Indian Special Forces (archived)

Status
Not open for further replies.

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
4,257
Likes
18,272
Country flag
more gibberish absent of any logic from the teenage schoolgirl who just wants to keep putting nonsense on the thread to measure his dick.

I'm done wasting time with you itty bitty bitchy boy. keep living in your armchair general's paradise and jack off thinking about lobbing grenades into rooms.

Adding you to my ignore list.
Rooms haha.. story pata hein nhi bakchodi karne aa jatay hein... Para is under RR!!

I am glad u won't be replying again.. coz if u had 10 percent knowledge about Army i would have replied and explained to u who Para and Marcos are under.. but since u r not worthy i didn't even go there.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
4,257
Likes
18,272
Country flag
Completely agree with what you said.

Unfortunately, there are people here who think they know better, and act like teenage schoolgirls when they discuss about the latest popstar's life gossip based on what they read in the newspaper that day on page 3.
If your pocket money is enough go and read the book rather than sounding like a ignorant.

Kind suggestion.
 

armyofhind

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,554
Likes
2,957
Country flag
coz if u had 10 percent knowledge about Army i would have replied and explained to u who Para and Marcos are under.. but since u r not worthy i didn't even go there.
abey kaun se bahaane bana raha hai chhote bacchon vaale. School se baahar nikal chhote aur bada ho jaa.
Nhin pata toh bol de nhin pata. Ye chhote bacchon vaale bahane mat de.
 

armyofhind

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,554
Likes
2,957
Country flag
oh so i am not blocked haha

can i send u the book..u should read it
I have read the book dont worry.
Unlike you, Shiv Aroor hasn't made me his cuck that I take everything he says as a command to be followed.
Ja general general khel le uske saath. Phir hila ke so jaa.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
4,257
Likes
18,272
Country flag
I have read the book dont worry.
Unlike you, Shiv Aroor hasn't made me his cuck that I take everything he says as a command to be followed.
Ja general general khel le uske saath. Phir hila ke so jaa.
You have read the book and u think encounter took place in a room... then you think Para is deployed under RR.. and so is Marcos.

The only cuck i see here is you... someone with such a shallow confidence in life who gets offended by someones views so much so that he starts abusing. That too without knowing what he is talking about.
 

armyofhind

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,554
Likes
2,957
Country flag
You have read the book and u think encounter took place in a room
the encounter took place in a built up area where a house was cordoned off. You were the one advocating the lobbing of grenades into it to kill the terrorists, not me. Ab tujhe memory loss bhi aa gaya lagta hai.

then you think Para is deployed under RR
I said that Para doesnt have operational control or the autonomy of operating as they want and are tasked by the Officer- In-Charge for either time sensitive ops, or to handle situations outside the ambit of RR.

The only cuck i see here is you...
phir se bacchon vaala behaviour. Unable to come to terms with your own actions, but then lacking the sense to come up with something of your own.
someone with such a shallow confidence in life who gets offended by someones views
someone with such a shallow confidence in life who gets offended by someones views
I put forth my views quite nicely at the start. You were the one who got offended and then started name calling. Toh cuck main hua ya tu?
that he starts abusing
As per your behaviour, Cuck is hardly an abuse for you.

You are the one taking everything written in the book as gospel.

Either you lack the basic sense to take material in a book written by a journalist belonging to a channel that likes to sensationalize daily news with a pinch of salt, or Shiv Aroor HAS in fact made you his cuck and now you will do promotion for him using his material as absolute fact, wherever you go.

Even if it comes down to uninformed and uncalled for nitpicking of the actions of an elite warrior in combat. You decide what is the state of affairs with you now.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
4,257
Likes
18,272
Country flag
the encounter took place in a built up area where a house was cordoned off. You were the one advocating the lobbing of grenades into it to kill the terrorists, not me. Ab tujhe memory loss bhi aa gaya lagta hai.


I said that Para doesnt have operational control or the autonomy of operating as they want and are tasked by the Officer- In-Charge for either time sensitive ops, or to handle situations outside the ambit of RR.


phir se bacchon vaala behaviour. Unable to come to terms with your own actions, but then lacking the sense to come up with something of your own.


I put forth my views quite nicely at the start. You were the one who got offended and then started name calling. Toh cuck main hua ya tu?

As per your behaviour, Cuck is hardly an abuse for you.

You are the one taking everything written in the book as gospel.

Either you lack the basic sense to take material in a book written by a journalist belonging to a channel that likes to sensationalize daily news with a pinch of salt, or Shiv Aroor HAS in fact made you his cuck and now you will do promotion for him using his material as absolute fact, wherever you go.

Even if it comes down to uninformed and uncalled for nitpicking of the actions of an elite warrior in combat. You decide what is the state of affairs with you now.
Leave the rest...

Para are deployed only and only by higher ups and never by RR CO or Coy Co.

Unless and until either RR CO thinks its beyond his limitations and he asks for Support. Which is never the case afaik.

Brigade Co is the guy who decides to use SF depending on the op.

Para are never deployed under any RR battalion. They have their own RR battalion.

For special ops Ghataks are deployed.Most of the RR units have local JAKLI and JAKRIF guys who do undercover ops.

Para Co operators dislike working with infantry guys as the think they are superior to them which they are and hence they have trust issues.

Most of Para SF ops are on LOC and most of RR ops are inside the valley.
 

abingdonboy

New Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
8,084
Likes
33,803
Country flag

#NEOps Troops of #IndianArmy in a joint #Op with Assam Police apprehended a ULFA(I) cadre with arms & ammunition from Kathalguri Reserve forest on 11 Oct. The apprehended individual & the recoveries have been handed over to police for further investigation

Looks like 21/12 Guys in action
Oh ffs ‍♂

I honestly can’t believe what I am seeing with these guys these days. I Remember when I used to talk about their sh!tty equipment and be told “this is just for show, when they do real world ops they have different gear and they are keeping their real abilities secret” yeah well here is a real world op and look at this crap. Rubbish uniform with the poorest plate carriers and load carrier I’ve seen in a while. These guys have been surpassed by quite some distance by even regular RRs units let alone Ghataks now!

it looks like they give an infantryman a Tavor/M4 and say “you’re a special forces operator now”

like I said I’m utterly unable to believe how bad it is getting.

100% we will see the same rubbish during the upcoming VAJRA PRAHAR ex and another chance to be embarrassed in front of US SF.

NSG Commandos
View attachment 39318
During Gandhi Jayanti
View attachment 39319
During 68th R-Day Parade
View attachment 39320
During Mock Drill in 2016
NSG are one of the few reasons to smile on this thread.

seemingly making progress year after year and seem to be doing the “right” things for their role when you hear of them.
Hate me..curse me but on a big day your team has guys wearing different shoes... awesome!!
yeah I noticed that too, beyond pathetic. They don’t have spares? They don’t co-ordinate their dress or they just don’t generally care? Either way not indicative of a professional unit at all.

but then at least there’s 6 Garuds in one place and not 7 different uniforms like you would see up until very recently. So I guess that’s progress?
 

rkhanna

New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,307
Likes
12,282
Country flag
You guy's are doing name picking and calling a martyr that he did this mistake and all. He should have done that etc isn't it disgraceful? People always try to do there best when they are in combat everyone wants to save there life and act accordingly to there training and mistakes in operation everyone does that.
Whole kargil war could have been solved in minutes if government allowed a airstrikes. Gear or not but troops have to act with or without helmet or without night vision what is the mistake of soldiers? It's the government to blame that they are unable to provide basic stuff to the forces.

People on this forum bitching about our martyrs mistakes showing that they were not good etc is disrespectful.
He was a warrior who gave life for the country. Only few have balls to do that. Respect.
I'm not picking up fight with anyone but this how i feel.
Few things. My opinion only (no need to take them to heart)

1) NOBODY is "name calling" any soldier. What is happening is we are calling into question poor organizational systems / selection process /training that is getting men killed. People doing their best is NOT an excuse. For too long have our military commanders and political leadership counted on the young / poor of our country continuously throwing themselves to save the country. Like you said Kargil is a great example.

And for the record - the Government is not to blame. the first blame lies with the Army CO up and down the line. Ironically the same Generals who started out as Buck Lieutenants. Nobody has the balls to change.

PLEASE FOR GODS SAKE stop absolving the military of its responsibilities and fuck-ups.

And lets stop this attitude of blaming everyone except the one person/institution that fits our ideological/emotional/sentimental narrative. learn to be objective and use reason

2) Not questioning our military and not holding them accountable to the public (within reason) has become one of the primary attitude problems that prevents our military from learning or improving. Today most generals and AFM and Admirals are busy protecting their careers and turf than carrying for their men. We have been more interested in handing out medals than doing a AAR and dissecting and passing on lessons learnt.

Our political leadership does not understand Military matters, the Civilan think tanks are overrun by special interest groups and the Military itself operates in an Echo chamber making dumb mistakes with no accountability.

We change tactics ONLY when we start loosing men (makes a CO look bad)

Quick question - the Airman was clearly (in my arm chair opinion) displaying PTSD due to the loss of his colleagues. His wife said it, his team mates and CO said it. That PTSD possiblly lead to emotional instability (god only knows) and got him killed.

Was there a mental eval/ review of the airman? Was he of sound mind and body not to endanger himself or other soldiers? If he was unfit - he shouldnt have been sent out on the op. Unfortunately we dont have ANY such review mechanism within our military.

3) Lastly - this low brow Fallacy of Argument of equating criticism as "Disrespectful" or "Anti-National" or "Anti Army" has got to bloody stop. Such arguments devalues any conversation or analysis and serves ZERO purpose other than fostering an Ostrich Mentality.
 

rkhanna

New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,307
Likes
12,282
Country flag
its fairly easy to make dissected arguments from the comfort of your home guys. Nobody knows what actually went down.
Kind of the whole point of a Military Forum on the Internet?

I have been training survival Combatives and Kali for five years atleast four days a week, real authentic training. I can say that with authority because I learn from the very man who teaches the SF their close quarters system. But even today, in a simulated sparring session against multiple people, its only instinct which drives your motion. Where/How you hit, whether you hit or back up.. its all instinct and your assessment of the situation.
I would like to disagree here.

For any ordinary human instincts prompt movement. For Soldiers and SPECIALLY SOF it is ALWAYS ALWAYS training. The whole point of Training is to overcome instinct. Because instrincts driven by emotion can betray you.

PS - I am 36, i have trained in Vale Tudo, Greco Roman Wrestling and Jujitsu since i was in 9th grade. You trained till the training became second nature and took over muscle memory. The idea was to override instinct
 

rkhanna

New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,307
Likes
12,282
Country flag
Cultural Differences between DEVGRU and Delta - applicable leasons for SOD?

https://sofrep.com/23799/cultural-differences-between-delta-force-and-seal-team-six/

"
Both units operate in the same spectrum of special operations, counterterrorism, hostage rescue, direct action, and counter-proliferation. Most of the time they can be interchangeable with one another. Both units have been widely known to conduct exchange programs with one another.

The team that I worked with in Iraq had a SEAL Team Six sniper attached to them. He defended an Iraqi police station from being overrun by insurgents during the Battle of Mosul, in 2004, from a hotel rooftop. To answer your question, yes, he was a badass. In a place like Iraq where most of the combat was conducted in urban and close quarters environments, you really can’t tell the difference between a Delta operation verses a SEAL Team Six operation.

Afghanistan has shown to be a different case. Many times during an assault against an objective in the rugged mountains of Afghanistan, a simple clandestine HVT (high-value target) snatch-and-grab operation can turn into a major ambush. When this happens, the operation just turned conventional.

There is no “special” way to react to an ambush or contact that is taught only to SOF units and kept hidden from other units. React to ambush is a basic infantry battle drill, and when the shit hits the fan, you better believe a Delta operator will be doing the same thing an 11-Bravo private from the 101st is doing on an Afghan objective somewhere else.

Here is where some of the cultural differences play a major part in how both units operate.

The vast majority of Delta are infantrymen by Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), or were infantrymen at some point in their careers. SEALs are not and never were infantrymen, nor have they ever spent time training as infantrymen; they are a maritime Special Operations force that focuses on direct action and special reconnaissance.

To put it best, my good friend, a squad leader with the Rangers, who has hit countless objectives side-by-side with SEAL Team Six expresses that the unit is incapable of making the switch from operators to basic infantry grunts when the need to do so arises. It’s not a fault of the unit, but simply a by-product of where the shooters were “raised.” (During my time in Afghanistan, I never was on an Afghan objective with Seal Team Six, although I did get my feet wet in Iraq with Delta.)

As this became an issue, especially with the resurgence of the Taliban en masse circa 2008, JSOC commanders created a very symbiotic relationship between SEAL Team Six and the Rangers. The two units complemented each other and have had a very close relationship in Afghanistan ever since.

Hope this paints a non-classified picture of the fundamental differences between AFO Neptune and AFO Wolfpack. See what I did there?

One team, one fight. Tombstones don’t have unit designations."


IMO this is one place where both Garud and Marcos will suffer within SOD. Will be very interesting to see how SOD will turn out as one unit rather than three complementary entities.

Also interesting point on the roles of Rangers within JSOC
 

rkhanna

New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,307
Likes
12,282
Country flag
I was reading up on the 24th STS (JSOC) - While everyone knows ST6 and Delta there are other tier one units of JSOC - ISA, Special Recon Company (74th Ranger Reg), 160th SOAR.

One of them is the 24th STS and something Garud (within SOD) should evolve towards.

The 24th STS - It is a tier one unit that is comprised of Pararescuemen (PJ), Combat Controllers (CCT), Tactical Air Control Party (TACP) Airmen, and Special Reconnaissance (SR). They either deploy in cohesive teams or as individual attachments to other Special Mission Units , such as Delta Force or SEAL Team 6.
 

armyofhind

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,554
Likes
2,957
Country flag
Kind of the whole point of a Military Forum on the Internet?
Sure. I'm not objecting to discussing or criticising tactics, policy, equipment levels or sundry other such topics.

But the boots on the ground are not to blame for this. An SF Operator doing his mission is not to blame for the level of kit he is carrying into ops.

The actions of Corporal Nirala in this case being discussed as if everyone was there and they saw a whatsapp call coming on his mobile, or they know exactly how the terrorist came out of the house and exactly how Cpl Nirala thought that yes I have to take revenge and fuck the officers orders and charged into them.
It's a fucking book for god's sake. Written by a masala author. Take it with a pinch of salt. It's not gospel.

And that guy gave his life trying to stop terrorists in a situation about which nobody knows the exact details. Even if he disobeyed orders to not go ahead let's say, perhaps he saw something in that moment beyond the scope of what's written in the book or is public knowledge. Similar to what WC Abhinandan did. Perhaps he saw that the yahoos might escape.

The whole point of Training is to overcome instinct.
You can never overcome instinctive response. You can tailor it to suit the end goal you're trying to achieve.
The best CQC systems in the world, actual systems, not sport oriented, exploit this very phenomenon. Whether it's Krav Maga, Pekiti or Rapid Assault Tactics ( or Progressive JKD, if you will). Frankly speaking I don't get the point of learning a martial art for sport but anyway, that's highly subjective to the individual. When someone throws a punch at your head, your instinctive response is to throw your hands up. That's reflex. With training, you can tailor that towards sectoring the punch and setting up joint breaks, that is the way of Kali or JKD atleast.
 

rkhanna

New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,307
Likes
12,282
Country flag
But the boots on the ground are not to blame for this. An SF Operator doing his mission is not to blame for the level of kit he is carrying into ops.
Nobody blames soldiers for poor kit or poor training etc etc

The actions of Corporal Nirala in this case being discussed as if everyone was there and they saw a whatsapp call coming on his mobile, or they know exactly how the terrorist came out of the house and exactly how Cpl Nirala thought that yes I have to take revenge and fuck the officers orders and charged into them.
It's a fucking book for god's sake. Written by a masala author. Take it with a pinch of salt. It's not gospel.
The Disclaimer to take with a pinch of salt BECAUSE it is a book was already given. The arguments were based on the hypothesis that it DID happen. nothing more nothing less. its mental masturbation. However - Aroor quotes His Wife, teammates and CO regarding his anger and obsession. Which is a Red Flag

You can never overcome instinctive response. You can tailor it to suit the end goal you're trying to achieve.
The best CQC systems in the world, actual systems, not sport oriented, exploit this very phenomenon. Whether it's Krav Maga, Pekiti or Rapid Assault Tactics ( or Progressive JKD, if you will). Frankly speaking I don't get the point of learning a martial art for sport but anyway, that's highly subjective to the individual. When someone throws a punch at your head, your instinctive response is to throw your hands up. That's reflex. With training, you can tailor that towards sectoring the punch and setting up joint breaks, that is the way of Kali or JKD atleast.

Highly Highly disagree. Instincts often end up as garbage and often get centered around Biases. Training helps Remove Bias.

Dont confuse Experience with Instinct.

Tier I units shoot 300+ rounds a week so that moving shooting and communicating become second nature and they operate out of training even when things go side ways. Instinct can only take you so far and often ends up becoming a hurdle.

Ask any Para SF instructor, NSG Instructor

anyways OT and not for this thread.
 

MrPresident

New Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2016
Messages
447
Likes
1,010
Country flag
Here is my take and I am an arm chair "captain".

Special forces operators are special not because get access to special equipments, because the way they think and act when push comes to shove. Mental toughness, ability to think by keeping emotions in check is a basic quality of any soldier but a special forces operators should be above these average soldiers.

I was watching a documentary on OBL raid, there was a comment which stood out, there was no high fives or celebration after the raid, it was just another mission done, nothing more nothing less.

Loosing a brother on the field must have been painful, but I felt the emotion took over late corporal Nirala coz he was not accustomed to field operations. This should be a learning for Garuds. A RR grunt would know how to deal better with the loss as he would be more experienced while facing the situation everyday.

I have read the book and what he did was incredibly brave. It's just that his judgement would have been better if he wasn't emotional and may be he would have lived to tell the tale.

My question is, would it not be better served for Garuds to compliment PARA instead of embedded with RR?

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
New Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
1,609
Likes
5,849
Country flag
Few things. My opinion only (no need to take them to heart)


And for the record - the Government is not to blame. the first blame lies with the Army CO up and down the line. Ironically the same Generals who started out as Buck Lieutenants. Nobody has the balls to change.

PLEASE FOR GODS SAKE stop absolving the military of its responsibilities and fuck-ups.

2) Not questioning our military and not holding them accountable to the public (within reason) has become one of the primary attitude problems that prevents our military from learning or improving. Today most generals and AFM and Admirals are busy protecting their careers and turf than carrying for their men. We have been more interested in handing out medals than doing a AAR and dissecting and passing on lessons learnt.
3) Lastly - this low brow Fallacy of Argument of equating criticism as "Disrespectful" or "Anti-National" or "Anti Army" has got to bloody stop. Such arguments devalues any conversation or analysis and serves ZERO purpose other than fostering an Ostrich Mentality.
Very true This ! Generally people in our country think Military is God , but they are humans too.
I too had the same attitude, but after reading this forum (esp. this thread !) I realise that not to point fingers at military higher ups for some of the ills in the army is akin to blind jingoism.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
4,257
Likes
18,272
Country flag
Very true This ! Generally people in our country think Military is God , but they are humans too.
I too had the same attitude, but after reading this forum (esp. this thread !) I realise that not to point fingers at military higher ups for some of the ills in the army is akin to blind jingoism.
Thank you for bringing the point.

This thread is full of blind Patriots with zero knowledge who cant accept any opinion which doesnt match their own.

And in real life i hate such kind of yes man..they are worst for any job.
 

armyofhind

New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,554
Likes
2,957
Country flag
Highly Highly disagree. Instincts often end up as garbage and often get centered around Biases. Training helps Remove Bias.

Dont confuse Experience with Instinct.

Tier I units shoot 300+ rounds a week so that moving shooting and communicating become second nature and they operate out of training even when things go side ways. Instinct can only take you so far and often ends up becoming a hurdle.
instinct would be the wrong word to use for what I meant. What I meant was reflex. You cannot override a reflexive response. And shouldnt as well as far as training in martial arts is concerned.
Tailoring that reflex through correct training to suit your end objective is the best course since you're already exploiting the fastest response your body has.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top