergo refresher jumps periodically. Vishwas was adamant. From leaving his wheelchair to take his first steps and swimming 3.5 km non stop within a year, the paratrooper not only got his medical clearance but returned to his battalion. He chose to do his para jump on the same date he had got injured, three years later. “God is kind, he gave me a chance to come back,'' says the braveheart.

2:

Captain David was born in a small village in Manipur where olive green-dressed people would pop up out of no where. Their presence always preceded movement of insurgent groups through the village. As children, David and his friends would run around admiring their weapons. Devoid of all comforts of life, the parents wanted their children to be part of a better world when they grow up. David was sent to Imphal to pursue his studies and he started visiting home on two occasions—summer break and New Year. One day when he came home, he found his hamlet had been burnt . The area had witnessed violence due to ethic clashes and David's family was forced to hide in the jungle. “That winter, the Christmas carols we sang in the jungles were the best carols I had ever sung ,'' he said. David went to Chennai to pursue higher studies. “It was in Chennai that I got a chance to interact with people coming from different states. I had the experience of tying a lungi, speaking Tamil and also growing a mustache,'' he said. Soon, he joined the Officer Training Academy in Chennai. “It is here I realised that men are made out of boys and groomed to lead others. The drill, endless physical training and the sleepless nights toughened me up,'' he said. During the passing out parade at the academy, David was awarded the Sword of Honor and he got a chance to command the parade. On completion of his training, he opted for the Special forces and wore the coveted maroon beret. Major David is one of the ace commandos of 10 Para today.

3:

Major Vijay Tejpal is a phoenix that literally rose from the ashes to become a hero. On December 15, 2011, Major Tejpal was undergoing the Ghatak course at Belgam. The gruelling 40-day course is mandatory for all infantry officers. The officer was doing extremely well on the course. During the battle obstacle course test, he broke his leg at multiple places. The doctors told him he may never be able to walk again. He was being advised to switch from Special Forces to Ordnance or Supply CORPS. But Tejpal did not wish to be anything but a paratrooper. After one year of rehab, he went back to Belgam to complete the Ghatak course. Tejpal stood first in the course. ''Things will go wrong sometimes but one should never give up,'' he says. Today, Tejpal is an asset for his force.

 

[Holy Triad]

I had the experience of tying a lungi, speaking Tamil and also growing a mustache,'' he said.

..................................

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

NSG Commandos during CQB training in Kill house

H&K Mp5-A5
Sig 552/553 Commando

( Old photo 2015 )