Indian Special Forces (archived)

[Unknowncommando 2]

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[rkhanna]

Will have to look them up.



Fully agree. With subsonic loads the penetration of surfaces is also severely mitigated reducing the possibility of injuring non-targets. It's kind of sad but it appears the first unit in India to adopt such compact AR15s (though it is a 9mm version) is actually OCTOPUS, and not any military unit:

View attachment 35015

AR-15 CQBRs are pretty much gold standard for most Hostage-intervention/SWAT teams in West nowadays. Slowly but surely, it will catch up here as well. We mustn't make the mistake of thinking there is a difference in philosophy here - there isn't. We just haven't caught up yet with the way things are evolving,

We followed Western units when MP-5 was gold standard. It isn't going to change today...we just take a bit too much time to adapt & change is all.

Think the picture of the octopus soldier is with a 9mm M4 .. not the 556

Also the NSG has plenty short barrelled (13inch) SIGs

But yea your post is correct

 

[abingdonboy]

View attachment 34963 View attachment 34964 View attachment 34965 View attachment 34966
The naval helicopter slithered down a team of #MARCOS frm rooftop of the #Hotel.

Thereafter, the team moved into a particular location of the hotel & rescued the hostages

Casualty evacuation and prisoner handling drills were also carried out during the exercise.

Modest improvement in gear but their drills are very poor- holding in the “funnel of death” like that, gripping the magazine and the pi$$ poor trigger discipline (as usual) is very underwhelming.

They are also armed other equally capable room intervention weapons such as M4A1 5.56mm NATO Assault Rifle and IMI Tavor 5.56mm NATO Assault Rifle Series.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

That’s why I said CARBINE. The Tavor is 5.56mm but it isn’t a carbine, it really isn’t suited for CQB like this.

Just team give them the SCAR-L and be done with it (doubt HK will sell 416 to India).

India gets new Special Ops Division that can cripple targets miles inside enemy territory
​

http://idrw.org/india-gets-new-spec...ets-miles-inside-enemy-territory/#more-201048 .

With an aim to add strategic heft to its operational ability in conventional war and anti-terror operations, India has set the ball rolling on the creation of a Special Forces Division. Major General A.K. Dhingra has been appointed as the first chief of the Armed Forces Special Operations Division, clearance for which was given by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during the Combined Commanders’ Conference in September 2018.

Along with Dhingra, a highly accomplished colonel has also been appointed, and they have been tasked with setting up the organisation, which will have its own set of equipment, top sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint. The proposed new division will have the capability to carry out crippling attacks against critical enemy targets miles away. It will have about 3,000 commandos drawn from the Special Forces of the Army, Marine Commando unit (MARCOS) of the Navy and Garud of the Air Force.

State of India’s special forces

The idea to have such a division, earlier to be known as Special Operations Command, was mooted by the Naresh Chandra committee set up in 2011.The division will work under the Integrated Defence Staff (IDS), responsible for synergising the functioning of the three forces and headed by a Lt General-rank officer.

While the Army has a strength of around 6,000 special forces personnel, both Navy and the IAF have around 1,000 each.As of now, the three special forces work under their own organisations, but specific units will be brought under the IDS to train and carry out specific high-value missions. Over the last few years, focus has been given to the needs of the special forces — be it as new equipment, including assault rifles and long-range sniper guns, or enhancing night operational ability.

Sources said specific units of the three services’ special forces will be allocated to the division on a rotational basis for a specified period of time.“It will be on rational basis and over a period of time all the personnel from the special forces of the three services will be able to operate jointly,” a source said.

Officers’ responsibilities

Top sources said a lot of thought went into the selection of the officers to head this new division.Maj. Gen. Dhingra, a Sri Lankan ops veteran, has been the commander of India’s only independent Para Brigade, and has served as the defence attaché in Washington. The concept of this division is also influenced from the US, which has the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC).

The newly-appointed officers have been asked to form the structured organisation by November-end, which will also include selecting where the headquarters will be based and what kind of equipment is needed.

The headquarters is likely to come up near an existing para centre, sources said.

Welcome step

Lt Gen. Satish Dua (retd), former chief of the IDS, welcomed the move.“Such integration will be very helpful in case India has to launch a special forces operation in the future where one needs expertise of Marcos, Garud and Special Forces Commandos together. It is a good to integrate special forces for operations. They will train and live together, which will help them to pick up the best practices of one another,” Dua told ThePrint.

Best news of this is that the first leader is going to be a SF Officer, the worry was always that it would be some infantry (or worse) commander with little
to zero Knowledge would be given this command.

Very good to have an SF officer and a battle hardened one at that in this position.

They have a chance to start from scratch and I hope they have an ambitious plan. First order of business should be ensuring that the force of world class from the outset. Give them every element they need- training, equipment, infrastructure etc etc that they need.

This should be India’s ST6/DEVGRU, on call 24/7 to respond to any and every emergency that can be imagined. In ST6 operators are on standby to be return to base and be wheels up within an hour. In their barracks they are given entire walk-in lockers each that they can fill to their liking and in them are all the kit they would ever need for any mission, they have ready bags marked “desert”,”mountain”, “HT” etc etc. Hope the leadership appreciates this force needs to have a global outlook and needs to be a true strategic asset.


Fingers crossed, this could be the beginning of great things.


And remember, whilst CONgress sat on these basic things for years Modi has delivered them within just 5 years.

 

[Gessler]

Think the picture of the octopus soldier is with a 9mm M4 .. not the 556

Yes - already said it in my post.

" first unit in India to adopt such compact AR15s (though it is a 9mm version) is actually OCTOPUS "

 

[rkhanna]

Yes - already said it in my post.

" first unit in India to adopt such compact AR15s (though it is a 9mm version) is actually OCTOPUS "

my bad mano. This what happens when you use your phone to read !

 

[rkhanna]

Best news of this is that the first leader is going to be a SF Officer,

If stuff is to be believed Offsaar Dingra wrote a big Chunk of the SF playbook in COIN and FID warfare in Lanka. Trying to get permission from my Uncles to share some of the stories.

This should be India’s ST6/DEVGRU, on call 24/7 to respond to any and every emergency that can be imagined.

Actually Delta does alot more missions than DevGru without turning it into a hollywood circus ;p

That being said I 100% prefer a Combined Single Element SOF Task Force that has capabilities of Garud and Marcos and Paras Integral.

Keep in mind this is a Tier I unit - Counter Terrorism is THE primary Mission. These boys (and hoping some girls) will live breath and eat Sub Conventional Warfare.

But the need for a Tier 2 SOCOM to house all Vanilla SOF elements as well as Logistics and Support still remains the need of the hour.

Looks like SG will revert back to RAW with less "loans" to the Army in the future.

 

[Bhadra]

.

Best news of this is that the first leader is going to be a SF Officer, the worry was always that it would be some infantry (or worse) commander with little
to zero Knowledge would be given this command.

These are narrow and eschewed views on the subject. "SF" all over the world are basically Infantry or a form of evolved Infantry. If not, they forego right to be given command of Infantry formations. If not, they have no right of intake and reversal of even their guys to Infantry. Once one is in command stream, he is considered fit to command all arms formation. Being in command of SOD will not make any Maj Gen fit to command an army corps. This kind of attitudinal narrowness and deficiency certainly has created an adverse situation for Indian Army Officer cadre. This way the Agra generals would simply not fit into any command stream but highest being Commander SOD. Remember, any one who thought he was a cat's whisker being away from the tag of Infantry always suffered and for good reasons. Leave aside Infantry, this view will make you detaching from Army itself.

Very good to have an SF officer and a battle hardened one at that in this position.

It is sad if you consider Infantry officers to be less battle hardened. Tell me any theatre where SF are employed but infantry is not and they lack in Infantry tasks? It was not for nothing that some infantry officers including a CO gave their lives to save the ass of Dalbir and party from Jaffna University where this officer (was not there) was said to be battle hardened..

This should be India’s ST6/DEVGRU, on call 24/7 to respond to any and every emergency that can be imagined. In ST6 operators are on standby to be return to base and be wheels up within an hour. In their barracks they are given entire walk-in lockers each that they can fill to their liking and in them are all the kit they would ever need for any mission, they have ready bags marked “desert”,”mountain”, “HT” etc etc. Hope the leadership appreciates this force needs to have a global outlook and needs to be a true strategic asset.

If one has such jaundiced views, what to talk of global - one can not think beyond the linyard.

My suggestion is that this organisation should not create conditions that Army starts thinking again of having their specific SF forces.

 

[rkhanna]

One additional thought.

I think it is imperative that the SOD have their own selection process - Doesnt matter if they are drawing recruits from MARCOS/SF/Garud. - It will give rise to a new integral culture and ethos of the unit and will go along way in building up the Unit.

This way you are getting the best of the best and divorcing them from the parent units at the same time.

SOD has to be a brand new beast with no overhang from the legacies.

And I hope to God that like the NSG they dont rotate the soldiers back (unless its a RTU for dereliction of some kind)

 

[armyofhind]

Is SOFREP still a thing or has it changed to NEWSREP now?

 

[armyofhind]

One additional thought.

I think it is imperative that the SOD have their own selection process - Doesnt matter if they are drawing recruits from MARCOS/SF/Garud. - It will give rise to a new integral culture and ethos of the unit and will go along way in building up the Unit.

This way you are getting the best of the best and divorcing them from the parent units at the same time.

SOD has to be a brand new beast with no overhang from the legacies.

And I hope to God that like the NSG they dont rotate the soldiers back (unless its a RTU for dereliction of some kind)

If the SOD is meant to be the Indian Iteration of JSOC, then I'm pretty sure there is going to be a vetting and selection process based upon peer review as is present in other Tier 1 units across the world.

 

[rkhanna]

Is SOFREP still a thing or has it changed to NEWSREP now?

Now newsrep. Same writers and content

If the SOD is meant to be the Indian Iteration of JSOC, then I'm pretty sure there is going to be a vetting and selection process based upon peer review as is present in other Tier 1 units across the world.

I have learned that in India assumptions are the mother of all fuckups

 

[abingdonboy]

One additional thought.

I think it is imperative that the SOD have their own selection process - Doesnt matter if they are drawing recruits from MARCOS/SF/Garud. - It will give rise to a new integral culture and ethos of the unit and will go along way in building up the Unit.

This way you are getting the best of the best and divorcing them from the parent units at the same time.

SOD has to be a brand new beast with no overhang from the legacies.

And I hope to God that like the NSG they dont rotate the soldiers back (unless its a RTU for dereliction of some kind)

If the SOD is meant to be the Indian Iteration of JSOC, then I'm pretty sure there is going to be a vetting and selection process based upon peer review as is present in other Tier 1 units across the world.

Now newsrep. Same writers and content



I have learned that in India assumptions are the mother of all fuckups

I’m 100% sure that there will be vetting. Just to be recommended for the SOD the operators will need to have been cleared by their COs. This already happens when troops from regular units want to go for SF selection, they can’t unless their CO approved it.

I’m also fairly certain that the command will be a deputation force which has its positives and negatives. Ideally I’d like to see the command staff and senior NCOs/instructors be permanent at the very least. Organisational knowledge is important and I’d like SOD to create its own culture and excellences to make it distinct from
The parent arms.

Btw NSG is working to make deputation period 6 years vs 3 years currently.

 

[IndiaRising]

what's the point of creating SOD if you are not going to grant them purchasing powers independent of MoD and senior army leadership? they need to have access to the most advanced equipment and for that, they need to be assured of no interference from Delhi.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I doubt anything will change after the formation of this division.
The individual branches will retain bulk of their special forces and employ them as per their individual requirements.
The budget of this new organisation will come within MOD budget only.
Also if this special divison regarding foreign intervention I think there will be overlap with SG which comes under RAW.
Alternatively if they are employed within India for anti-hijacking and anti-terrorist missions then there will be overlap with NSG which comes under home ministry.

 

[aditya g]

....Basai would be better for the HQ.... Special place for training.:biggrin2:

Please elaborate?

.................

 

[rkhanna]

what's the point of creating SOD if you are not going to grant them purchasing powers independent of MoD and senior army leadership? they need to have access to the most advanced equipment and for that, they need to be assured of no interference from Delhi.

The Command will report directly to the IDS - Should come with a special budget allocation to bye pass a bunch of redtape from MOD. So i am hearing

I doubt anything will change after the formation of this division.
The individual branches will retain bulk of their special forces and employ them as per their individual requirements.
The budget of this new organisation will come within MOD budget only.
Also if this special divison regarding foreign intervention I think there will be overlap with SG which comes under RAW.
Alternatively if they are employed within India for anti-hijacking and anti-terrorist missions then there will be overlap with NSG which comes under home ministry.

I think most people including media commentary by a bunch of ex service people are missing the trees for the forest.

This is a Tier I counter Terrorism unit along the lines of JSOC or the SAS CRWW/Increment. Implications are as follows:

1. the unit will be active in peace time as an offensive, pre-emptive weapon against Terrorism and associated infrastructure
2. Being a military unit ofcourse its budget will be a sub section of MOD budget but how its disclosed and utilized does not have to be the same if the chain of command is IDS -> CSS -> PMO
3. This unit is not a Conventional War Time unit - though they will most likely be employed during wartime to pursue HVT targets (as during peacetime thats a Capability they would have built up)
4. There is no Overlap with SG - There is a clear demarkation and need for SG tasking and SOD tasking. SG operators operate in ones and twos and deep undercover. SOD is a hammer - both will be used together and both have different synergies to bring to the table. (Example - study the differences and utilizations of JSOC, CIA SAD, and JSOC-ISA)
5) Conventional Special Operation Units should now continue their training and focus and budget allocation for conventional war duties and should have their own command and logistics in place. PLEASE dont confuse counter terrorism and conventional war duties - its apples and oranges
6) NSG again has a complete different CT/HRT tasking that has nothing to do with SOD - while there will be a capability overlap NSG is a defensiveb unit SOD will be an offensive unit.
(example - NSG will be tasked with all CT/HRT within India - SOD will be tasked outside India - ala Kandahar hijacking - covertly and overtly - NSG is a purely overt unit working in a contained environment - SOD would work in a denied environment with part of the unit being Covert)

Gayi Bhains Pani Men ......

Basai would be better for the HQ.... Special place for training.:biggrin2:

Why? Delta Operates out of Fort Bragg - that houses SFG, 82/101 Airborne and AirMobile Division, 75h Ranger Regiment, the 160th SOAR and various other elements of ASOC and SOCOM

DevGru operates out of Dam Neck and in close proximity to Little Creek Virginia - Home of the US Navy Amphibious base - SCWW crews, Swimmer Delivery Vehicle Crews, and other Naval Special Operations Logistics and Units.

There is good synergies to keeping your Tier I unit close to its support infrastructure.

 

[Shivansh Atri]

I have a query. How will the AFSOD work? Will all three Special Forces (PARA SF, MARCOS and Garud) come under this or will it be a seperate body? And will the operators serving in AFSOD no longer belong to their OG units?

 

[Bhadra]

There certainly is a cat amongst the pigeons -

To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end

 

[rkhanna]

I have a query. How will the AFSOD work? Will all three Special Forces (PARA SF, MARCOS and Garud) come under this or will it be a seperate body? And will the operators serving in AFSOD no longer belong to their OG units?

Very little clarity as of yet .

My understanding is that it is a new unit and will be staffed with personnel from all 3 services.

My ideal wish will be that this is a permanent posting and not a deputation like NSG.

Enough data with the way SG works to know the short comings of that

 

[sr1]

NSG at Mt.Everest

A seven-member team of the National Security Guard (NSG), led by Lt Col J P Kumar, successfully unfurled the Indian flag at the 8,848-metre tall peak at about 7 am Thursday.

"The team adopted the southeastern approach via south Col in Solukhumbhu region of Nepal," the force said in a statement.

NSG Director General Sudeep Lakhtakia congratulated the team, saying "Everest demands doggedness, tenacity, perseverance, courage and multiple skills to survive in toughest conditions. The NSG commandos have all these qualities".