Indian Special Forces (archived)

[12arya]

this controversy is still firing on all cylinders

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...before-sept-2016-rti/articleshow/69235076.cms
Army has no data on "surgical strikes" carried before Sept 2016: RTI
This was stated by the Directorate General of Military Operations (DGMOs) in a RTI reply, putting to rest the claim of UPA and Congress that six surgical strikes were conducted during the period of Manmohan Singh government.
JAMMU: Army has no data to suggest that surgical strikes were conducted by its troops across the Line of Control (LoC) before September 29, 2016, the day when such strikes were carried out in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK).

This was stated by the Directorate General of Military Operations (DGMOs) in a RTI reply, putting to rest the claim of UPA and Congress that six surgical strikes were conducted during the period of Manmohan Singh government.

"This section does not hold any data pertaining to surgical strikes if carried out before September 29, 2016," said Lt Col A D S Jasrotia at the Integrated Headquarters of MoD (Army).

The reply came in response to an RTI filed by Jammu-based activist Rohit Choudhary about the number of surgical strikes on Pakistan between 2004 and 2014, and after September 2014. He had also sought to know how many of those were successful.

"Indian army conducted surgical strikes along the LOC on 29 September 2016. No Indian soldier lost his life during surgical strikes", the officer of IHQ of Army's Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) said in the RTI reply.

Some Congress leaders including from former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh claimed that several surgical strikes were conducted by army during the previous UPA rule.

"Multiple surgical strikes took place during our tenure, too. For us, military operations were meant for strategic deterrence and giving a befitting reply to anti-India forces than to be used for vote garnering exercises", Singh had said in an interview to a newspaper. Congress leader Rajiv Shukla had told reporters at an AICC briefing last week that six surgical strikes were conducted during the period of Manmohan Singh government.

The BJP had questioned the claims and said the Congress had a habit of lying.

Union Minister V K Singh, a former army chief, on Saturday denied knowledge of a surgical strike during his tenure and accused the Congress of lying about it.

Taking to Twitter, he said, "Congress has a habit of lying. Will you please let me know which 'So-called Surgical Strike' are you attributing to my tenure as COAS (chief of army staff). Am sure you must have hired some Coupta to invent another story."

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

PARA SF .......................................................

 

[rohit b3]

this controversy is still firing on all cylinders

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...before-sept-2016-rti/articleshow/69235076.cms
Army has no data on "surgical strikes" carried before Sept 2016: RTI
This was stated by the Directorate General of Military Operations (DGMOs) in a RTI reply, putting to rest the claim of UPA and Congress that six surgical strikes were conducted during the period of Manmohan Singh government.
JAMMU: Army has no data to suggest that surgical strikes were conducted by its troops across the Line of Control (LoC) before September 29, 2016, the day when such strikes were carried out in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK).

This was stated by the Directorate General of Military Operations (DGMOs) in a RTI reply, putting to rest the claim of UPA and Congress that six surgical strikes were conducted during the period of Manmohan Singh government.

"This section does not hold any data pertaining to surgical strikes if carried out before September 29, 2016," said Lt Col A D S Jasrotia at the Integrated Headquarters of MoD (Army).

The reply came in response to an RTI filed by Jammu-based activist Rohit Choudhary about the number of surgical strikes on Pakistan between 2004 and 2014, and after September 2014. He had also sought to know how many of those were successful.

"Indian army conducted surgical strikes along the LOC on 29 September 2016. No Indian soldier lost his life during surgical strikes", the officer of IHQ of Army's Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) said in the RTI reply.

Some Congress leaders including from former Prime Minister Manmohan Singh claimed that several surgical strikes were conducted by army during the previous UPA rule.

"Multiple surgical strikes took place during our tenure, too. For us, military operations were meant for strategic deterrence and giving a befitting reply to anti-India forces than to be used for vote garnering exercises", Singh had said in an interview to a newspaper. Congress leader Rajiv Shukla had told reporters at an AICC briefing last week that six surgical strikes were conducted during the period of Manmohan Singh government.

The BJP had questioned the claims and said the Congress had a habit of lying.

Union Minister V K Singh, a former army chief, on Saturday denied knowledge of a surgical strike during his tenure and accused the Congress of lying about it.

Taking to Twitter, he said, "Congress has a habit of lying. Will you please let me know which 'So-called Surgical Strike' are you attributing to my tenure as COAS (chief of army staff). Am sure you must have hired some Coupta to invent another story."

You really think they would keep "Data" on Surgical strikes? Such "Raids"(as called in army language) have been conducted inside Pakistani soil since decades as and when required.

 

[vampyrbladez]

You really think they would keep "Data" on Surgical strikes? Such "Raids"(as called in army language) have been conducted inside Pakistani soil since decades as and when required.

Nope. 2016 was one of the first of it's kind.

 

[singhboy98]

You really think they would keep "Data" on Surgical strikes? Such "Raids"(as called in army language) have been conducted inside Pakistani soil since decades as and when required.

I think everyone here knows the difference between pre-2016 localised raids and the 2016 Surgical Strikes which had the full backing of the Government of India and hence the Republic of India.

 

[sthf]

You really think they would keep "Data" on Surgical strikes? Such "Raids"(as called in army language) have been conducted inside Pakistani soil since decades as and when required.

Congress's biggest mistake was to conflate cross border raids with surgical strikes.

Cross border raids have been happening for years now but the scope and scale of surgical strikes was unprecedented until Balakot. The difference between them is massive.

 

[itsme]

You really think they would keep "Data" on Surgical strikes? Such "Raids"(as called in army language) have been conducted inside Pakistani soil since decades as and when required.

To be precise raids across LOC prior to 2016 were only tactical in nature usually localized to a sector. But 2016 was strategic in nature conducted across multiple sectors simultaneously.

 

[rkhanna]

To be precise raids across LOC prior to 2016 were only tactical in nature usually localized to a sector. But 2016 was strategic in nature conducted across multiple sectors simultaneously.

Just because Multiple sectors or because PMO was involved these strikes became strategic ?

Even the balakot airstrike was not strategic .

 

[vampyrbladez]

Just because Multiple sectors or because PMO was involved these strikes became strategic ?

Even the balakot airstrike was not strategic .

This was sanctioned by the highest levels. Also in Balakot it was first time since 1971 that an IAF incursion into enemy territory and bombing raid had been conducted.

Anything else is pure bullshit!

 

[rkhanna]

9

This was sanctioned by the highest levels. Also in Balakot it was first time since 1971 that an IAF incursion into enemy territory and bombing raid had been conducted.

Anything else is pure bullshit!

You missed my point. All of what you said is true. But NONE of that means that they were Strategic in nature.

At the very least, We (us on this forum) should understand the difference between a tactical military action vs a strategic one. Both the Surgical Strike and the Balakot Air raid (even if the Strike was actually from the AF Op Planning desk Circa 2001) were tactical responses (via disproportional escalation) to OPFOR actions against us.

 

[vampyrbladez]

9

You missed my point. All of what you said is true. But NONE of that means that they were Strategic in nature.

At the very least, We (us on this forum) should understand the difference between a tactical military action vs a strategic one. Both the Surgical Strike and the Balakot Air raid (even if the Strike was actually from the AF Op Planning desk Circa 2001) were tactical responses (via disproportional escalation) to OPFOR actions against us.

If you go and bomb an enemy territory then it is indeed a strategic action akin to Israel bombing Gaza and Hezbollah.

Surgical strikes are different from cross border raids carried out by local commanders. Fog of war stuff.

 

[rkhanna]

If you go and bomb an enemy territory then it is indeed a strategic action akin to Israel bombing Gaza and Hezbollah.

Surgical strikes are different from cross border raids carried out by local commanders. Fog of war stuff.

No. absolutely not. We can get into a long winded debate on what strategic action / outcome means But lets move on. This is the wrong thread. and too many threads are getting of course on this forum.


PS Israelis Bombing Hamas / Hezbolla is tactical. Israel Bombing the Nuclear enrichment plant in iran and sending the program back 10-15 years was strategic.

 

[vampyrbladez]

No. absolutely not. We can get into a long winded debate on what strategic action / outcome means But lets move on. This is the wrong thread. and too many threads are getting of course on this forum.


PS Israelis Bombing Hamas / Hezbolla is tactical. Israel Bombing the Nuclear enrichment plant in iran and sending the program back 10-15 years was strategic.

Then you will claim war in Afghanistan and Iraq is also tactical. Campaign against ISIS is also tactical!

 

[rkhanna]

Then you will claim war in Afghanistan and Iraq is also tactical. Campaign against ISIS is also tactical!

Do you even understand the fallacies in your argument ?

Like I said we can make a new thread or move on but this is the wrong thread mano

 

[Bhadra]

Just because Multiple sectors or because PMO was involved these strikes became strategic ?

Even the balakot airstrike was not strategic .

What makes any operation "strategic" in nature is the desired and resultant impact or outcome of the operation.

If Balakot was meant to call Pakistani nuclear bluff or if the operation has resulted in Pakistan being restrained from carrying out threat of a nuclear retaliation - then the operation was "strategic".

If Balakot was intended to covey that any Pakistani terrorist attack in India will be militarily answered, and if the massage has created the impact, the operation was strategic.

If balakot was meant to convey that Masood Azhar is an international terrorist and if International community does declare him so, India will exercise Military options, and if that has created an impact - the operation can be termed as strategic.

Strategic impact might not necessarily be military in nature.

 

[rkhanna]

What makes any operation "strategic" in nature is the desired and resultant impact or outcome of the operation.

If Balakot was meant to call Pakistani nuclear bluff or if the operation has resulted in Pakistan being restrained from carrying out threat of a nuclear retaliation - then the operation was "strategic".

If Balakot was intended to covey that any Pakistani terrorist attack in India will be militarily answered, and if the massage has created the impact, the operation was strategic. (CIT J/X)

If balakot was meant to convey that Masood Azhar is an international terrorist and if International community does declare him so, India will exercise Military options, and if that has created an impact - the operation can be termed as strategic.

Strategic impact might not necessarily be military in nature.

Great Points! that was what I was getting at.

Now Was the PURPOSE of Initiation of Balakot Strategic or Tactical?

I.e Was the end results you mentioned (and ALL did happen in the Geopolitical Sphere) the actual intension or was that just the fortunate byproduct?

PS. though I would like to disagree on the last point. Declaring MA an international terrorist is a strategic Outcome from a National Security Perspective.

Declaring Military Retaliation for Terror Strikes in India is STILL a Tactical Response. As long as these strikes are in Response to an Incident they will remain Tactical. By enforcing ROE limitations to pursue non military targets is still in the realm of tactical

IF say India expanded the playing field - i.e Declare JEM and ilk as nothing more part of the PA ORBATand pursue operations against the Pakistani Army and the infrastructure of their Fauji Foundation - then we dwell under the sphere of Strategic as we have now enforced a paradigm shift. We dont even need to be direct.

The IB is littered farms owned or given to retired PA officers which are used primarily as a logistical drop against India. Why dont we target them? Why dont we target the 100s of Businesses run by Relatives of Paki Generals. Or have a concentrated asymetrical offensive (including Cyber) against the Ruling elite and their kin?

You expand the scope of the battlefield and you have achieved something strategic. i.e take the initiative. As long as we play defense we will still be in the realm of tactical for the most part

Balakot on its own is still a half measure.

LASTLY - lets end this here. PLEASE its derailed the thread enough

 

[itsme]

Just because Multiple sectors or because PMO was involved these strikes became strategic ?

Even the balakot airstrike was not strategic .

Yeah, I was just saying that for comparison sake. Surgical trikes or Balakot strike was not purely strategic.

But the scale of Op, the units involved, the casualties inflicted and the overall escalation level all this was very huge and also new compared to the previous ops conducted prior to 2016.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

The naval helicopter slithered down a team of #MARCOS frm rooftop of the #Hotel.

Thereafter, the team moved into a particular location of the hotel & rescued the hostages

Casualty evacuation and prisoner handling drills were also carried out during the exercise.

 

[Kchontha]

Most of them are armed with mp5 and corner shot.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[rkhanna]

Most of them are armed with mp5 and corner shot.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

Yea Marcos CQB SOP from the 90s