Indian Special Forces (archived)

Status
Not open for further replies.

rkhanna

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
3,307
Likes
12,281
Country flag
I also feel that the concept "life is cheap" in India is now fully engrained in our Military as well.

Keep throwing bodies we will eventually win. And as they fall more will take their place.

Whitey on the other hand will go to great lengths to protect loss of life (their own) . Tech evolutions such as the UAV and armed drones and all the Gucci gear comes from that mindset.
 

ALBY

Section Moderator
Mod
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
3,646
Likes
7,109
Country flag
Amen. Like I said in my previous post . There is no room for emotion such as revenge etc etc in the middle of a goddamn op. These are SOF for fucks sake.

I also have a feeling that with letting younger people join ranks there is an erosion of ethos taking place. (My opinion only) but it started with the conversion of infantry units to SF.

In the 90s the joke used to be that even the cooks in SF ran selection ( which they did. Not to get selected but to show solidarity with the shooters )
All these years i didnt get the logic of converting an infantry regiment into SF. There have been ample allegations that the standards were lowered so that maximum numbers qould clear the tests. Why no one thought about converting existing regular paras into SF and convwrting some infantry to Para airborne?Still that wont guarantee you get required number of able men.
 

Assassin 2.0

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
6,087
Likes
30,705
Country flag
After surgical strike and all. Hype for special forces and all is increased in india too they are famous now. In past i don't think anyone cared about special forces and all. just like what western nations are boosting for a long time. In video games movies etc.
I think to protect the hype and reputation of the special forces they will update the gear and all. I think currently NSG are pretty well equipped. And well confident recently in siri lanka attacks government was ready to send them to handle the situation there.

Our counter insurgency mission capabilities are increased by many fold in kashmir RR is doing precise operations with terrorists on the daily basis. India is fighting counter insurgency for a long time and is battle hardened in that area.

In 26/11 i don't think work of NSG was bad they were just late. But it's the government to blame for not placing one NSG squadron in Mumbai.
 
Last edited:

Assassin 2.0

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
6,087
Likes
30,705
Country flag
I remember a speech of modi which he made when he was with troops on the occasion of Diwali he said it's true that our country is not rich it's poor but my government will do everything in its power to provide good gear to the armed forces.

And this is the reality we all want to see a RR soldier equipped to the level of NATO troop but can we afford it? Money is the reality. Till the time economic strength doesn't increases armed forces have to manage. Countries like Australia spend 4 billion to get Gucci gear for it's special forces that's why they look dope can india afford it?
And improvements are happening but best thing is to keep expectations real with time india will also get world class gear and most probably it will be made in india too.
 

Noname34

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2019
Messages
32
Likes
117
Country flag
The problems that infect the special forces are due to a special problem that is too entrenched within Indians themselves.
That is the infamous 'chalta hai' attitude as in keep the status quo as much as possible and not try to rock the boat as much.
Which means that unless and until the devil comes over, drops his pants and takes a shit on right on the shoulders there is a refusal to pick up the sword or take any kind of initiative to ensure preemptive defence/prevention.
This attitude is prevalent throughout the country be it the economy/foreign policy/military (1962 war/NSG in 26/11 etc, take your pick).
The domain is irrelevant but the attitude is still the same, the irreparable damage that it has caused, it would take a long time (if ever!) to get things straight.
The ability to plan long term and look ahead to the future is almost non existent amongst the bureaucrats.

The odd ones out who do try to raise their voice against the status quo are completely sidelined.

I remember a speech of modi which he made when he was with troops on the occasion of Diwali he said it's true that our country is not rich it's poor but my government will do everything in its power to provide good gear to the armed forces.

And this is the reality we all want to see a RR soldier equipped to the level of NATO troop but can we afford it? Money is the reality. Till the time economic strength doesn't increases armed forces have to manage. Countries like Australia spend 4 billion to get Gucci gear for it's special forces that's why they look dope can india afford it?
And improvements are happening but best thing is to keep expectations real with time india will also get world class gear and most probably it will be made in india too.
While that is true, a huge amount of money can be saved if we started to rely on free market competition with full participation of the private sector instead of DPSU monopolies to arm the military, if Modi is really serious about what he said then he should take steps to ensure as much.

No matter how much money is thrown, the Indian military will never be equipped to the level it should be in proportion to its budget (best gear for money available) until the DPSU monopolies are ended and market competition allowed to bring down per unit prices, if not the DPSUs will keep charging more and more for the paperweights that they manufacture and the military will have no choice but to cough up the money.
End result? Soldiers never upgrade from the current type 74 helmets and somalian chest rigs.
 
Last edited:

Assassin 2.0

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
6,087
Likes
30,705
Country flag
The problems that infect the special forces are due to a special problem that is too entrenched within Indians themselves.
That is the infamous 'chalta hai' attitude as in keep the status quo as much as possible and not try to rock the boat as much.
Which means that unless and until the devil comes over, drops his pants and takes a shit on our shoulders we refuse to pick up the sword or take any kind of initiative to ensure to defend ourselves
This attitude is prevalent throughout the country be it the economy/foreign policy/military (1962 war/NSG in 26/11 etc, take your pick).
The domain is irrelevant but the attitude is still the same, the irreparable damage that it has caused, it would take a long damn time (if ever!) to get things straight.
The ability to plan long term and look ahead to the future is almost non existent amongst the bureaucrats.

The odd ones out who do try to raise their voice against the status quo are completely sidelined.



While that is true, a huge amount of money can be saved if we started to rely on free market competition with full participation of the private sector instead of DPSU monopolies to arm the military, if Modi is really serious about what he said then he should take steps to ensure as much.
1961 was a political defeat you cannot expect army to win wars if prime Minister of the country doesn't believe on keeping armed forces. And in 1947 too nehru found that Indian army is not capable and asked British to lead them in the war and result war in india was on peak and meanwhile Pakistanis and British were changing pleasantries.
At that time of army chief said to nehru that post of prime Minister is also new we should also give that to a brit.
After 1961 when india army clearly stated we will be out of politics. In 1965 our performance was good against much more Morden and well equipped Pakistani army in 1971 too. In 1999 even without air support IA captured the Kargil which was a extremely difficult thing to do because with every step death was waiting for the soldier.
In Kashmir we successfully stopped Afghanistani jihadi groups who were trying to capture areas of kashmir thousands of those guy's dead. Without destroying much of the valley unlike American and nato forces who can use airstrikes anywhere even on hospitals if they find a need. Or have full apache helicopter on there back.

Army learns from experience in past we tried to follow nato model which everyone loves here army replaced heavy calibre with 5.56 and now is disappointed going back to 7.62.

Government is trying hard and result can be seen on ground effort is done in creating bullet proof jackets in india. Improving gun manufacturing capability etc. But long way to go. Previous government of thief's tried everything to make sure armed forces stays weak and stay dependent on importing because it's a easy way to do corruption.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
8,082
Likes
33,765
Country flag
Is there any SF element in the Special Protection Group ?
As in....?


No special forces members serve in SPG, it s 100% drawn from CAPFs.

within SPG there are specialist teams though like Counter assault, counter sniper and special intervention unit and maybe one or two more that are yet to be publicly seen.
 

Popeye

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2019
Messages
209
Likes
487
Country flag
AFSOD is expected to serve as the main organisation responsible for carrying out special operations within and outside India.

If tomorrow terrorist attack happen in India either in military area or in civilian area, Whom govt will prefer to counter, AFSOD or NSG ??
 

Lupus

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
89
Likes
210
Country flag
As in....?


No special forces members serve in SPG, it s 100% drawn from CAPFs.

within SPG there are specialist teams though like Counter assault, counter sniper and special intervention unit and maybe one or two more that are yet to be publicly seen.
I meant just as NSG is primarily a special counter-terror unit but the Para(SF) presence in its ranks gives it a sort of SF capability, is there any SF presence in SPG as well but thanks for clarifying, it appears that there isn't or at least none that's publicly known.

What are the phantom units of NSG for ?
(I'm not sure if there are any phantom units or if it's just a tag for best performers)
 

Lupus

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
89
Likes
210
Country flag
If tomorrow terrorist attack happen in India either in military area or in civilian area, Whom govt will prefer to counter, AFSOD or NSG ??
I think even NSG needs to be brought under the ambit of AFSOD at some point, and AFSOD rather than just picking operators from tri-SFs should actually come up with a selection of its own and needs to make itself attractive enough for SF operators to want to join it. I'll even go so far as to say that if somebody from CAPFs or even the civilian arm of the state volunteers, and has the will and capability then he too should be given a chance to give it a shot afterall getting the best talent with unconventional bent of mind is what special operations need to excel.
 

12arya

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
4,208
Likes
15,083
Country flag
Operation Bluestar: The league of shadows


Special group commandos train at their base in Sarsawa

In early 1983, six army officers from a classified unit called the Special Group (SG) were flown to a secret base of Sayeret Matkal, the Israeli commando force that led the 1977 rescue of hostages from Entebbe airport in Uganda. The mission, coordinated by RAW with Mossad, was classified because India didn't have diplomatic ties with Israel and it did not want to anger its Arab friends. The officers trained in counter-terror-in carefully recreated landscapes of streets, buildings and vehicles-at the base near Tel Aviv for 22 days. The experience, an SG officer, now retired, recalls, was a culture shock for the Indians, coming as they did from a steeply hierarchical army: They were bemused to see women guarding Israeli Defense Forces headquarters and soldiers high-five their officers.


Special group commandos train at their base in Sarsawa

The newly trained officers would soon come in handy. New Delhi was hosting two summits in 1983 that would burnish Indira Gandhi's standing as a global leader-the Non-Aligned Summit in March and the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in November-and it was keen to prevent terrorist attacks of the sort that had bedevilled the West through the 1960s and 1970s. The summits passed without event under SG's watchful eye.

Special group commandos train at their base in Sarsawa, Uttar Pradesh,in 1984

SG was created in 1981. Till then, the Army had shown little interest in raising a specialised anti-terrorist force. So the government turned to the Directorate General Security, a covert unit set up by the Jawaharlal Nehru government with CIA's assistance after the 1962 war with China. The directorate, which had its own air wing, the Aviation Research Centre, and a paramilitary comprising Tibetans, the Special Frontier Force (SFF), was subsumed within raw when the external intelligence agency was created in 1968. In 1982, the directorate launched Project Sunray: It tasked a colonel of the Army's 10th Para/Special Forces to set up a unit of 250 officers and men, all Indians unlike SFF, in commando companies 55, 56 and 57.
The unit, housed in tents at the Sarsawa Indian Air Force base near Saharanpur in Uttar Pradesh and christened Special Group, operated under the RAW chief. raw wanted to train the unit's officers with SAS--SG officers had recommended it after a tour of the British agency's training facility at Hereford-but the government turned down the proposal, apparently due to the high training cost of 5,000 per trooper. SG improvised its own training regimen; being directly under the Prime Minister's Cabinet Secretariat helped. "We just had to ask for equipment and it would be given," recalls a former SG officer. A request for over 100 bulletproof vests and tactical helmets was met almost overnight and the gear flown in from Israel.


Two special group officers at the Golden Temple during Bluestar

SG was then prepared for Operation Sundown and, after it was aborted, for Bluestar. Following Indira's assassination, SG men protected Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi and his family until the government raised the Special Protection Group in 1985. Soon after, nearly 200 SG personnel were deputed to a new anti-terrorist force under the Union home ministry, the National Security Guard. The Special Group remains RAW's ultra-secret military unit for clandestine intelligence missions, the equivalent of CIA's Special Activities Division.
 

12arya

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
4,208
Likes
15,083
Country flag
Don't know if it is already posted here or not...

Special Group or 22 SF or The Mavericks



A pic of Special Group from the SFF Documentary
Indians know how to keep secrets and one of the secret reveal when the existence of SFF came into news and it spread like a forest fire, discussions taken place on social media and all over internet but in between those discussions pictures of soldiers with a badge which anybody have never seen before starts coming out and race amongst defence analyst and defence enthusiasts begin to identify the badge and its unit, the unit recognized as Special Group though of its information came out is negligible cause the force is well hidden till last 4-5 years. From its existence from 1981 to present the only information available is stated below.


SG operative shooting the target when his buddy standing just next to the target.


Special Group which is formed in 1981 as 4 Vikas of Special Frontier Force become a separate operation unit when Indian Army observe the risk of exposure of one of the many secrets of Indian Army, Special group become a separate special operation unit, they were basically created by a colonel of 10 para SF “The Desert Scorpions” under Project Sunray but unlike SFF who have Tibetans in all over the unit they are all Indians 250 in numbers and in 1983 6 officers of Special Group went to a secret base of Sayeret Matkal at a classified location but some sources said that it was near Tel aviv.

The thing is quite strange that why one of the most secret special operation units of the world agreed to train a newly formed unit of other nation which can cause damage to their covert game capabilities, the answer lies in the history when the heroic rescue by Mossad and Israeli Special Forces in Entebbe, Uganda where terrorist hijacked an Air France aircraft, at that it is believed that R&AW helped Mossad to get precise and precious intelligence to base the operation but the involvement of India remain a secret cause that time India don’t want to upset its Arab Allies and in the gratitude of the support provided by India in the operation Entebbe they trained our officers in various counter-terrorist and espionage skills they were trained for 22 days in various counter-terror ops, in different environments.

Special Group who are also known as The mavericks or 22 Special Forces or Super Para SF is basically a battalion-size force of officers and operatives came on deputation from different battalions Indian Para Special Forces, it is said that some special group operatives were merged with NSG when they formed to give them special operations expertise cause most of the NSG operatives are Central Action Police Force (CAPF) who have none or little knowledge of action. Special Group directly reports to RAW Chief, we can say that they kick doors for RAW and execute them who RAW find a threat to national security. Special group enjoy special privileges whatever they need they get it overnight, they are rich kids of India cause they have access to almost every weapon available in the world market.


Selfie by a Special group operative, arrow pointing towards SG insignia wore by SG operatives
Anyone can write thousands of articles glorifying any particular force but the real respect is earned by the deeds, The mavericks have record of doing the operation which even movie makers cant copy and how can they, their operations are classified as hell but when the unit is exposed, some of their operations, involvements, and operatives got some exposures, some are stated below :

Operation Bluestar : Operation Bluestar which is also known as operation Metal was a daring and stupid decision by military and political leaders, when leaders orders Indian Para Commandos to do impossible raid which have to be carried out without any heavy weapon support, without any armoured support from the main gate of the temple which is heavily guarded by the militants equipped with Kalashnikovs and RPG’s and the worst part is they have to raid the temple in a full moon night when the white marble of the temple give no chance of taking advantage of dark as cover to the commandos, at that time when para commandos were taking heavy casualties mavericks appear, they came with a plan which was not digesting to the officials present their, cause its special operation but it worked and special group got success to thin the résistance and made way for the force to operate further, Mavericks played the part for which they are created for and they had played their role in the most badass manner.

Mavericks were involved in Operation Meghdoot when Indian Army assisted by SFF volunteers and SG operatives raid Pakistani posts established in the area which was declared no mans land under several agreements between Indian and Pakistani Governments.


Operation CIT-J : – CIT-J was a special operation of the RAW in Punjab against Khalistanis. A group of about 350 SG personnel had helped the police in chasing the terrorists. They also conducted transborder Intelligence and subversive actions. This is not a permanent force. The SG personnel has been absorbed by the parent force, the SFF.In 1997, the former Indian Prime Minister IK Gujral had stopped some operations inside Pakistan and he stopped the SFF from operating near the border.


SG somewhere in Kashmir
Major Udai Singh: Major Udai Singh ,a braveheart maroon and one of the few proofs that Mavericks do exist

Major Udai served 5 years in 1st para SF than joined the Special Group Aka The Mavericks awarded by Sena Medal and Shaurya chakra, Major Udai Singh martyred on 26th November 2003 while fighting terrorist in the dense forest of Rajouri district of Kashmir and for this unmatchable bravery and courage he was awarded by Shaurya Chakra.


The braveheart Major Udai Singh

Major Amit Deswal : – Maj Amit Deswal was commissioned on 10 Jun 2006 into Regt Of Arty. After his basic service, he recognized that his calling is somewhere more adventurous. He opted for Special Group at first but finally opted and was selected and marooned into the coveted Special Forces.

He joined the elite unit in Jan 2011.He was physically robust which was reflected in his performance at the ‘Ghatak Course, where he secured ‘ Commando Dagger – Best Student’ at 8 years of service.

He got inducted in Manipur for Op Hifazat II in Jan 2016. After relentless hard work combined with a superior tactical acumen, the officer homed on to eliminate the leadership of NSCN K and ZNF cadres. With his Cdo spirit at the helm he followed them and in an ensuing gunfight on 13 April 2016, he sustained two GSW in the stomach. Despite grievously injured the offer shot down the top militant Cadres at last Light in Tamenglong District. The Braveheart breathed his last in the true traditions of a Warrior, a Commando, fighting till the End.




Late Major Amit Deswal, notice the SG badge
 

12arya

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2017
Messages
4,208
Likes
15,083
Country flag
Close encounters of the covert kind
An all-out war with Pakistan? Not feasible. Diplomatic offensive to isolate the enemy? Recommended, but may not be effective. Surgical air strike? Runs the risk of escalating tension. Covert operations? Good idea, but how battle-ready are our special forces? THE WEEK investigates
  • Till a few years ago, not even half a dozen cross-border sources or assets were available to Indian intelligence agencies.
At the height of the Kargil war in 1999, prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee summoned the director-general (security) at the cabinet secretariat for a one-to-one, hush-hush meeting. He had one question for the officer: Did he have men who could carry out an operation near Pakistan’s nuclear facility in Kahuta, located in the Himalayan foothills in their part of Punjab?

Soon after the meeting, a band of 40 bearded men in plainclothes left their base at Sarsawa in Saharanpur district in Uttar Pradesh for a remote location in Jammu and Kashmir, the terrain of which was similar to that of Kahuta. The men were part of the Special Group, India’s most elite special forces unit that was so discreet that it was considered nonexistent. Their objective: train for a suicide mission. “For almost 45 days, the men were made to run up and down the hills for the mission, which did not happen ultimately,” an intelligence officer who monitored them from Delhi told THE WEEK.

Months later, in December, the same men were placed on standby again. Terrorists had hijacked the Indian Airlines flight 814 and forced it to land in Kandahar in Afghanistan. Thanks to the efforts of officers of the Research and Analysis Wing, Iran had agreed to provide five helicopters for a planned strike on the hijackers.

Ajit Doval, the current national security adviser, was then in the Intelligence Bureau and was involved in coordinating the mission. The operatives were told to kill the Taliban members surrounding the plane, and make way for a crack team of the National Security Guard to storm the aircraft. “However, the mounting pressure from the families [of hostages] and television channels forced Vajpayee to take a call against the strike,” said the intelligence officer, who, at that time, was working closely with the Prime Minister’s Office. “Unlike today, we had the capability to strike back. The political leadership had the option of using a fully capable and proven strike force.”

The situation that India finds itself in, after the attack on the 12 Brigade headquarters in Uri in Jammu and Kashmir on September 18 this year, is very different from the crises in 1999. Perhaps, a parallel can be drawn between now and the situation after the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai. On the midnight of December 24 that year, the men, women and children in the border villages near Jodhpur in Rajasthan began packing their belongings to leave their homes for good. The reason: They had just witnessed fireworks like never before, and it wasn’t Diwali.

In New Delhi, a phone call woke up M.L. Kumawat, then director-general of the Border Security Force. On the other end of the line was an intelligence officer of the specialised G-branch of the BSF. “The villagers are leaving,” said the officer. “They say there has been a build-up of force on the Pakistani side and that the government is asking them to vacate their homes.”

Kumawat realised that the fear of war had gripped the villagers. He called officials at All India Radio and asked them to put out an announcement. “No communication has been received either by the BSF or the Rajasthan government for vacating any village along the border,” he said. “Such reports are designed to create panic where there is none.”


The following morning, the Union home ministry swung into action. Officers in forward posts were told to stamp out rumours of war, as the government knew the cost of escalating the border tension. “Once it starts, it is difficult to stop the firing,” Kumawat told THE WEEK. “One small incident can trigger a warlike situation. We can’t go by public outcry. I am glad that the Narendra Modi government has opted for a mature response.”

India’s response to the Uri attack has certainly been mature, with the government focusing on strategic and diplomatic offensives to isolate Pakistan. An all-out war has been ruled out, but plans of a more subtle kind are afoot. Intelligence officers are exploring the possibilities of carrying out covert, precision strikes on terrorist camps in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. Maps have been pulled out to mark coordinates of locations like 26/11 mastermind Hafiz Saeed’s proposed gathering in Karachi and the Jamat-ud-Dawa headquarters in Muridke near Lahore. The JuD is believed to be the parent organisation of Lashkar-e-Taiba, which carried out the Mumbai attacks.

India certainly has the resources, at least on paper, to carry out covert strikes in PoK (see graphics). But the question is which of the special forces should go in, and whether they are prepared enough. Given the circumstances and the terrain involved, the Special Group appears to be the obvious choice. The SG personnel are well trained and well equipped, and have proved their mettle both on foreign soil and within India. SG, based in Sarsawa in UP, was used extensively by prime ministers Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and Vajpayee for special operations in Kashmir and Punjab.

Staffed mostly by Para (Special Forces) officers of the Army, SG is directly under the command of the prime minister. “We were the first ones in the country to use AK-47 rifles, which were imported clandestinely from a European nation,” a former SG operative told THE WEEK.

SG’s list of successful ops is long. In the late 1980s, after Gen Hussain Muhammed Ershad captured power in Bangladesh, he held a political opponent in captivity. Even her life in prison was under threat. “The political personality was brought out from there by the Special Group under direct orders from the [Indian] prime minister,” said a source.

SG has also been used for black ops abroad. During the Indian Peacekeeping Force’s operations in Sri Lanka’s Tamil stronghold of Jaffna, SG provided training to members of the militant Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. The force was also involved in Operation Blue Star to flush out terrorists from the Golden Temple in Amritsar. Former SG operatives say that even though the 1 Para (SF) of the Army claimed that it had killed militant leaders J.S. Bhindranwale and his military chief, Maj Gen (retd) Shabeg Singh, their bodies were riddled with AK-47 bullets. Only SG used AK-47 then.

As home minister, L.K. Advani used SG to eliminate militants in Kashmir. “Both he and defence minister George Fernandes would visit the headquarters in Sarsawa to personally congratulate and encourage the men who were carrying out successful operations at short notice, away from public glare, and sometimes even beyond the boundaries of our country,” said the senior officer.

SG, however, has lost some of its bite in recent years. A senior Army officer who served in SG said the curtailing of funds for intelligence gathering and deep operations had affected the force. Apparently, the feud between Gen V.K. Singh, when he was Army chief, and his junior colleagues, had severely constrained the intelligence gathering capabilities of the Army. In 2012, post Singh’s retirement, the top-secret Technical Support Division led by Colonel Hunny Bakshi was disbanded.

Covert ops, such as the ones that India is considering in PoK, require the right mix of technology, equipment and actionable intelligence to succeed. But, with intelligence gathering in disarray, it remains doubtful whether India has it.


Call to arms: Militants raising anti-India slogans in Muzaffarabad in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir | AFP

To dismantle the terror infrastructure across the border, the special forces would first need to pin-point the location of terrorists. “We know these terror camps are not in pucca buildings,” said a former R&AW officer. “Often the satellite images give locations that are actually school buildings. How do we target them in such a case? Unless someone tells us where and when, it is very difficult to think of an aerial strike. If we send special forces to a pin-pointed location, we need to have deniability…. In case our man is caught, we lose all our credibility.”

Here is where moles and sources across the border become important. Till a few years ago, not even half a dozen cross-border sources or assets were available to Indian intelligence agencies. “We need to run our sources in the enemy territory and they should be able to carry out these operations by themselves,” said an officer of a border guarding force.

There is also the argument that the option of covert strikes within Indian territory is not well explored. “Covert operation does not necessarily mean that you have to cross the border,” said K. Srinivasan, former inspector-general who had worked in the intelligence wings of the BSF and the Central Reserve Police Force. “Along the border, there are a lot of elements who act as the support base for terrorists…. If we stamp out these elements, we can cut the oxygen supply of the terrorists.”

If the agencies know this formula, why do they fail to implement it? The answer takes us back to the basics. The demand of the intelligence wings for surveillance and interception capabilities has been pending for years. Currently, only law enforcement agencies and the Intelligence Bureau are allowed to intercept calls. The intelligence units of the forces deployed in Kashmir depend on other agencies for it. “As a result, there is a huge time lag, which is a big handicap for the troops on the ground. Any kind of covert operations cannot be carried out if real-time information is not available,” said an intelligence officer.

According to former home secretary G.K. Pillai, combining goodwill gestures with covert operations in conflict zones will increase manifold the chances of success. “Pakistan is carrying out aerial strikes in Balochistan. We have always enjoyed local support there but did not build on it. It is important to build on that goodwill today,” he said.

Kumawat cautions that while carrying out covert operations against Pakistan, New Delhi must keep in mind that it is in conflict with Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence and its military, and not its people. “If the people of Pakistan start feeling that the army and the non-state actors are not working in their interest, that will be our biggest victory,” he said.

Covert ops, however, do not offer a permanent solution to a problem that has festered over many decades, said Pillai. “Kashmir is the key,” he said. An officer who was part of many successful covert operations in the valley said if tourism is brought back, sports take place and development embraces Kashmir, India can even think of holding a plebiscite in the state. Will Pakistan hold a similar plebiscite in PoK? That day the war will be won.
 

Kra

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Messages
210
Likes
380
You guys should read posts of user falcon in forum stratfront . Usually he's quite reticent but today he's unusually pumped up.
His statements about the current govt and military allocation are very interesting. There are other interesting tidbits too
 

vampyrbladez

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
10,281
Likes
26,661
Country flag
Close encounters of the covert kind
An all-out war with Pakistan? Not feasible. Diplomatic offensive to isolate the enemy? Recommended, but may not be effective. Surgical air strike? Runs the risk of escalating tension. Covert operations? Good idea, but how battle-ready are our special forces? THE WEEK investigates
  • Till a few years ago, not even half a dozen cross-border sources or assets were available to Indian intelligence agencies.
At the height of the Kargil war in 1999, prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee summoned the director-general (security) at the cabinet secretariat for a one-to-one, hush-hush meeting. He had one question for the officer: Did he have men who could carry out an operation near Pakistan’s nuclear facility in Kahuta, located in the Himalayan foothills in their part of Punjab?

Soon after the meeting, a band of 40 bearded men in plainclothes left their base at Sarsawa in Saharanpur district in Uttar Pradesh for a remote location in Jammu and Kashmir, the terrain of which was similar to that of Kahuta. The men were part of the Special Group, India’s most elite special forces unit that was so discreet that it was considered nonexistent. Their objective: train for a suicide mission. “For almost 45 days, the men were made to run up and down the hills for the mission, which did not happen ultimately,” an intelligence officer who monitored them from Delhi told THE WEEK.

Months later, in December, the same men were placed on standby again. Terrorists had hijacked the Indian Airlines flight 814 and forced it to land in Kandahar in Afghanistan. Thanks to the efforts of officers of the Research and Analysis Wing, Iran had agreed to provide five helicopters for a planned strike on the hijackers.

Ajit Doval, the current national security adviser, was then in the Intelligence Bureau and was involved in coordinating the mission. The operatives were told to kill the Taliban members surrounding the plane, and make way for a crack team of the National Security Guard to storm the aircraft. “However, the mounting pressure from the families [of hostages] and television channels forced Vajpayee to take a call against the strike,” said the intelligence officer, who, at that time, was working closely with the Prime Minister’s Office. “Unlike today, we had the capability to strike back. The political leadership had the option of using a fully capable and proven strike force.”

The situation that India finds itself in, after the attack on the 12 Brigade headquarters in Uri in Jammu and Kashmir on September 18 this year, is very different from the crises in 1999. Perhaps, a parallel can be drawn between now and the situation after the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai. On the midnight of December 24 that year, the men, women and children in the border villages near Jodhpur in Rajasthan began packing their belongings to leave their homes for good. The reason: They had just witnessed fireworks like never before, and it wasn’t Diwali.

In New Delhi, a phone call woke up M.L. Kumawat, then director-general of the Border Security Force. On the other end of the line was an intelligence officer of the specialised G-branch of the BSF. “The villagers are leaving,” said the officer. “They say there has been a build-up of force on the Pakistani side and that the government is asking them to vacate their homes.”

Kumawat realised that the fear of war had gripped the villagers. He called officials at All India Radio and asked them to put out an announcement. “No communication has been received either by the BSF or the Rajasthan government for vacating any village along the border,” he said. “Such reports are designed to create panic where there is none.”


The following morning, the Union home ministry swung into action. Officers in forward posts were told to stamp out rumours of war, as the government knew the cost of escalating the border tension. “Once it starts, it is difficult to stop the firing,” Kumawat told THE WEEK. “One small incident can trigger a warlike situation. We can’t go by public outcry. I am glad that the Narendra Modi government has opted for a mature response.”

India’s response to the Uri attack has certainly been mature, with the government focusing on strategic and diplomatic offensives to isolate Pakistan. An all-out war has been ruled out, but plans of a more subtle kind are afoot. Intelligence officers are exploring the possibilities of carrying out covert, precision strikes on terrorist camps in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. Maps have been pulled out to mark coordinates of locations like 26/11 mastermind Hafiz Saeed’s proposed gathering in Karachi and the Jamat-ud-Dawa headquarters in Muridke near Lahore. The JuD is believed to be the parent organisation of Lashkar-e-Taiba, which carried out the Mumbai attacks.

India certainly has the resources, at least on paper, to carry out covert strikes in PoK (see graphics). But the question is which of the special forces should go in, and whether they are prepared enough. Given the circumstances and the terrain involved, the Special Group appears to be the obvious choice. The SG personnel are well trained and well equipped, and have proved their mettle both on foreign soil and within India. SG, based in Sarsawa in UP, was used extensively by prime ministers Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and Vajpayee for special operations in Kashmir and Punjab.

Staffed mostly by Para (Special Forces) officers of the Army, SG is directly under the command of the prime minister. “We were the first ones in the country to use AK-47 rifles, which were imported clandestinely from a European nation,” a former SG operative told THE WEEK.

SG’s list of successful ops is long. In the late 1980s, after Gen Hussain Muhammed Ershad captured power in Bangladesh, he held a political opponent in captivity. Even her life in prison was under threat. “The political personality was brought out from there by the Special Group under direct orders from the [Indian] prime minister,” said a source.

SG has also been used for black ops abroad. During the Indian Peacekeeping Force’s operations in Sri Lanka’s Tamil stronghold of Jaffna, SG provided training to members of the militant Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. The force was also involved in Operation Blue Star to flush out terrorists from the Golden Temple in Amritsar. Former SG operatives say that even though the 1 Para (SF) of the Army claimed that it had killed militant leaders J.S. Bhindranwale and his military chief, Maj Gen (retd) Shabeg Singh, their bodies were riddled with AK-47 bullets. Only SG used AK-47 then.

As home minister, L.K. Advani used SG to eliminate militants in Kashmir. “Both he and defence minister George Fernandes would visit the headquarters in Sarsawa to personally congratulate and encourage the men who were carrying out successful operations at short notice, away from public glare, and sometimes even beyond the boundaries of our country,” said the senior officer.

SG, however, has lost some of its bite in recent years. A senior Army officer who served in SG said the curtailing of funds for intelligence gathering and deep operations had affected the force. Apparently, the feud between Gen V.K. Singh, when he was Army chief, and his junior colleagues, had severely constrained the intelligence gathering capabilities of the Army. In 2012, post Singh’s retirement, the top-secret Technical Support Division led by Colonel Hunny Bakshi was disbanded.

Covert ops, such as the ones that India is considering in PoK, require the right mix of technology, equipment and actionable intelligence to succeed. But, with intelligence gathering in disarray, it remains doubtful whether India has it.


Call to arms: Militants raising anti-India slogans in Muzaffarabad in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir | AFP

To dismantle the terror infrastructure across the border, the special forces would first need to pin-point the location of terrorists. “We know these terror camps are not in pucca buildings,” said a former R&AW officer. “Often the satellite images give locations that are actually school buildings. How do we target them in such a case? Unless someone tells us where and when, it is very difficult to think of an aerial strike. If we send special forces to a pin-pointed location, we need to have deniability…. In case our man is caught, we lose all our credibility.”

Here is where moles and sources across the border become important. Till a few years ago, not even half a dozen cross-border sources or assets were available to Indian intelligence agencies. “We need to run our sources in the enemy territory and they should be able to carry out these operations by themselves,” said an officer of a border guarding force.

There is also the argument that the option of covert strikes within Indian territory is not well explored. “Covert operation does not necessarily mean that you have to cross the border,” said K. Srinivasan, former inspector-general who had worked in the intelligence wings of the BSF and the Central Reserve Police Force. “Along the border, there are a lot of elements who act as the support base for terrorists…. If we stamp out these elements, we can cut the oxygen supply of the terrorists.”

If the agencies know this formula, why do they fail to implement it? The answer takes us back to the basics. The demand of the intelligence wings for surveillance and interception capabilities has been pending for years. Currently, only law enforcement agencies and the Intelligence Bureau are allowed to intercept calls. The intelligence units of the forces deployed in Kashmir depend on other agencies for it. “As a result, there is a huge time lag, which is a big handicap for the troops on the ground. Any kind of covert operations cannot be carried out if real-time information is not available,” said an intelligence officer.

According to former home secretary G.K. Pillai, combining goodwill gestures with covert operations in conflict zones will increase manifold the chances of success. “Pakistan is carrying out aerial strikes in Balochistan. We have always enjoyed local support there but did not build on it. It is important to build on that goodwill today,” he said.

Kumawat cautions that while carrying out covert operations against Pakistan, New Delhi must keep in mind that it is in conflict with Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence and its military, and not its people. “If the people of Pakistan start feeling that the army and the non-state actors are not working in their interest, that will be our biggest victory,” he said.

Covert ops, however, do not offer a permanent solution to a problem that has festered over many decades, said Pillai. “Kashmir is the key,” he said. An officer who was part of many successful covert operations in the valley said if tourism is brought back, sports take place and development embraces Kashmir, India can even think of holding a plebiscite in the state. Will Pakistan hold a similar plebiscite in PoK? That day the war will be won.
Then this happened!





..............................................:india:..............................................
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
4,241
Likes
18,208
Country flag
I was reading the chapter about martyred Garud Nirala in the book by Shiv Aroor, the very same one mentioned by you earlier. No disrespect for the fallen, but if every account of the book is true, then there is some serious issues with training of SF in India. In that book, we could read that the operator had disregarded the repeated calls to take cover from his buddy and CO and charged directly into the enemy without cover. Yes, his direct charge without cover led to 2 kills and entrapment of other three but it cost his life.That one was avoidable.
Sometjme back in a CT op video we could hear one SF operator yelling at his buddy not to be a hero by charging without cover.
Such actions are justifiable if were RR ir Ghatak or anysuch comparatively less trained men, but Special Forces are meant to act with high precision, discipline in the field and not do Rambo acts.
I dont understand the revenge part aswell.

One fucking grenade coz the terrorist were stuck would have blown those terrorists..why would anyone charge... moreover why would anyone be so emotional about it?

I know in real things are different..but what were they expecting when getting deployed to Kashmir.
 

abingdonboy

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
8,082
Likes
33,765
Country flag
AFSOD is expected to serve as the main organisation responsible for carrying out special operations within and outside India.

If tomorrow terrorist attack happen in India either in military area or in civilian area, Whom govt will prefer to counter, AFSOD or NSG ??
SOD are a strategic asset to be used on external missions.

If there’s a terror attack in India NSG goes 100%, that is their entire mission in life. It is how they are organised and trained. It’s what all of their equipment is meant for. If you are going to send SOD then you may as well get rid of NSG.


IF SOD is done right it will be more than just a unit with commandos that are able to do CQB. It should be able to take part in missions of a strategic nature- capturing nuclear devices, intervention in foreign nations, capturing high value targets etc etc.


SOD would be something along the lines of a SSBN in terms of how they should be treated and viewed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top