Indian Special Forces (archived)

[KS]

Baba am had made it already clear that iam not at all supporting congress in ma previous posts.I was just telling the flaws during the kandahar episode

And baba made it clear he doesnt blame the congress, but the pathetic logistics & equipment of NSG for that..

I also made it clear that the Govt does not and cannot micromanage how the NSG organizes its logistics and how it executes a mission. it's upto the NSG high command to do it.

So stop blaming the Govt for NSG using the public transit.

 

[pmaitra]

Jay,

Forget about rants and IQ and all that stuff.

What would you have done if you were the PM of India when the Kathmandu-to-Kandahar Hijack took place?

 

[KS]

...

What would you have done if you were the PM of India when the Kathmandu-to-Kandahar Hijack took place?

And in the process conquer Afghanistan and make it India's 29th state...No shit bro...and that's because the two clips just got over..

 

[pmaitra]

And in the process conquer Afghanistan and make it India's 29th state...No shit bro...and that's because the two clips just got over..

If he tried to act like Chuck Norris, the Taliban would have chucked his ass into that hijacked plane for sure.

Jokes apart, I think once that plane left Indian territory or airspace, our position was severely weakened.

 

[Poseidon]

All Political parties are scumbags.

 

[KS]

.....

Jokes apart, I think once that plane left Indian territory or airspace, our position was severely weakened.

I'm still waiting for Jay 'I-am-a-SEAL' Atl to show me on the map how we could have reached Kandahar skirting Iran & Pakistan without A2A refuellers & strike aircraft.

 

[JayATL]

aah getting into Paki mode , are we ?

Stop that, it stinks.

I gave you a map, just tell me how you can posible reach Kandahar skirting Iran & Pakistan.

BTW did you not say the US, the intergalactic superpower never negotiates with terrorists ?..Sleep tight with the knowledge they are negotiating with medieval goat fuckers.

first , you BJP never had any plans and never asked anycountries help on a possible military strike in afghanistan. From the get go it was to given in....

second, they had a chance in amritsar had then planned it correctly, given they knew that aircraft would have to stop over there or mumbai or Jammu by 6:04 pm. 40 mins that the aircraft was sitting in amritsar-would have given time to execute a special ops. Btw- india has a special team that practiced . in charge of High jacks back in the 90's too.

third- it could have seeked saudia arabia and a then freindly Iraq's help, shoot china would helped , allowed yo to fly over. refuel covertly to score points with India....point still remains that they never planned for a special ops operation period.

Bottom lin your BJP pussied out and was incompetent ...

 

[JayATL]

Jay,

Forget about rants and IQ and all that stuff.

What would you have done if you were the PM of India when the Kathmandu-to-Kandahar Hijack took place?

Kandahar case, there was also a lag-time for the Indian response system to get its act together. Though the signal intimating the hijacking of the aircraft was available to the Delhi ATC at 4.40 PM on December 24, the Crisis Management Committee chaired by the Cabinet Secretary seems neither to have met nor communicated with candidate response airports, where the plane could be landing, in the succeeding two hours.8 Since the origin of the aircraft was Kathmandu, and since the ATC radar gave indications that it was moving North-Westwards, just two options were available, in the order of increasing gravity and risk. One was to identify the candidate airports the hijackers might choose and get at least local authority and force staged there, with a clear mandate, or at least sufficient forewarning. Why the cabinet crisis system failed to specify the mandate of local authorities (meaning the District Collector and Superintendent of Police/Commissioner/Inspector General of Police) of Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Mumbai or Jammu till 6.04 pm, when it was clear that Amritsar was to be the staging area, is not clear. At 6.04 PM, Amritsar received the aircraft's landing signals.

Clearly, the bureaucratic establishment did not conduct the basic intellectual exercise of projecting the possible destinations. Worse, despite the Cabinet Secretary being present in New Delhi, there were no orders available to the Amritsar local authority for the 40 minutes the aircraft stayed on tarmac. In fact, the Director General of Punjab Police was not contacted at all; he was left to collect the news from Television at 6.00 pm, by his own admission.9 That reflects also on his poor intelligence coordination. New Delhi was clearly out of character as a national capital responding to a national emergency: nobody assumed responsibility in these crucial two hours after which the Captain of IC 814 was forced to fly off across national borders to Lahore in Pakistan. The Flight Captain was the only one in charge from the Indian side at that point.

 

[SpArK]

Sory for going offtopic but where is Mr Vajpayee these days?

 

[JayATL]

Listening to some here , if this hijack took place today... per their " get down on our knees and give into terrorists tendency"... India would have no options. ( if afghanistan was not under US rule)

 

[KS]

first , you BJP never had any plans and never asked anycountries help on a possible military strike in afghanistan. From the get go it was to given in....

So it has come from India's inability to not asking for others to help ? Nice goal post shift.

BTW your US even refused to help us regardin the hijacking investigaions...FAT chance they would have helped in the hijacking itself.

The Hindu : News / The India Cables : India sought help in IC-814 case; FBI said ‘no fishing’.

second, they had a chance in amritsar had then planned it correctly, given they knew that aircraft would have to stop over there or mumbai or Jammu by 6:04 pm. 40 mins that the aircraft was sitting in amritsar-would have given time to execute a special ops.

Sigh...this was the subject of a very long dscussion with ALBY..read the thread fully.

fthird- it could have seeked saudia arabia and a then freindly Iraq's help, shoot hina would helped , allowed yo to fly over. refuel covertly to score points with India....point still remains that they never planned for a special ops operation period.

LOL...Wherever you are genius be it Iraq or KSA , you need to fly over Iran & Pakistan...

BTW Iraq in 1999 was under the thumb of the US...

So again, you fail in saying how without the airspace of Iran & Pakistan and without A2A re-fuellers, no C-130 calibre a/c and not strike fighter we could have pulled the stunt off.

FAIL.

Bottom lin your BJP pussied out and was incompetent ...

Wrong , YET AGAIN in a long list of FAILS.

They had no other options and it was the APC who authorised the prisoner swap..not NDA/BJP.

 

[JayATL]

So it has come from India's inability to not asking for others to help ? Nice goal post shift.

BTW your US even refused to help us regardin the hijacking investigaions...FAT chance they would have helped in the hijacking itself.

The Hindu : News / The India Cables : India sought help in IC-814 case; FBI said 'no fishing'.



Sigh...this was the subject of a very long dscussion with ALBY..read the thread fully.




LOL...Wherever you are genius be it Iraq or KSA , you need to fly over Iran & Pakistan...

BTW Iraq in 1999 was under the thumb of the US...

So again, you fail in saying how without the airspace of Iran & Pakistan and without A2A re-fuellers, no C-130 calibre a/c and not strike fighter we could have pulled the stunt off.

FAIL.

what goal post shift? It is fact that India never asked any country to seek permission to fly over or refuel. what part of the fact that a military special ops was never on the books do you not get? ... getting to afganistan from china or pakistan or iran was never asked for. I'll give you Pakistan never would help... but nobody in the govt asked any other countries. the damn aircraft sat there for only what 9 days?

iraq was under US thumb in 1999? what history books do you read? ...what is under US thumb mean? there were only snactions and no fly zones over northern ( kurd) iraq imposed .

ROFL so when BJP fucks up , its someones else's fault.. but when MMS does the biggest deal , its not to his credit... you are a joke .... and as I said all platitudes... btw who the hell is APC.. and was not BJP the ruling party during that time?

 

[KS]

what goal post shift?

Goal post shift is India not just zooming across the airspace of Iran & Pakistan to asking their permission

.

It is fact that India never asked any country to seek permission to fly over or refuel. what part of the fact that a military special ops was never on the books do you not get? ... getting to afganistan from china or pakistan or iran was never asked for. I'll give you Pakistan never would help... but nobody in the govt asked any other countries. the damn aircraft sat there for only what 9 days?

And how do you know..psychic ?

BTW read this..

A small NSG unit was hidden on the aircraft that carried the Indian negotiating team to Kandahar, but officials ruled out any use of force after seeing that the hijacked aircraft was surrounded by Taliban forces.

Case study: Indian Airlines Christmas Eve hijacking

There are many things that go into these type of situations that it beyond your armchair-general level of comprehension. As I said already, not everybody with a gin can become a rambo.

iraq was under US thumb in 1999? what history books do you read? ...what is under US thumb mean? there were only snactions and no fly zones over northern ( kurd) iraq imposed .

irrelevant to even discuss as Iraq does not share a border with Afghanistan.

ROFL so when BJP fucks up , its someones else's fault.. but when MMS does the biggest deal , its not to his credit... you are a joke .... and as I said all platitudes...

Again it was not BJP which fucked up. We had no other options at that time ..As simple as that and the All party conference of which MMS was also a member unanimously approved the release of terrorists. So get the fact straight before yapping here.

 

[JayATL]

BJP member who worked closely on the Hijack said " Could the Kandahar episode have ended any other way? Were an Indian aircraft to be hijacked again, would we respond any differently? Not really. As a nation we do not have the guts to stand up to terrorism. We cannot take hits and suffer casualties. We start counting our dead even before a battle has been won or lost. We make a great show of honouring those who die on the battlefield and lionise brave hearts of history, but we do not want our children to follow in their footsteps.

We are, if truth be told, a nation of cowards who don't have the courage to admit their weakness ..."

Kanchan Gupta, dailypioneer.com

 

[JayATL]

Goal post shift is India not just zooming across the airspace of Iran & Pakistan to asking their permission

.

And how do you know..psychic ?

BTW read this..



Case study: Indian Airlines Christmas Eve hijacking

There are many things that go into these type of situations that it beyond your armchair-general level of comprehension. As I said already, not everybody with a gin can become a rambo.




irrelevant to even discuss as Iraq does not share a border with Afghanistan.



Again it was not BJP which fucked up. We had no other options at that time ..As simple as that and the All party conference of which MMS was also a member unanimously approved the release of terrorists. So get the fact straight before yapping here.

who said that india was to zoom across other countries without permission? how freaking daft is that? and how do I know they never asked permission? because every account from govt I have read up never says they asked permissio nor did it cross their mind. small contigent of NSG was to protect the babus , was it jaswant ingh who went to make the trade offs?...nobody sends a small contignet if they wanted to in all honesty go for a special ops. see US attack and what they came with...

 

[KS]

BJP member who worked closely on the Hijack said " Could the Kandahar episode have ended any other way? Were an Indian aircraft to be hijacked again, would we respond any differently? Not really. As a nation we do not have the guts to stand up to terrorism. We cannot take hits and suffer casualties. We start counting our dead even before a battle has been won or lost. We make a great show of honouring those who die on the battlefield and lionise brave hearts of history, but we do not want our children to follow in their footsteps.

We are, if truth be told, a nation of cowards who don't have the courage to admit their weakness ..."

Kanchan Gupta, dailypioneer.com

So again it has come from BJP is daft , to whole India ?

These emotional rhetoric will no transport 100 of your commandoes to Kandahar and bring them back. You need equipment which India lacked that time.

Period.

And lemme tell you a secret of Indian politics - if BJP had gone ahead and had this turned ugly - which it most probably would have - then the whole nation would have said - BJP tried to macho and killed 175 innocent Indians..Those bloody evil Hindu nationalists...

And yeah we do have our moments of glory...the better part of valor is disretion - knowing when and where to pick up a fight...

 

[KS]

who said that india was to zoom across other countries without permission? how freaking daft is that? and how do I know they never asked permission? because every account from govt I have read up never says they asked permissio nor did it cross their mind. small contigent of NSG was to protect the babus , was it jaswant ingh who went to make the trade offs?...nobody sends a small contignet if they wanted to in all honesty go for a special ops. see US attack and what they came with...

read it AGAIN.

And dont compare with Op.Geronimo..that's by far the dumbest thing you ever said.

On the contrary read this - News Hounds: The United States Doesn't Negotiate With Terrorists?

Every freaking nation on earth at one point of time have negotiated with terrorists if the conditions were not in their favour...US or UK or Israel or Spain..or Germany...every darn one of them.India is no special here...

 

[JayATL]

So again it has come from BJP is daft , to whole India ?

These emotional rhetoric will no transport 100 of your commandoes to Kandahar and bring them back. You need equipment which India lacked that time.

Period.

And lemme tell you a secret of Indian politics - if BJP had gone ahead and had this turned ugly - which it most probably would have - then the whole nation would have said - BJP tried to macho and killed 175 innocent Indians..Those bloody evil Hindu nationalists...

And yeah we do have our moments of glory...the better part of valor is disretion - knowing when and where to pick up a fight...

the blaming of whole india was a quote aka not my quote.

BJP scerwed up from the get go. the buck stops at the ruling party's desk...

bottom line is that per your expressed sentiment, India forever will give into terrorists.

 

[KS]

BJP scerwed up from the get go. the buck stops at the ruling party's desk...

There was no other option to save the 176 Indians. AND ALL THE POLITICAL PARTIES SUPPORTED THAT

bottom line is that per your expressed sentiment, India forever will give into terrorists.

Again wrong..In this case, specifically, there was no other alternative.

 

[ejazr]

The topic is not about the hijacking which was a disaster and many things could have been done to tackle it. For example, while the aircraft was in Indian airspace, or in Amritsar airport, negotiations for fuel and food for passengers could be done. And UAE was another friendly state where action could have been taken. Keep in mind that the release of those three prisoners resulted in saving 150 odd passengers, but those three went on to form terrorist organisations like JeM that resulted in the deaths of 100s more. The western countries had been affected by terrorist hijackings of all kinds for a long time until they came up with a policy of no negotiations with terrorists. That meant even if passengers were killed. And once or twice this happened but after that, the terrorists new that they will be dead no matter what and that this method could never be used to negotiate their aims. That is the message that India should have sent to the hijackers.

But the topic here is the issue where the Vajpayee govt. didnt' react to solid intelligence that Pakistani irregulars were infiltrating into India. And this is not just an issue with BJP, its a structural issue. The NSG could not reach Amritsar in time even after the place was there for 5 hours. In 2008, the NSG again took more than a day to reach Mumbai. Does the NSG have to wait for a political decision to move in? When a mass infiltration like Kargil is occurring how can we force the political leadership to NOT be a roadblock or an impediment in taking counter measures. Should more autonomy be given to armed forces and intelligence agencies to take decisions. Lets get some constructive criticism going instead of just BJP bashing.